Bullying

[Goon]

21 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Per Schoss Miller sent a letter to every NHL team addressing the incident.

 

[SiouxForever]

23 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Per Schoss Miller sent a letter to every NHL team addressing the incident.

Typical for Schloss not knowing this. 

[SiouxCrioux1]

Does anyone know off hand who else recruited Miller?

[UND1983]

The official response from UND is getting destroyed on Twitter.  The optics of this are so bad. .

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

33 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

The official response from UND is getting destroyed on Twitter.  The optics of this are so bad. .

Everyone can express their opinion by not going to UND games this season.  That'll show them.

[Frozen4sioux]

5 hours ago, UND1983 said:

This looks awful for the program.  Really, really awful look.

The PR response was very very poor, this story was going to pop nationally at some point, It was widely known about already.

There was ample time to have a prepared and open response.

This was flubbed badly.

[Benny Baker]

Makes me wonder how Tychonick (Junior), or even Luke Reid, would have compared to Miller (Freshman) this season.

Also wonder how long this will follow UND hockey around this season.

[Blackheart]

23 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

The PR response wasnvery bery poor, thos storybwas going to pop nationally at some point, It was widely known about already.

There was ample to have a prepared and open reaponse.

This was flubbed badly.

Spellcheck not available?

[Frozen4sioux]

My opinion on the Miller stuff.

It's freakin terrible,  I said the same when we discussed it the first time.

The level of mean cold hearted arrogant evil it takes to bully to those legths is appalling, but unfortunately not unbelievable or uncommon.

The levels of response, remorse, punishment and actions at the time do not in any way indicate that the kid was the least bit remorseful. Thats a massive red flag for me.

Now I do belief in the redeeming power of growth, maturity, learning, self awareness, forgiveness, and I believe it is possible that this young man's heart has changed for the better.  There is much more benefit to the world in being able to change a dark heartless child of 14 into a loving caring responsible adult.

Im not sure I see anything to indicate that has happened to this point.

I have a 14 year old hockey player. I also have a son with some issues that make life challenging for him. This thing hits home for me. I hate it, I hate everything about it. I'm not pleased my (very meager) donations and support may have gone to reward this kid with opportunity that he shouldnt maybe have.

I'm not pleased with the absolutely terrible PR response that UND put out.

I'm not pleased Berry hasnt addressed it already, seems like it should have maybe been the basis for an in depth Schloss piece on the road to redemption and forgiveness bridged by the hockey coach.

Also BTW I'm not too impressed with Schloss sitting on this story to only comment now that it broke after the draft.

But mostly I am not pleased with this young man's actions or response either before or during the attention its getting. 

BUT I do not know this young man, I do not know his heart.

I do know the type of person Brad Berry is and I trust in his judgement.

If Berry feels this kid is salvageable and can be nurtured to a better adult. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, however UND and Berry now own this situation and are accountable one way or another.

[Frozen4sioux]

7 minutes ago, Blackheart said:

Spellcheck not available?

No, but Busch lite was readily.

[Frozen4sioux]

12 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

Makes me wonder how Tychonick (Junior), or even Luke Reid, would have compared to Miller (Freshman) this season.

Also wonder how long this will follow UND hockey around this season.

Plenty of people that will not let it die, and frankly it shouldn't. Kid needs to prove to alot of people his heart has changed.

[Sioux>Bison]

Man the victim and his family must not be Christian or Miller and his family did nothing extra to apologize. I would be livid if this happened to my kid but to hold a grudge on the actions of a 13 year old kid is wrong. Is it fair that they try to ruin Miller’s life just like they damaged the victim? Forgiveness is a virtue and maybe Miller did not deserve it or maybe he did. He could already be a better person but who knows when we can smear the kid without proof of character. This action was obviously horrid but when can the kid be forgiven for the actions he did as a child, never? I believe in second chances. If Michael Vick gets a second chance why not Miller?

