UND to Summit/MVFC

[homer]

23 minutes ago, Nordlander said:

Fun fact!:

If you dig into the latest NCAA Revenue/Expenses reporting documents conveniently buried deep on the UND website, you'll find out tha Men's Hockey actually ran a LARGER deficit for the school than Women's Hockey in the last reporting year.

Let me repeat: Men's Hockey lost money and had to be subsidized.  And that subsidy was larger, as a straight dollar figure, than the Women's program.

The women "lost" approximately $1.2 million.

The men- about $1.5 million.

Yeah, the men's program drives revenue, but it doesn't cover the costs.  Even if you work in licensing and merchandise rights, and assume that was all driven by Men's Hockey, the program was STILL in the hole.

Welcome to the reality of college athletics.

Theres a reason we are making this move. When even our prestige sport can't pay its own way, finding ways to cut down on the overall department costs (and resulting need for subsidy) is paramount.

 

You may want to check the expenses allocated towards each if it's listed.  This was probably fine before the committee said each expense should be allocated towards the appropriate sport.   The numbers likely wouldn't look so favorable.  

[Smoggy]

4 hours ago, UND-1 said:

I believe the MVFC puts all their games on ESPN3, so no loss there.  

Most all of the Summit BB games are on ESPN3, as well.  

Do they put the women's basketball games there?  I know volleyball isn't free to watch as NDSU wanted $7 to watch the match.  For me, not being able to view road games for free is a huge detriment.  If I'm home I throw the game on the computer.

[North Dakota]

1 hour ago, Siouxphan27 said:

so the reward has been better students, which seems very subjective, and the community has had the privilege of spending more money.   and more people in the country have heard of you.   some non diehard sports fans may argue this really isn't worth it. 

Do you know how much it would cost to buy 2 hours of ad space on ESPN? If you don't think that was worth it what makes any sports D1, D2, D3 worth spending money on? Maybe we should just shutter the entire athletic program and use that money elsewhere.

[iramurphy]

9 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

UND is working extremely hard with alumni and friends to help us through these financial challenges ahead. Most of that energy isn't directly about sports, but many times sports at UND are somehow in that equation of conversation, and that is an immeasurable asset.

Not sure I agree with this.  Some of the biggest supporters of UND athletics had no idea this was a done deal other than the rumors that we might look into it.  There was a group that met at homecoming discussing some solutions to solving the financial shortfall on an annual basis.  We also heard we are losing up to $1,000,000 per year by not launching our new brand and logo.  The problem was exacerbated by the fact that the group couldn't get a target number of dollars needed.  If we need $400,000 more per year it is an easier task than $1,000,000 per year.  Kennedy told an alumni group at Jamestown this past summer he was going to look at how the AC was doing things.  No surprise a politician without UND ties took the easy way out.

It's a done deal as far as the move, but I'm of the opinion we tackle the problem and raise the funds so we move forward from a position of strength rather than weakness.  We should be making the move to the MVC/Summit based on  it is what is best for UND now and the foreseeable future.  We should not make a move because we feel we must in order to survive.  This problem didn't show up over night.  If we can't gather the momentum and resources to support our athletic programs, then we have the wrong people running our athletic department.  If this is the best move for UND then it should come with fanfare and celebration.  We can and should be so much better.  We also need to get phase II of the practice facility done so we have facilities as good or better than the other schools in the MVC/Summit.

[cowboys5xsbs]

We had no rivalries in Big Sky football.  There was no game where you had to stop and watch it.  The games were fun but there was no true rival.  There was no hostile away crowd.  Just look at the atmosphere for a Minnesota hockey game or NDSU football game.  When I was at UND, they restarted the basketball rivalry with NDSU and that first game had way more intensity and craziness than any other basketball game.  I went to quite a few basketball games and quite frankly the atmosphere was very boring.  The only thing that came anywhere close was Weber State in basketball and that was mainly gaining steam do to postseason games, but was still nowhere near the other rivalries we have.  

[The Sicatoka]

1 hour ago, Nordlander said:

Fun fact!:

If you dig into the latest NCAA Revenue/Expenses reporting documents conveniently buried deep on the UND website, you'll find out tha Men's Hockey actually ran a LARGER deficit for the school than Women's Hockey in the last reporting year.

