Cutting Sports: Round 2

[Blackheart]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

Now, the average FCS team loses $2,500,000.00. The average. Please tell me the number for UND's FCS team so as to make a direct comparison. 

So you're saying UND should drop football?

[homer]

11 hours ago, planet2county said:

The point is for one program, it supposed be all about dollars and cents and ROI.  For other programs, it is about hyperbole such a potential and supposed prestige.  What is it going to cost to fund at championship levels?  How is it going to be funded?  What are those limits?  People advocate FBS thinking their is money to be made, show me the money.  I see people advocating to stay in what they consider a more "prestigious" conference when it costs the athletic department more.  Most people outside their regions couldn't tell you who is in the WAC, Big Sky, or Summit. 

 

 

 

What's the regional interest in women's hockey?   A NCAA tournament birth in men's basketball would be the largest ROI for any sport in terms of exposure.  

I would argue the playoff loss to Richmond in men's football still gave more media exposure to UND than any run the women's hockey program could have done.  Even more coverage than having olympians could be argued.  

FCS football isn't the top level of NCAA competition but in terms of fan interest it kicks the shit out of women's hockey.  

[jdub27]

14 hours ago, planet2county said:

So I guess not wanting UND to continue to lose 1.5M dollars a year on one sport is somehow sexist!!

Since the average FCS team loses around 2.5 based on Bloomberg article, looking at costs shouldn't be a problem, right.

There is no doubt that the football team is in the red on paper, but as a pure ROI, it is a much better deal. It offers around 100 opportunities for that price and that also doesn't take into account the 20+ kids who are on the team but paying tuition, that otherwise wouldn't be at UND nor the Champions Club donations that are given strictly because of the football program.

On the flip side, you have a handful of women's players who aren't on scholarship and no major donations tied to the program existing. And the loss is being done for the benefit of 25 student athletes, or 1/4 of what football provides.

While small on a relative scale, FCS football also provides the opportunity for much more exposure (marketing) for the University. One of them also shows growth potential, as even this year there was a large uptick in ticket sales to the tune of over six figures. WIH had two of the best players in the world, both who happened to be from Grand Forks, and still couldn't get anything resembling a decent crowd (outside the $1 ticket promotions against Minnesota).

I get what I think your point is: Football loses money too, why isn't it being considered. The money football loses is overstated somewhat due to revenues that aren't included while WIH is understated due to having expenses ignored. Football offers 4x more opportunities than WIH. Football is also providing opportunity for local kids, with around 15% of the kids being from ND while there is currently 1 ND girl on the WIH roster.

 

[UND92,96]

You know, maybe football really is keeping women's hockey down. Just ask the women's hockey coaches at UNO and Denver. Wait a minute...never mind .

[fightingsioux4life]

12 hours ago, planet2county said:

So the facility was just for football.  Are the costs for operation allocated to the football program?

My point is that if you build it big enough for FB to practice in, it makes no sense to cut FB's budget. Since Bubba took over, the program has been growing and gaining fans. Why jeopardize that in the name of ROI? This cannot be all about ROI and nothing else. If it was, most collegiate programs wouldn't even exist.

[planet2county]

5 hours ago, UND92,96 said:

You know, maybe football really is keeping women's hockey down. Just ask the women's hockey coaches at UNO and Denver. Wait a minute...never mind .

How is UNO and Denver's football team doing?  It is kind of funny in that I did not mention women's hockey.  I also did not start the ROI discussion.  I talked about increasing costs.  I must have hit on a sacred cow. 

There have been athletic budget issues at UND before women's athletics were funded.  I suspect there will be budget issues ahead even if cuts are made.  I have seen articles were the cost of athletics is rising faster than revenues from athletics and the cost of academics.  I hope attendance does rise for football past its peak attendance.  We also have to remember costs have risen since those days.  Struggling with athletic budgets is not unique to UND.  It is not restricted to FCS, it is not restricted to schools that have certain programs.

I will let the administrators make those decisions.

[WiSioux]

As I understand it (which really isn't well), it sounds as though you want to fund men's hockey, basketball, and football to championship level... As they have the highest return on investment. That is what, 150ish student athletes?

Where does that leave you with women's sports being funded to the same level? Volleyball and basketball or 40ish athletes? 

This is where I feel the Title XI stuff comes in. You've got 150 male athletes using the best facilities around, including a $100 million ice rink. You have no equivalent for the female athletes. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

4 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

You could make that case; however, you also need to look at tertiary effects. 

I am unaware of any significant donors or donations to UND because of M/W Tennis players. However, I do know of significant donors due to football and basketball. That tertiary effect must be calculated into the ROI. 

Aboslutely, sports also bring a value to the University that doesn't show u  on that A. Dept. spreadsheet.

[Bison101]

As an ND taxpayer, it makes sense to me that UND and NDSU differentiate themselves as much as possible.  What would be great for both schools is if UND dropped M/W Tennis, M/W Golf W Soccer and Softball. This would allow NDSU to continue and better recruit for those sports. On the flip side, after dropping those sports, UND should put in place a goal to have men's and women's Lacrosse as a varsity sports by 2020. The Alerus would be perfect for it and if you use the NDSU style roll up turf, you could have one set of turf for football, the other with Lacrosse lines only. It would actually be pretty bad ass. 

