Conference Realignments - Take 2

[Nodak78]

Can you say. P4,  G6 or G7.  Some fcs drops to Dll.

[JohnboyND7]

4 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

Can you say. P4,  G6 or G7.  Some fcs drops to Dll.

No one is dropping to D2 ever lol. They'd be giving up their shot at basketball money. 

[SWSiouxMN]

 

 

[bison73]

23 hours ago, UND1983 said:

What does UND have to do with what I wrote?  I said NDSU is supposedly full funded at FCS level.  They are not at the FBS level, because they are not FBS.  

Thats obvious so whats your point?

[bison73]

13 hours ago, jdub27 said:

For 2019:
UND gave out $5.5 million though 208 full equivalencies to 328 student athletes.
NDSU gave out $4.8 million 180 full equivalencies to 323 student athletes.
 

Further details:
UND gave $3.1 million to 176 males (116.5 full equivalancies) and $2.3 million to 152 females (91.5 equivalencies). 56-57% going to men with the remainder to women

NDSU gave $3.0 million to 204 males (111 full equivalancies) and $1.8 million to 119 females (69 full equivalancies). 62-63% going to men with the remainder to women

Adding 20 additional scholarships to the mens side would officially have NDSU's athletic department giving twice as much student aid to men vs. women.

EDIT: Removed UND 2020 info and added 2019 info for a better comparison

Fact is UND is not fully funded for all sports. Or provide a link for when that happened.

[FSSD]

1 hour ago, bison73 said:

Fact is UND is not fully funded for all sports. Or provide a link for when that happened.

I am sure that I have something off, when I add up the max allowed by sport for mens and womens for UND and NDSU.  I have the following:

Men:

School	Football	Hockey	Wrestling	Baseball	Basketball	Cross/Track	Golf	Tennis	Total
North Dakota	63	18			13	12.6	4.5	4.5	115.6
North Dakota State	63		9.9	11.7	13	12.6	4.5	4.5	119.2

Women:

School	Basketball	Cross	Golf	Soccer	Softball	Tennis	Volleyball	Total
North Dakota	15	18	6	14	12	8	12	85
North Dakota State	15	18	6	14	12		12	77

Total For All Sports:

School	Total
North Dakota	200.6
North Dakota State	196.2

Then looking at Jdub27 numbers it looks like UND is 7.4 above the max and NDSU is 16.2 below the max.   I must be missing something here.  But, I am not sure what? 

For 2019:
UND gave out $5.5 million though 208 full equivalencies to 328 student athletes.
NDSU gave out $4.8 million 180 full equivalencies to 323 student athletes.

[SiouxHawkGuy]

NDSU sucks

[FSSD]

8 hours ago, FSSD said:

I am sure that I have something off, when I add up the max allowed by sport for mens and womens for UND and NDSU.  I have the following:

Men:

School	Football	Hockey	Wrestling	Baseball	Basketball	Cross/Track	Golf	Tennis	Total
North Dakota	63	18			13	12.6	4.5	4.5	115.6
North Dakota State	63		9.9	11.7	13	12.6	4.5	4.5	119.2

Women:

School	Basketball	Cross	Golf	Soccer	Softball	Tennis	Volleyball	Total
North Dakota	15	18	6	14	12	8	12	85
North Dakota State	15	18	6	14	12		12	77

Total For All Sports:

School	Total
North Dakota	200.6
North Dakota State	196.2

Then looking at Jdub27 numbers it looks like UND is 7.4 above the max and NDSU is 16.2 below the max.   I must be missing something here.  But, I am not sure what? 

For 2019:
UND gave out $5.5 million though 208 full equivalencies to 328 student athletes.
NDSU gave out $4.8 million 180 full equivalencies to 323 student athletes.

Someone DM'd me and they gave a very plausible reason for UND being above the current max allowed.  It because UND is still honoring scholarship commitment from the cutting of sports in 16/17.  So, it is very likely that UND will be seeing a reduced scholarship load by approximately 7 scholarships in the near future.  But, I still don't have a reason why NDSU is 16 scholarships under the max.  Oh well, but Bison73 I think clearly shows that UND is hyper funded and NDSU is potentially under funded at this point.  Let me know what you see wrong with those conclusions.  

In my opinion, all the D1 requirements and levels in particular appear to be changing based on yesterdays news of a conference to discuss these requirements.  So, this is all kind of moot at this point.  But, I just wanted to wrap up the topic.

[FSSD]

15 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

 

 

 

P5 can keep its College Football Playoff and 85 scholarships and do their own thing.