Let me repeat: Men's Hockey lost money and had to be subsidized.  And that subsidy was larger, as a straight dollar figure, than the Women's program.

The women "lost" approximately $1.2 million.

The men- about $1.5 million.

Yeah, the men's program drives revenue, but it doesn't cover the costs.  Even if you work in licensing and merchandise rights, and assume that was all driven by Men's Hockey, the program was STILL in the hole.

Welcome to the reality of college athletics.

Theres a reason we are making this move. When even our prestige sport can't pay its own way, finding ways to cut down on the overall department costs (and resulting need for subsidy) is paramount.

 

 

You mean the report that put all the expenses for use of REA onto mens hockey, just mens hockey, and none onto the other tenants, namely:

- womens hockey
- mens basketball 
- womens basketball
- womens volleyball
- womens soccer (they have lockers in there) 

You must mean the report I'm looking at right now, because I keep a PDF of it on my computer, page 33 of 53, "Section 34: Athletic Facilities Debt Service, Leases and Rental Fee", where $2,234,982 was charged to mens hockey and $0 was charged to any of the other REA tenants noted above? 

That report? 

Never heard of it.

 

PS - Your first post, ... not so great.  You should look back in the history here. All this was hashed out when the IAC was looking at Athletics. We were doing better forensic accounting than they were. 

 

[SIOUXFAN97]

so who becomes the 12th football member?  wichita state?

[bang]

1 hour ago, Nordlander said:

Fun fact!:

If you dig into the latest NCAA Revenue/Expenses reporting documents conveniently buried deep on the UND website, you'll find out tha Men's Hockey actually ran a LARGER deficit for the school than Women's Hockey in the last reporting year.

Let me repeat: Men's Hockey lost money and had to be subsidized.  And that subsidy was larger, as a straight dollar figure, than the Women's program.

The women "lost" approximately $1.2 million.

The men- about $1.5 million.

Yeah, the men's program drives revenue, but it doesn't cover the costs.  Even if you work in licensing and merchandise rights, and assume that was all driven by Men's Hockey, the program was STILL in the hole.

Welcome to the reality of college athletics.

Theres a reason we are making this move. When even our prestige sport can't pay its own way, finding ways to cut down on the overall department costs (and resulting need for subsidy) is paramount.

 

It's accounting. They like things balanced. Common sense would tell a person that when a team sells over 11,000 seats for 20+ games a year with an average seat price over $30 that team would need hellacious overhead not to make money. Not to mention the ton of big donors, suites and all the rest of the money thrown at that program. I'm a football guy and would love for football to be top dog but common sense tells me Men's Hockey is making a ton of money and covering a lot of other sports butts. 

[The Sicatoka]

10 minutes ago, bang said:

... Men's Hockey is making a ton of money and covering a lot of other sports butts. 

Just by covering all the expenses for the use of REA, mens hockey is covering all or part of FIVE other sports' facilities needs. 

[homer]

48 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Not sure I agree with this.  Some of the biggest supporters of UND athletics had no idea this was a done deal other than the rumors that we might look into it.  There was a group that met at homecoming discussing some solutions to solving the financial shortfall on an annual basis.  We also heard we are losing up to $1,000,000 per year by not launching our new brand and logo.  The problem was exacerbated by the fact that the group couldn't get a target number of dollars needed.  If we need $400,000 more per year it is an easier task than $1,000,000 per year.  Kennedy told an alumni group at Jamestown this past summer he was going to look at how the AC was doing things.  No surprise a politician without UND ties took the easy way out.

It's a done deal as far as the move, but I'm of the opinion we tackle the problem and raise the funds so we move forward from a position of strength rather than weakness.  We should be making the move to the MVC/Summit based on  it is what is best for UND now and the foreseeable future.  We should not make a move because we feel we must in order to survive.  This problem didn't show up over night.  If we can't gather the momentum and resources to support our athletic programs, then we have the wrong people running our athletic department.  If this is the best move for UND then it should come with fanfare and celebration.  We can and should be so much better.  We also need to get phase II of the practice facility done so we have facilities as good or better than the other schools in the MVC/Summit.

I agree with this post and it is very well said.  We should not stop at changing conferences.  Need to cut sports and truly fund programs at a "championship level" like Kennedy said.  If we do this, it will make this move much better.  If we only change conferences and change nothing else I don't get as excited about it. 

