Cutting Sports: Round 2

[Siouxphan27]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

So if you had a choice to cut 2-4 sports or cut just 1 sport to save the same amount of money, what is the more logical thing to do?

Blame Trump?

[The Sicatoka]

UND women's hockey started in the 2002-03 season. 
Mr. Engelstad died in November of 2002. 

No point; just throwing out random facts. 

[The Sicatoka]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

So if you had a choice to cut 2-4 sports or cut just 1 sport to save the same amount of money, what is the more logical thing to do?

Cut both sets.
Go to 16 total sports. 
Fund those at championship levels. 

Next question. 

[The Sicatoka]

9 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

Blame Trump?

 

[petey23]

4 hours ago, WiSioux said:

I personally enjoy women's hockey and attend the games while I am in town. I think with hockey being so popular in the area a lot of little girls grow up learning to skate and potentially playing hockey. If we cut the women's team, fewer girls will have the dream of playing hockey. I also enjoy the international flair on the team and having numerous women's players in international tournaments including the Olympics.

That being said, I live in Colorado and only make it to about a game a year. While attendance is higher now than when I was I college, it still seems small for the large building. I would think k for women's hockey, cutting the team will save you coaches salaries (although would there be a severance package?), travel, and equipment. You aren't saving money on facilities because the Ralph is still there.

I see both sides of the argument. I understand that women's hockey doesn't generate revenue. But a majority of the sports do not. I would look at lowering expenses for women's hockey and hope to keep it.

Club Team.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

16 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

UND women's hockey started in the 2002-03 season. 
Mr. Engelstad died in November of 2002. 

No point; just throwing out random facts. 

I think what you're trying to say is the formation of the women's hockey program killed Mr. Engelstad... I read ya

[The Sicatoka]

25 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

I think what you're trying to say is the formation of the women's hockey program killed Mr. Engelstad... I read ya

[planet2county]

4 hours ago, jdub27 said:

You actually are because you wouldn't have to it staff during games and open it up for practices. In terms of what the program costs, it is probably a small percentage, but it something.

I think most people see both sides of the argument but rightfully have an issue that it was (and still is to some) considered untouchable with no factual reason given, especially when the true numbers and ROI all the sudden were discussed publicly.

 

In the past decade, annual football expenses at a typical FCS school have increased from less than $2 million to $3.5 million. In the same period, revenue has expanded from $430,000 to $1 million.

Every time a school eliminates a sport, it blames the rising cost of scholarships or Title IX. But a growing body of independent research, including The Post’s, shows the real story. Example: Rutgers is $36.3 million in the red. In 2006, it pled necessity in cutting a half-dozen sports. Yet at the same time, Rutgers was spending $175,000 on hotel rooms for six home football games — more than the entire budget of the eliminated men’s tennis team.

 

[The Sicatoka]

We've heard about Illinois state budget issues and normally WIU is brought up. 

Well, there's this place called Southern Illinois ... 

Southern Illinois University announces cost-cutting measures in Athletics

Quote

... elimination of two sports (men's and women's tennis) and the reduction of scholarships in men's swimming & diving.

 

[The Sicatoka]

I've said before and stand by it:

If there must be college athletics* it should be team sports only. Real team sports. 

Want to go for a swim or a run** or bowling? Knock yourself out. Have at it. Ask your roommate to play tennis with you.***

A team sport is one where you need multiple players working in conjunction to participate.
If you can do what you do as a single competitor, that's not a team sport. 
Examples of team sports in my narrow-minded**** view? Basketball, volleyball, football, hockey, soccer, baseball, softball, lacrosse. 

Wrestling is not. Participants act individually. 
Tennis is not. You say "doubles". I say "singles". 
Swimming? No. And don't say relays. See "tennis". Same for T&F. 

That's my opinion. Rip away.  

 

*I'm still the curmudgeon that would like all sports out of educational institutions, but that's not the world we live in.
**I just PO'd siouxrunner.
***That was for you Brad. I know you're reading.  
****Yup. I admit that.  

[planet2county]

There’s a cost associated with that exposure, according to NCAA research. Subsidies increased an average of $1.2 million when teams reclassified from FCS to FBS.

When the report says the dependence on student fees will decrease, it doesn’t actually mean students will pay less. Currently, JMU student fees account for almost 80 percent of the $33 million it costs to fund JMU athletics. CarrSports’ report estimates that percentage will drop to 72.7 percent to 74.8 percent, but because expenses are expected to increase by 12.8 to 13.7 percent, the cost per student would still increase.

In fiscal year 2011, the program’s (UMass Amherst) last year in FCS, football expenses totaled $4.4 million, $3.2 of which came from university support, student fees and out-of-state tuition waivers.

UMass Amherst’s first year in the FBS was expected to cost $5.4 million with $4.4 coming from the university and students. Instead, expenses totaled $6.0 million, $5.0 million of which came from university sources and student fees.

Last fiscal year, the football budget was projected to be $6.5 million, with $4.2 million from the university and students. Instead, football expenses came in at $7.2 million, with at least $4.5 million from the university and students.

[Siouhawk]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

I've said before and stand by it:

If there must be college athletics* it should be team sports only. Real team sports. 