[siouxfan512]

Some of you just amaze me. A kid does something he shouldn't have, and we want to hold it against him for the rest of his life. Was it right? Absolutely not! Should he have been held accountable at the time? Yes! (though I don't know if he was) Regardless, how many people here did stupid stuff when they were in 8th grade that is the complete opposite of the people they are today? I know I did dumb things that I wouldn't want to be judged on as an adult. I also know that I faced bullies, as so many kids do, and I also wouldn't want to have those kids lives ruined because they were jerks when they were little. In fact, I've run into several of those folks years later and seen them turn into fine people.

In some regards, its like using slang word from that same age group. The term faggot was thrown around a lot when I was in middle school and probably even high school. Did kids understand the gravity of the word, how it might hurt or offend people? No, at that age it was a meaningless word; you just used it for people you didn't like, just like calling someone an A-hole. The point is, things you say or do as a kid, does not directly reflect the kind of person you are, or the kind of person you become. To hold someone, especially a kid, to that high of a standard is not only asinine, it is hypocritical, because the number of people out there who can honestly say they never did something they regret as a kid, is few and far between. 

Should the kid have directly apologized? Yes, that would have been the right thing to do; but we can't control how kids think, act, or respond. This guy is no longer in 8th grade, but he is still a kid. I question how his parents may have handled the situation, but that is also not fair to judge, as none of us really know all of the details there either. Should this have become a pattern over years, or should another incident occur, I think there is more validity to the harsh comments some of you have. But I would say that before you want to condemn someone for the rest of their life because of something they did (obviously there are some exceptions here), think back to something you did as a kid, or something a friend may have done that you watched and said nothing, or how you would want to see this play out if it was you kid.

Again, I'm not defending what this player did. I find it disgusting, and would be extremely disappointed if I learned that my kid did that, but I think we also need to be careful on just how hard we judge the actions of a kid in 8th grade, and how long they should have to face punishment for some of those actions. There is a lot of grey area in there.

[geaux_sioux]

8 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

My opinion on the Miller stuff.

It's freakin terrible,  I said the same when we discussed it the first time.

The level of mean cold hearted arrogant evil it takes to bully to those legths is appalling, but unfortunately not unbelievable or uncommon.

The levels of response, remorse, punishment and actions at the time do not in any way indicate that the kid was the least bit remorseful. Thats a massive red flag for me.

Now I do belief in the redeeming power of growth, maturity, learning, self awareness, forgiveness, and I believe it is possible that this young man's heart has changed for the better.  There is much more benefit to the world in being able to change a dark heartless child of 14 into a loving caring responsible adult.

Im not sure I see anything to indicate that has happened to this point.

I have a 14 year old hockey player. I also have a son with some issues that make life challenging for him. This thing hits home for me. I hate it, I hate everything about it. I'm not pleased my (very meager) donations and support may have gone to reward this kid with opportunity that he shouldnt maybe have.

I'm not pleased with the absolutely terrible PR response that UND put out.

I'm not pleased Berry hasnt addressed it already, seems like it should have maybe been the basis for an in depth Schloss piece on the road to redemption and forgiveness bridged by the hockey coach.

Also BTW I'm not too impressed with Schloss sitting on this story to only comment now that it broke after the draft.

But mostly I am not pleased with this young man's actions or response either before or during the attention its getting. 

BUT I do not know this young man, I do not know his heart.

I do know the type of person Brad Berry is and I trust in his judgement.

If Berry feels this kid is salvageable and can be nurtured to a better adult. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, however UND and Berry now own this situation and are accountable one way or another.

He called it an “incident” as if it was one isolated !@#$ up. He enjoyed torturing that poor kid. I’m pretty torn on this because people can grow and change, but when I think back to the type of kids that would do this type of stuff in middle school that I knew, they’re still pieces of !@#$ to this day. Tough to think we couldn’t have found a recruit with better character.

[UND1983]

18 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

Some of you just amaze me. A kid does something he shouldn't have, and we want to hold it against him for the rest of his life. Was it right? Absolutely not! Should he have been held accountable at the time? Yes! (though I don't know if he was) Regardless, how many people here did stupid stuff when they were in 8th grade that is the complete opposite of the people they are today? I know I did dumb things that I wouldn't want to be judged on as an adult. I also know that I faced bullies, as so many kids do, and I also wouldn't want to have those kids lives ruined because they were jerks when they were little. In fact, I've run into several of those folks years later and seen them turn into fine people.