That would allow UND to have legit shots of winning a national championship's in 5 sports.  (M/W Hockey, M/W Lacrosse, Football.)

Of course, the negative from my perspective is that it really doesn't enhance NDSU in M/W Golf, Softball or W Soccer enough to make an impact on a national scale, it might on a conference level though.  That leaves NDSU with a chance at a national championship in basically 2 sports, kinda. 

Football and individual National Championship in Wrestling.) 

If NDSU ever did go FBS as the rubes on Bisonville are calling for, that would leave us with zero sports we could win a Natty at. F'n zero.  Kind of depressing really.

 

[gfhockey]

How'd women's hockey do today

[homer]

10 hours ago, WiSioux said:

As I understand it (which really isn't well), it sounds as though you want to fund men's hockey, basketball, and football to championship level... As they have the highest return on investment. That is what, 150ish student athletes?

Where does that leave you with women's sports being funded to the same level? Volleyball and basketball or 40ish athletes? 

This is where I feel the Title XI stuff comes in. You've got 150 male athletes using the best facilities around, including a $100 million ice rink. You have no equivalent for the female athletes. 

Mens and women's track and field have one of the nicest indoor facilities in the US to train in.  It not like any UND sports are lacking on facilities, other than Hyslop. 

[FSSD]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:30 AM, WiSioux said:

As I understand it (which really isn't well), it sounds as though you want to fund men's hockey, basketball, and football to championship level... As they have the highest return on investment. That is what, 150ish student athletes?

Where does that leave you with women's sports being funded to the same level? Volleyball and basketball or 40ish athletes? 

This is where I feel the Title XI stuff comes in. You've got 150 male athletes using the best facilities around, including a $100 million ice rink. You have no equivalent for the female athletes. 

I would say that the indoor track in one of the best training facilities in the country (I believe they have the same material as Rio Olympic - http://www.mondotrack.com/mondotrackws/) for indoor/outdoor track.  I think the Betty is a very nice facility for VB or WB.

[SWSiouxMN]

Miller just tweeted this out:

UND says it has to cut $1.3 million from athletics. School says everything on the table.

 

[AJS]

3 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Miller just tweeted this out:

UND says it has to cut $1.3 million from athletics. School says everything on the table.

 

$1.3 million is a pretty sizable chunk. I'd say Women's Hockey is going to be looked at very, very closely.

[supersioux]

COA would get us a good chunk and would be a way for all sports to give a little.

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, supersioux said:

COA would get us a good chunk and would be a way for all sports to give a little.

Yah, no.  Not happening.

[UNDColorado]

1 minute ago, supersioux said:

COA would get us a good chunk and would be a way for all sports to give a little.

That would give our in state and neighboring state conference rivals a huge advantage in recruiting. I would start looking hard at non revenue producing sports.

[SWSiouxMN]

Legit question: What is Brad's beef with Kennedy?

[iluvdebbies]

2 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Legit question: What is Brad's beef with Kennedy?

Brad can't win....he's either a puppet or has a beef. I guess maybe it's a sign he's doing his job.

[UNDBIZ]

3 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Legit question: What is Brad's beef with Kennedy?

Kennedy keeps bringing up the possibility of cutting sports, which causes the internet to call for WIH to get the axe, which affects Brad's job.

[gfhockey]

I bet we cut women's hockey budget by $400k we get same resukts

[The Sicatoka]

1 hour ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Miller just tweeted this out:

UND says it has to cut $1.3 million from athletics. School says everything on the table.

That's the number.
It's in here: http://blogs.und.edu/und-today/2017/02/starting-from-the-top/ 
It's about at the bottom in the bullet points. 

Now, knowing "12%" is the working number (most common) in that document, it tells me UND had done work already because the number heard from Bismarck (and from Bresciani at NDSU recently) is "20%". 

Or thinking of this further, $1.3 million is 12% of $10.8 million. But UND's Athletics budget is more like $22 to $24 million. That says some serious work was already done in there to make only $1.3 necessary now to reach the final goals. 

 

[UNDBIZ]

26 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

That's the number.
It's in here: http://blogs.und.edu/und-today/2017/02/starting-from-the-top/ 
It's about at the bottom in the bullet points. 

Now, knowing "12%" is the working number (most common) in that document, it tells me UND had done work already because the number heard from Bismarck (and from Bresciani at NDSU recently) is "20%". 

Or thinking of this further, $1.3 million is 12% of $10.8 million. But UND's Athletics budget is more like $22 to $24 million. That says some serious work was already done in there to make only $1.3 necessary now to reach the final goals. 

 

The 20% number is misleading. Und already cut 6.55% (+ extra to cover the 6.55% of the med school building) and UND will still be increasing tuition and fees 2-5%.

[AJS]

1 hour ago, iluvdebbies said:

Brad can't win....he's either a puppet or has a beef. I guess maybe it's a sign he's doing his job.

Brad is a puppet for the hockey programs, then tries to be a bad ass when it comes to Kennedy. I do think it has everything to do with Women's hockey, very touchy subject with him. 

Edit: I get it though, you get invested in something, it's easy to get defensive and not look at a situation clearly. 

[The Sicatoka]

Pure speculation, but I wonder if as long as there's women's hockey there's a "hockey beat" and everything else. No women's hockey and Brad has to pick up some other load.