75-85-scholarship subdivision merger between top FCS teams and G5 teams that don’t get poached to P5 conferences

63-scholarship for rest of FCS and any D2 teams that wanna jump

Today's P5 - I think you might see some teams dropping down.  They may not want to keep up with the Jones as they say.  Because the large power school are going to say either invest or get out.  But, we are tired of you riding along.  In addition, I can see them going back to 100 scholarships.  Why risk losing talent to the lower levels.

Today G5 - If there is a hard wall between P5 and G5.  And P5 expands scholarship limits.  That means less talent available and why continue to apply the 85 scholarship limit.  Plus without guarantee games more schools will be losing money.  I can see a potential reduction in the number of scholarship for G5 maybe back down the FCS type levels and rules or lower.

Bottom level of FCS and D2 - I can see them merging and scholarship levels reduced from 63 to 45 max and 20 min.

All non scholarship football programs - Does the Dayton rule really make sense in today's athletics.  I don't know..  So, they play in a new D-III for football.  Hamline/Macalester really get crushed now.

[CMSioux]

9 hours ago, FSSD said:

I am sure that I have something off, when I add up the max allowed by sport for mens and womens for UND and NDSU.  I have the following:

Men:

School	Football	Hockey	Wrestling	Baseball	Basketball	Cross/Track	Golf	Tennis	Total
North Dakota	63	18			13	12.6	4.5	4.5	115.6
North Dakota State	63		9.9	11.7	13	12.6	4.5	4.5	119.2

Women:

School	Basketball	Cross	Golf	Soccer	Softball	Tennis	Volleyball	Total
North Dakota	15	18	6	14	12	8	12	85
North Dakota State	15	18	6	14	12		12	77

Total For All Sports:

School	Total
North Dakota	200.6
North Dakota State	196.2

Then looking at Jdub27 numbers it looks like UND is 7.4 above the max and NDSU is 16.2 below the max.   I must be missing something here.  But, I am not sure what? 

For 2019:
UND gave out $5.5 million though 208 full equivalencies to 328 student athletes.
NDSU gave out $4.8 million 180 full equivalencies to 323 student athletes.

They hate it when you use facts. 

[Bison Dan]

10 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

They hate it when you use facts. 

NDSU doesn't have tennis.

[FSSD]

2 minutes ago, Bison Dan said:

NDSU doesn't have tennis.

Thanks, I knew that I had something off....  so we are looking at 11.7 under funding for NDSU.  Thanks for the correction Dan.

[FSSD]

School	Football	Hockey	Wrestling	Baseball	Basketball	Cross/Track	Golf	Tennis	Track I/O	Total
North Dakota	63	18			13	12.6	4.5	4.5		115.6
North Dakota State	63		9.9	11.7	13	12.6	4.5			114.7

School	Basketball	Cross	Golf	Soccer	Softball	Tennis	Volleyball	Track I/O	Total
North Dakota	15	18	6	14	12	8	12		85
North Dakota State	15	18	6	14	12		12		77

 

School	Total	2019	Difference
North Dakota	200.6	208	7.4
North Dakota State	191.7	180	-11.7

Thanks again - Dan - let me know if I have anything else that needs to be updated.

[cowboys5xsbs]

 

[SIOUXFAN97]

16 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

 

yeah...don't seeing them doubling up on those states...i see them going up the east  coast if anywhere...north carolina, virginia, heck even maryland!!????

[Sioux>Bison]

38 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

 

So does Clemson and Florida State think the rest of the ACC is weighing them down and that they are carrying the conference along? Clemson and Florida State anywhere near the media payouts as Texas and OU?

[the green team]

29 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

So does Clemson and Florida State think the rest of the ACC is weighing them down and that they are carrying the conference along? Clemson and Florida State anywhere near the media payouts as Texas and OU?

I think the 19-20 season the ACC distributed 497 million- about 33 million per institution.  

[Yote 53]

When the discussion comes up about which NCAA schools will start a hockey program the first thing that is mentioned is a facility to play in followed by "unless they get a $100 million endowment forget about it".  The same applies to NDSU football and their facilities.  In FBS terms, the FargoDome is tiny.  18,500 isn't near enough capacity for the MWC and it would by far be the smallest stadium in the conference.  Fargo would need at minimum a 30,000 seat enclosed facility and that is going to cost huge $$$.  Do they expect the city and the citizens of Fargo to foot the bill for the stadium or is NDSU ready to foot the $200+ million bill for a facility that hosts up to 10 dates a year, concerts, and graduation?  The Kibbie Dome at Idaho holds 16,000 and Idaho failed at FBS and moved back down to FCS and the Big Sky.