In some regards, its like using slang word from that same age group. The term faggot was thrown around a lot when I was in middle school and probably even high school. Did kids understand the gravity of the word, how it might hurt or offend people? No, at that age it was a meaningless word; you just used it for people you didn't like, just like calling someone an A-hole. The point is, things you say or do as a kid, does not directly reflect the kind of person you are, or the kind of person you become. To hold someone, especially a kid, to that high of a standard is not only asinine, it is hypocritical, because the number of people out there who can honestly say they never did something they regret as a kid, is few and far between. 

Should the kid have directly apologized? Yes, that would have been the right thing to do; but we can't control how kids think, act, or respond. This guy is no longer in 8th grade, but he is still a kid. I question how his parents may have handled the situation, but that is also not fair to judge, as none of us really know all of the details there either. Should this have become a pattern over years, or should another incident occur, I think there is more validity to the harsh comments some of you have. But I would say that before you want to condemn someone for the rest of their life because of something they did (obviously there are some exceptions here), think back to something you did as a kid, or something a friend may have done that you watched and said nothing, or how you would want to see this play out if it was you kid.

Again, I'm not defending what this player did. I find it disgusting, and would be extremely disappointed if I learned that my kid did that, but I think we also need to be careful on just how hard we judge the actions of a kid in 8th grade, and how long they should have to face punishment for some of those actions. There is a lot of grey area in there.

keep going...you almost made it to the part that is truly horrific. 

Oh, and nice job poo-pooing away the use of the N-word!  People like you are why this sh*t is still tolerated.  

[UNDBIZ]

7 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Man the victim and his family must not be Christian or Miller and his family did nothing extra to apologize. I would be livid if this happened to my kid but to hold a grudge on the actions of a 13 year old kid is wrong. Is it fair that they try to ruin Miller’s life just like they damaged the victim? Forgiveness is a virtue and maybe Miller did not deserve it or maybe he did. He could already be a better person but who knows when we can smear the kid without proof of character. This action was obviously horrid but when can the kid be forgiven for the actions he did as a child, never? I believe in second chances. If Michael Vick gets a second chance why not Miller?

Maybe when he offers a sincere apology for it.  A court-ordered letter and some posturing for NHL teams to protect his own future don't really cut it.

[Oxbow6]

Bradley.berry@und.edu

For those who think MM should be gone from the team feel free to reach out.

[siouxfan512]

19 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

keep going...you almost made it to the part that is truly horrific. 

Oh, and nice job poo-pooing away the use of the N-word!  People like you are why this sh*t is still tolerated.  

Dude, I'm not tolerating anything, and I probably haven't read into this as much as some of you, other than what has been posted on here. I'll make a point to do that; all I'm saying is what someone does as a kid is not what should define them for the rest of their life.

I don't know the kid, and I'm guessing you don't either. Maybe he is a good kid that did something wrong, maybe he really is a POS that doesn't deserve another shot. I truly have no idea, but who am I to judge without knowing the whole story or the kid himself.

For the record its the same judgement your putting in your post. You don't know me or anything about me. I have no tolerance for bullying or use of the N-word, and I have three kids. Our family has constant conversation about what we expect in terms of behavior. How to react if you are being bullied, or see someone else being bullied, or have friends that are being bullies.

My only point in the who post I made was should his actions as an 8th grader, as egregious as they may have been, prevent him from other opportunities later in life? Should every kid that has ever done something wrong, be eliminated from college consideration or a job? I don't have those answers, I'm just surprise how many people think they do with out even being a party to the situation.

[siouxfan512]

32 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

keep going...you almost made it to the part that is truly horrific. 

Oh, and nice job poo-pooing away the use of the N-word!  People like you are why this sh*t is still tolerated.  

Just started doing a little more research, and I agree there was some terrible stuff out there. Though the article I read was still pretty vague; if you have any specific links could you send them to me. I would be interested to know more. Thanks.

