Bullying

[SiouxFanatic]

30 minutes ago, tnt said:

If we choose to go down the road of not giving second chances, that is fine with me, but then be consistent, and start to build more prisons to accommodate for that. 

I believe in giving second chances but based on everything that has been reported and his "apology" doesn't come off as genuine when he never personally apologized to the victim. If he honestly still thinks the court-mandated apology letter is enough then he still hasn't grown at all and I am conflicted on whether or not he deserves that second chance.

UND, Mitchell, and @schlossmangfh terribly mishandled this. Instead of being reactive and waiting for this whole thing to blow up they could've been proactive. If they would've got ahead of this and Mitchell actually apologized to the victim that would've at least shown that he was trying to improve himself and be a better person. Everything being said now doesn't come off as genuine at all. 

[Oxbow6]

14 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

So MM should be in prison?  Stay focused.

Maybe we can start naming high schools after George Floyd but I digress......

[iluvdebbies]

53 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Bradley.berry@und.edu

For those who think MM should be gone from the team feel free to reach out.

Bump

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, Oxbow6 said:

Maybe we can start naming high schools after George Floyd but I digress......

That's up to Shaw.

[Oxbow6]

26 minutes ago, MissSioux85 said:

CBS Sports article
https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/coyotes-drafting-mitchell-miller-is-latest-proof-that-nhls-anti-racism-initiatives-are-ringing-hollow/
 

 

So based on this article he should be banned to the KHL for the rest of his hockey life?

[Old Fella]

Bulling is 1 thing.

Herald article.

Having a mentally challanged Black 13 year old lick on a popcicle soaked in urine is another.

It is Sadistic.

[tnt]

25 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So based on this article he should be banned to the KHL for the rest of his hockey life?

You have to wonder how many NFL rosters would be affected if everyone was held to the same standard. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

Maybe when he offers a sincere apology for it.  A court-ordered letter and some posturing for NHL teams to protect his own future don't really cut it.

define sincere?...should he hold a press conference and rip out his hair...cut off a finger...cry silently while staring at the camera for five minutes.

[geaux_sioux]

2 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

define sincere?...should he hold a press conference and rip out his hair...cut off a finger...cry silently while staring at the camera for five minutes.

He called it an incident. That is pure bull$%!#. It was a sadistic pattern of behavior. He absolutely dehumanized that poor kid. Not once, but over and over. Really tough to chalk that up to immaturity.

[UNDBIZ]

3 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

define sincere?...should he hold a press conference and rip out his hair...cut off a finger...cry silently while staring at the camera for five minutes.

A press conference is the opposite of sincere.  He should apologize, in person, to the kid he tormented and assaulted multiple times over the course of several years.

[SIOUXFAN97]

Just now, geaux_sioux said:

He called it an incident. That is pure bull$%!#. It was a sadistic pattern of behavior. He absolutely dehumanized that poor kid. Not once, but over and over. Really tough to chalk that up to immaturity.

he was 14

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

A press conference is the opposite of sincere.  He should apologize, in person, to the kid he tormented and assaulted multiple times over the course of several years.

has anyone asked if he wants to meet with mm? 

[UNDBIZ]

13 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

has anyone asked if he wants to meet with mm? 

You may be right that it's too little and way too late.

[MissSioux85]

44 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So based on this article he should be banned to the KHL for the rest of his hockey life?

Not at all. It points out major discrepancies of the NHL's supposed stand against racism and racist behaviors.

It also points out, like others have already said, that Miller hasn't really shown that he's EARNED a second chance. All teams involved seemed to have simply shrugged it off believing a COURT-ORDERED apology was sufficient.

[SiouxFanatic]

16 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

has anyone asked if he wants to meet with mm? 

Mitchell Miller had weeks, months, and years to contact the victim to see if he could personally apologize. The onus was on Mitchell. By all accounts he made zero attempt to do so.

[geaux_sioux]

19 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

he was 14

So was the kid he abused repeatedly. 

[siouxfan512]

1 hour ago, UND1983 said:

I gotcha and understand what you are saying.  The bullying and actual physically beating up of a mentally handicapped kid who believed MM was his friend is the part I cannot get over.  It pains me, I have a deep soft spot for those that have a handicap of no fault of there own.  They need help and need to be watched over and most of all, protected.  This is a tough one for me.  To go to an elite college hockey program is a special privilege and a one-time, 4-year type of thing.  Not an "opportunity", IMO.  He will have many chances to accept generic opportunities in the future - IMO a UND Hockey scholarship is different.  Just my 2 cents.

Fair points, I would be interested to know how MM actually feels about all of this. Is he truly remorseful, or not. If he is not, then it certainly say a lot about the kind of person he is. 