Even if NDSU was able to pull an FBS move off which conference do they go to?  MWC is spread across the west.  MAC is to the east and isn't really inclined to expand west.  The destruction of the Big 12 is creating other viable alternatives these conferences are looking to add.  Now NDSU is competing against KSU, OSU, and ISU for a seat at the MWC table.  They have no chance getting selected over those schools.  If the Big 12 survives and they steal from the AAC and MWC then NDSU might have a chance as being a backfill member in the MWC.  Even then, what does NDSU bring to a conference?  Excellence on the field, yes, I will give them that, but it's so much more than that.  TV market, facilities, institutional fit, location, there is so much more than just being a good football program.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

2 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

When the discussion comes up about which NCAA schools will start a hockey program the first thing that is mentioned is a facility to play in followed by "unless they get a $100 million endowment forget about it".  The same applies to NDSU football and their facilities.  In FBS terms, the FargoDome is tiny.  18,500 isn't near enough capacity for the MWC and it would by far be the smallest stadium in the conference.  Fargo would need at minimum a 30,000 seat enclosed facility and that is going to cost huge $$$.  Do they expect the city and the citizens of Fargo to foot the bill for the stadium or is NDSU ready to foot the $200+ million bill for a facility that hosts up to 10 dates a year, concerts, and graduation?  The Kibbie Dome at Idaho holds 16,000 and Idaho failed at FBS and moved back down to FCS and the Big Sky.

Even if NDSU was able to pull an FBS move off which conference do they go to?  MWC is spread across the west.  MAC is to the east and isn't really inclined to expand west.  The destruction of the Big 12 is creating other viable alternatives these conferences are looking to add.  Now NDSU is competing against KSU, OSU, and ISU for a seat at the MWC table.  They have no chance getting selected over those schools.  If the Big 12 survives and they steal from the AAC and MWC then NDSU might have a chance as being a backfill member in the MWC.  Even then, what does NDSU bring to a conference?  Excellence on the field, yes, I will give them that, but it's so much more than that.  TV market, facilities, institutional fit, location, there is so much more than just being a good football program.

https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-video-footage-big-bison-slides-ice-then-turns-leaves-video52214759

[nodak651]

11 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

When the discussion comes up about which NCAA schools will start a hockey program the first thing that is mentioned is a facility to play in followed by "unless they get a $100 million endowment forget about it".  The same applies to NDSU football and their facilities.  In FBS terms, the FargoDome is tiny.  18,500 isn't near enough capacity for the MWC and it would by far be the smallest stadium in the conference.  Fargo would need at minimum a 30,000 seat enclosed facility and that is going to cost huge $$$.  Do they expect the city and the citizens of Fargo to foot the bill for the stadium or is NDSU ready to foot the $200+ million bill for a facility that hosts up to 10 dates a year, concerts, and graduation?  The Kibbie Dome at Idaho holds 16,000 and Idaho failed at FBS and moved back down to FCS and the Big Sky.

Even if NDSU was able to pull an FBS move off which conference do they go to?  MWC is spread across the west.  MAC is to the east and isn't really inclined to expand west.  The destruction of the Big 12 is creating other viable alternatives these conferences are looking to add.  Now NDSU is competing against KSU, OSU, and ISU for a seat at the MWC table.  They have no chance getting selected over those schools.  If the Big 12 survives and they steal from the AAC and MWC then NDSU might have a chance as being a backfill member in the MWC.  Even then, what does NDSU bring to a conference?  Excellence on the field, yes, I will give them that, but it's so much more than that.  TV market, facilities, institutional fit, location, there is so much more than just being a good football program.

I disagree with the stadium issue.  Given the current size, they can leverage ticket scarcity by keeping ticket prices high while still bein able to effectively sell out every game and have an awesome atmosphere.  I don't see how a bigger stadium is needed at all when they already generate more ticket sales than any school in the MAC, Sun Belt, or CUSA, not to mention half of the MWC.  They can renovate the dome to add suites or club seats as well, so $200 million for a new stadium seems like a hell of risk to me -- for what reward?  I'd really like to see a hypothetical financing/business analysis on this.  Also, disregarding any financial risk, the home field advantage at the new stadium would undoubtedly be worse, which I believe would actually cost NDSU W's at some point.  It's a TOUGH place to play at for a road team... we've all seen it.  I'll refrain from comparing the Fargo Dome to the basketball arenas at Gonzaga or Duke, but you get the point.