[Wilbur]

14 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Careful everybody, Drunk hockey guy is lurking and sharing posts from here to his Twitter followers while trying and failing to get hockey influencers to acknowledge him. Looks like his pivot to car seat selfie fast food reviews didn't pan out. Haha

The social justice warrior!!!!  Is he still making small pox blankets signs and blowing his chance on the radio by trying to rip on college athletes with life threatening conditions???

Or just still stumbling drunk into kids at hockey games?

[UND1983]

5 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

Dude, I'm not tolerating anything, and I probably haven't read into this as much as some of you, other than what has been posted on here. I'll make a point to do that; all I'm saying is what someone does as a kid is not what should define them for the rest of their life.

I don't know the kid, and I'm guessing you don't either. Maybe he is a good kid that did something wrong, maybe he really is a POS that doesn't deserve another shot. I truly have no idea, but who am I to judge without knowing the whole story or the kid himself.

For the record its the same judgement your putting in your post. You don't know me or anything about me. I have no tolerance for bullying or use of the N-word, and I have three kids. Our family has constant conversation about what we expect in terms of behavior. How to react if you are being bullied, or see someone else being bullied, or have friends that are being bullies.

My only point in the who post I made was should his actions as an 8th grader, as egregious as they may have been, prevent him from other opportunities later in life? Should every kid that has ever done something wrong, be eliminated from college consideration or a job? I don't have those answers, I'm just surprise how many people think they do with out even being a party to the situation.

I gotcha and understand what you are saying.  The bullying and actual physically beating up of a mentally handicapped kid who believed MM was his friend is the part I cannot get over.  It pains me, I have a deep soft spot for those that have a handicap of no fault of there own.  They need help and need to be watched over and most of all, protected.  This is a tough one for me.  To go to an elite college hockey program is a special privilege and a one-time, 4-year type of thing.  Not an "opportunity", IMO.  He will have many chances to accept generic opportunities in the future - IMO a UND Hockey scholarship is different.  Just my 2 cents.

[tnt]

Either we choose to try to rehabilitate people or we don't.   It is curious to me why Berry decided to bring him in when we had a great stable of defense lined up.  Maybe he was feeling the pressure from the fan's discontent a few years ago or maybe he does want to give the guy a chance to become a better human being, only he knows that.  I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because if things didn't improve in the win column he would really have his feet held to the fire with a situation like this.  I just find it interesting that the victim's family brought the BLM topic and George Floyd thing into the equation when regarding Miller, as Floyd himself was given several chances to change his life after a run of bad choices as an adult.  If we choose to go down the road of not giving second chances, that is fine with me, but then be consistent, and start to build more prisons to accommodate for that. 

[MissSioux85]

CBS Sports article
https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/coyotes-drafting-mitchell-miller-is-latest-proof-that-nhls-anti-racism-initiatives-are-ringing-hollow/
 

Quote

But anyone using age as a defense here also has to recognize that actions of the immature still often carry consequences. Miller hasn't seemed to suffer too many consequences as a result of his heinous transgressions. A terrible display of character and judgement as a kid shouldn't necessarily follow a person for the rest of their life, but in certain circumstances a person has to dig their way out on their own without the way being paved for them. He's still earned a scholarship to the University of North Dakota and was drafted about one round later than initially projected.

 

[UND1983]

15 minutes ago, tnt said:

Either we choose to try to rehabilitate people or we don't.   It is curious to me why Berry decided to bring him in when we had a great stable of defense lined up.  Maybe he was feeling the pressure from the fan's discontent a few years ago or maybe he does want to give the guy a chance to become a better human being, only he knows that.  I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because if things didn't improve in the win column he would really have his feet held to the fire with a situation like this.  I just find it interesting that the victim's family brought the BLM topic and George Floyd thing into the equation when regarding Miller, as Floyd himself was given several chances to change his life after a run of bad choices as an adult.  If we choose to go down the road of not giving second chances, that is fine with me, but then be consistent, and start to build more prisons to accommodate for that. 

So MM should be in prison?  Stay focused.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

9 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

So MM should be in prison?  Stay focused.

Lock @MafiaMan up!