Want to go for a swim or a run** or bowling? Knock yourself out. Have at it. Ask your roommate to play tennis with you.***

A team sport is one where you need multiple players working in conjunction to participate.
If you can do what you do as a single competitor, that's not a team sport. 
Examples of team sports in my narrow-minded**** view? Basketball, volleyball, football, hockey, soccer, baseball, softball, lacrosse. 

Wrestling is not. Participants act individually. 
Tennis is not. You say "doubles". I say "singles". 
Swimming? No. And don't say relays. See "tennis". Same for T&F. 

That's my opinion. Rip away.  

 

*I'm still the curmudgeon that would like all sports out of educational institutions, but that's not the world we live in.
**I just PO'd siouxrunner.
***That was for you Brad. I know you're reading.  
****Yup. I admit that.  

Agree pretty much with what you say but I still have a problem with women's hockey even though it's a team sport. The rules have neutered it so bad it's no fun to watch and it cost a butt load of money.  

 

[planet2county]

7 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Cut both sets.
Go to 16 total sports. 
Fund those at championship levels. 

Next question. 

So advocating the set up below (Clemson's football facility) to stay at championship level?

Also outside is what's called the Player Village. It has a basketball court, a putt-putt course, a sand volleyball court, a whiffle ball court, more outdoor fire pits, a player pavilion and a lawn area in the shape of a football where players can set up yard games or chairs and watch a movie on a 20-by-20 foot pop-up movie screen. There are also grills and wood-burning fireplaces for the team to eat together.

"This was opened up yesterday for the players, and they wore this out last night," Turnipseed said.

Back inside, there's a player's lounge with Xbox games, arcade games, ping-pong tables, pool tables and a bowling alley.

[planet2county]

5 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Cut both sets.
Go to 16 total sports. 
Fund those at championship levels. 

Next question. 

After cutting the sports, would it better to divert money from football to basketball since we would probably get a better ROI at less cost?

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, planet2county said:

After cutting the sports, would it better to divert money from football to basketball since we would probably get a better ROI at less cost?

Possibly.  How do we know the ROI would be better, though?

[fightingsioux4life]

5 minutes ago, planet2county said:

After cutting the sports, would it better to divert money from football to basketball since we would probably get a better ROI at less cost?

You don't build an indoor practice facility big enough for FB to practice in and then cut their budget. That makes no sense.

[planet2county]

So the facility was just for football.  Are the costs for operation allocated to the football program?

[planet2county]

The point is for one program, it supposed be all about dollars and cents and ROI.  For other programs, it is about hyperbole such a potential and supposed prestige.  What is it going to cost to fund at championship levels?  How is it going to be funded?  What are those limits?  People advocate FBS thinking their is money to be made, show me the money.  I see people advocating to stay in what they consider a more "prestigious" conference when it costs the athletic department more.  Most people outside their regions couldn't tell you who is in the WAC, Big Sky, or Summit. 

 

 

 

[planet2county]

23 hours ago, AJS said:

It's hard to comprehend this post, do you think UND is looking at cutting sports just for fun? You do realize the budget crisis that North Dakota / UND is facing, right? Sports need to be cut. Lets get back to neutral and try again with your post taking those facts in hand. 

I can accept that you covering the team and as a fan of the sport you don't want it cut, but don't act like everyone here just wants Women's hockey to be cut, just because it would be fun. That's not the case. People are brainstorming ways (like Kennedy is doing) to figure out the most logical way out of this financial situation. 

Ok tell me how you are going reconcile costs rising faster than revenues in FCS football?   Since this a budget crisis and all, wouldn't it be prudent not to look only at cost of programs but costs within programs.

And for the record, I followed UND's football signing day.

[planet2county]

So I guess not wanting UND to continue to lose 1.5M dollars a year on one sport is somehow sexist!!

Since the average FCS team loses around 2.5 based on Bloomberg article, looking at costs shouldn't be a problem, right.

 

[The Sicatoka]

13 hours ago, planet2county said:

There’s a cost associated with that exposure, ... 

Uh, the all bold font? 

There's no need to shout. 

[The Sicatoka]

7 hours ago, planet2county said:

So I guess not wanting UND to continue to lose 1.5M dollars a year on one sport is somehow sexist!!

Since the average FCS team loses around 2.5 based on Bloomberg article, looking at costs shouldn't be a problem, right.

UND Womens Hockey IS losing $1,500,000.00 annually. And that's not a real number because they are paying $0.00 for use of REA. (The mens team covers 100% of that expense.) Put half the cost of REA ($2.23M) on the women and that number pushes their number up $1,100,000.00 to over $2,600,000.00. <-- OOPS! That's more than the average FCS FB team. 

Now, the average FCS team loses $2,500,000.00. The average. Please tell me the number for UND's FCS team so as to make a direct comparison. 

[The Sicatoka]

9 hours ago, planet2county said:

After cutting the sports, would it better to divert money from football to basketball since we would probably get a better ROI at less cost?

You could make that case; however, you also need to look at tertiary effects. 

I am unaware of any significant donors or donations to UND because of M/W Tennis players. However, I do know of significant donors due to football and basketball. That tertiary effect must be calculated into the ROI. 

[crb1]

I support the women's hockey team and hope it doesn't get cut but I also realize it needs to be looked at and certainly can't be taken off the table. If it is determined that it needs to be eliminated I will be disappointed but will understand the reason. 

[The Sicatoka]

Like I said earlier somewhere around here: 

Sacred cows are best on the grill with a nice South American sauce marinade.