[Oxbow6]

5 minutes ago, MissSioux85 said:

Not at all. It points out major discrepancies of the NHL's supposed stand against racism and racist behaviors.

It also points out, like others have already said, that Miller hasn't really shown that he's EARNED a second chance. All teams involved seemed to have simply shrugged it off believing a COURT-ORDERED apology was sufficient.

So obviously the Coyotes organization is racist for drafting him? 

[MissSioux85]

14 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So obviously the Coyotes organization is racist for drafting him? 

Hypocritical.
 

[Wilbur]

Regardless of what side of the fence you are on with this I think UND could really be proactive with getting Mr. Miller into some area classrooms during his time at UND and get an anti-bullying initiative going.  

Maybe you have Mr. Weatherby go with him and both can share a message for kids that could make a difference.  

[tnt]

40 minutes ago, SiouxFanatic said:

Mitchell Miller had weeks, months, and years to contact the victim to see if he could personally apologize. The onus was on Mitchell. By all accounts he made zero attempt to do so.

By all accounts.   None of us know all of the behind the scenes stuff that went on.   There are so many questions I would like answered, none of which changes his accountability in the matter.  I would be interested to know the other guy's role in this, and how he moved forward from this.  I would like to know how long this went on, and if there were all of the witnesses, why nobody stepped forward to stop the torture, or at the very least told an authority figure or the boys mom.  I would like to know when MM decommitted from Miami, and why, and when UND entered the picture.  Did he want to get away from Miami because of how prevalent the coverage was in the area?   Did Berry know about this before he started recruiting him, and if he did, did he discuss it with our Athletic Director, being how it could affect the image of the University?  Did the kid discuss the issue with Berry during the recruiting process?    There are just so many questions that would be helpful, but yeah, don't know if I would have put my neck out on the limb for him.  I just think we draw our own conclusions based on the only things are available to us.   

[Blackheart]

1 hour ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Lock @MafiaMan up!

He should be behind bars!

[tnt]

21 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Regardless of what side of the fence you are on with this I think UND could really be proactive with getting Mr. Miller into some area classrooms during his time at UND and get an anti-bullying initiative going.  

Maybe you have Mr. Weatherby go with him and both can share a message for kids that could make a difference.  

That's a great point.  Accountability will be evident in locker room talk.  If he hasn't changed it will be quite evident and I would guess team chemistry would take a negative hit.  

[UNDlaw80]

Miller’s parents should shoulder more responsibility for this mess, both for the bullying and the public relations.  A 14 year old understands right and wrong, but can’t always comprehend the true depth and ramifications of his/her actions.  That’s why bullying is most prevalent and severe at this age; and why parents/schools need to step in when fun goes beyond the typical chirping of 14 year olds.        

Bullies, even severe ones, aren’t innately bad kids. They act out for a variety of reasons.  
So this begs the question.  Where were his parents when he was beating up a handicapped kid for years?  You can’t tell me there were no warning signs.  Why didn’t his parents demand he personally apologize?  This would be the 1st thing any responsible parent would demand.  Then again, any 18 year old with a conscious would do it on his own.     
    

Kids are products of their environment.  People often change as they mature and are exposed to different ways of life beyond the worldview of their youth.  Going to UND, with the responsibilities and lessons that go with it, could be immensely beneficial for Miller.    
I trust that Berry has done his due diligence.  I’m willing to give Miller a second chance; albeit one on an exceedingly short leash.  That said, both parties thoroughly botched it on the public relations front.  

[siouxforce19]

28 minutes ago, tnt said:

By all accounts.   None of us know all of the behind the scenes stuff that went on.   There are so many questions I would like answered, none of which changes his accountability in the matter.  I would be interested to know the other guy's role in this, and how he moved forward from this.  I would like to know how long this went on, and if there were all of the witnesses, why nobody stepped forward to stop the torture, or at the very least told an authority figure or the boys mom.  I would like to know when MM decommitted from Miami, and why, and when UND entered the picture.  Did he want to get away from Miami because of how prevalent the coverage was in the area?   Did Berry know about this before he started recruiting him, and if he did, did he discuss it with our Athletic Director, being how it could affect the image of the University?  Did the kid discuss the issue with Berry during the recruiting process?    There are just so many questions that would be helpful, but yeah, don't know if I would have put my neck out on the limb for him.  I just think we draw our own conclusions based on the only things are available to us.   

Yup, these are all questions I have as well. Fact is this bullying could have and should have been stopped way beforehand. 

I know Berry knew during the process because the university investigated, but I’d like to know what made him come to the conclusion he deserved a shot. I’d also like to know about the letter MM claims to have sent to the victim that the victim says he never got. Is MM lying? Did he really send it? Did it get lost?

Either way, UND has handled this poorly and they will have to own it.