[JohnboyND7]

10 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

When the discussion comes up about which NCAA schools will start a hockey program the first thing that is mentioned is a facility to play in followed by "unless they get a $100 million endowment forget about it".  The same applies to NDSU football and their facilities.  In FBS terms, the FargoDome is tiny.  18,500 isn't near enough capacity for the MWC and it would by far be the smallest stadium in the conference.  Fargo would need at minimum a 30,000 seat enclosed facility and that is going to cost huge $$$.  Do they expect the city and the citizens of Fargo to foot the bill for the stadium or is NDSU ready to foot the $200+ million bill for a facility that hosts up to 10 dates a year, concerts, and graduation?  The Kibbie Dome at Idaho holds 16,000 and Idaho failed at FBS and moved back down to FCS and the Big Sky.

Even if NDSU was able to pull an FBS move off which conference do they go to?  MWC is spread across the west.  MAC is to the east and isn't really inclined to expand west.  The destruction of the Big 12 is creating other viable alternatives these conferences are looking to add.  Now NDSU is competing against KSU, OSU, and ISU for a seat at the MWC table.  They have no chance getting selected over those schools.  If the Big 12 survives and they steal from the AAC and MWC then NDSU might have a chance as being a backfill member in the MWC.  Even then, what does NDSU bring to a conference?  Excellence on the field, yes, I will give them that, but it's so much more than that.  TV market, facilities, institutional fit, location, there is so much more than just being a good football program.

The Big 12 schools would go to the American way before they'd go to the MWC lol

[SIOUXFAN97]

21 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I disagree with the stadium issue.  Given the current size, they can leverage ticket scarcity by keeping ticket prices high while still bein able to effectively sell out every game and have an awesome atmosphere.  I don't see how a bigger stadium is needed at all when they already generate more ticket sales than any school in the MAC, Sun Belt, or CUSA, not to mention half of the MWC.  They can renovate the dome to add suites or club seats as well, so $200 million for a new stadium seems like a hell of risk to me -- for what reward?  I'd really like to see a hypothetical financing/business analysis on this.  Also, disregarding any financial risk, the home field advantage at the new stadium would undoubtedly be worse, which I believe would actually cost UND W's at some point.  It's a TOUGH place to play at for a road team... we've all seen it.  I'll refrain from comparing the Fargo Dome to the basketball arenas at Gonzaga or Duke, but you get the point.

just change ndsu to und and rinse and repeat..........

[SIOUXFAN97]

Just now, JohnboyND7 said:

The Big 12 schools would go to the American way before they'd go to the MWC lol

exactly!  without tex or ou they not nothing but some schools in the middle of nowhere usa

[dmksioux]

2 hours ago, nodak651 said:

I disagree with the stadium issue.  Given the current size, they can leverage ticket scarcity by keeping ticket prices high while still bein able to effectively sell out every game and have an awesome atmosphere.  I don't see how a bigger stadium is needed at all when they already generate more ticket sales than any school in the MAC, Sun Belt, or CUSA, not to mention half of the MWC.  They can renovate the dome to add suites or club seats as well, so $200 million for a new stadium seems like a hell of risk to me -- for what reward?  I'd really like to see a hypothetical financing/business analysis on this.  Also, disregarding any financial risk, the home field advantage at the new stadium would undoubtedly be worse, which I believe would actually cost NDSU W's at some point.  It's a TOUGH place to play at for a road team... we've all seen it.  I'll refrain from comparing the Fargo Dome to the basketball arenas at Gonzaga or Duke, but you get the point.

One thing that has always bothered me about the Fargodome is their narrow sidelines.  There is not a lot of room from the sideline to the stands.  Not sure if an FBS conference would be concerned about that or not?  Would they consider it a safety issue for their players?

Edited August 4, 2021 by dmksioux
Misspellings

[ND-fan]

The Fargo dome size of stadium means getting nonconference game against major FBS program is not going to happen they will be left with bringing in FCS opponents and also guaranteeing  them money to play how is that going to help for increase budget of moving to FBS. The dream of being major player at FBS level is that a dream they will not be playing for national championships best will be playing for conference championship at one lesser FBS conferences and chance at one lesser bowl during christmas to New Years time frame. There will be no home playoff games like they have now with FCS and chance to play weekly until Christmas one big reasons it had become so popular with people in North Dakota gave them something to follow at the end of the year. I can't see them building a new stadium on short run all players to get funding done for the project are fighting budget battles now them selves like Fargo with flood control project, State with budget short falls from less oil revenues, and NDSU lack of funding research and enrollment declines. I may be wrong but Fargo is not ready to move up even though they like to think big but resources are not in place to make this move now and may take another 10 to 20 years growth to get to where they will have resources to make this move.