[homer]

43 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

We had no rivalries in Big Sky football.  There was no game where you had to stop and watch it.  The games were fun but there was no true rival.  There was no hostile away crowd.  Just look at the atmosphere for a Minnesota hockey game or NDSU football game.  When I was at UND, they restarted the basketball rivalry with NDSU and that first game had way more intensity and craziness than any other basketball game.  I went to quite a few basketball games and quite frankly the atmosphere was very boring.  The only thing that came anywhere close was Weber State in basketball and that was mainly gaining steam do to postseason games, but was still nowhere near the other rivalries we have.  

You don't develop rivalries when you are on the losing end of most games.  Sitting behind the visitors bench at the Alerus it is crazy how much more intense the games have gotten and other teams have become over the last two years.  If we string together a couple more years similar to the last two, I almost guarantee by 2020 we will be circled on teams calendars and they will be happy to see us go for reasons other than the travel. 

[UNDBIZ]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

 

You mean the report that put all the expenses for use of REA onto mens hockey, just mens hockey, and none onto the other tenants, namely:

- womens hockey
- mens basketball 
- womens basketball
- womens volleyball
- womens soccer (they have lockers in there) 

You must mean the report I'm looking at right now, because I keep a PDF of it on my computer, page 33 of 53, "Section 34: Athletic Facilities Debt Service, Leases and Rental Fee", where $2,234,982 was charged to mens hockey and $0 was charged to any of the other REA tenants noted above? 

That report? 

Never heard of it.

 

PS - Your first post, ... not so great.  You should look back in the history here. All this was hashed out when the IAC was looking at Athletics. We were doing better forensic accounting than they were. 

 

Also, champions club donations aren't allocated to any specific sport in those reports when 80% are from men's hockey, 20% are from football, and 0% are from all other sports (my guesstimates only, but the 3rd number is accurate).

[Vegas_Sioux]

6 hours ago, bincitysioux said:

Can't believe we will be playing in a league with 3 different time zones.......

and North Dakota may permanently be in Central Standard Time when it happens

[AJS]

So, what happened with the vote today?

[darell1976]

6 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

SV is fine, he said he was taking some time away; but, you'd better go find lakes ... 

Lets not.

[bison73]

7 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

SV is fine, he said he was taking some time away; but, you'd better go find lakes ... 

Lakes is down in the cities trying to convince everyone he meets that he is a Goofer fan.

[jdub27]

Announcement in the BESC at 1:30 this afternoon.

[Cratter]

I've been preaching "Conference Manifest Destiny" for years here now about how the 4 Dakota teams are meant to be together in the same conference, so to me today comes as no big surprise and was expected eventually. 

These four teams with Omaha and Denver could turn the Summit into a basketball conference that rivals the Missouri Valley. The Summit is far different today than the Gateway Conference (edit: as pointed out below that would be Mid Continent Conference not Gateway) used to be.

After joining the Big Sky, I noticed its bark was louder than its bite. 

[supersioux]

20 hours ago, bincitysioux said:

Can't believe we will be playing in a league with 3 different time zones.......

Sounds like the NCHC

[zonadub]

Really like the Big Sky, but it has become a bit bloated for a 1 bid conference. A lot of that bloat does not compete for conference championships but does drag the RPI down. So is there ever a possibility of the Summit getting more than 1 bid to something like March madness?

[jdub27]

21 minutes ago, Cratter said:

The Summit is far different today than the Gateway Conference it used to be.

Since we're going to be members, might as well get the history straightened out:

The Summit League was never known as the Gateway, it was the Mid-Continent Conference, changing its name in 2007.

The MVFC was the one that had ties to the Gateway, known as the Gateway Football Conference before changing its name in 2008. It has a pretty winding history (stolen from Wikipedia):

Quote

Missouri Valley Football Conference has a convoluted history that involves three other conferences:

• Missouri Valley Conference (MVC): A long-established conference, in existence since 1907, that sponsored football until 1985. In its last years as a football conference, it was a hybrid league that included teams in NCAA Divisions I-A (today's FBS) and I-AA (now FCS).
• Gateway Collegiate Athletic Conference (Gateway): A women's sports conference founded in 1982 by MVC member schools
• Association of Mid-Continent Universities (AMCU): An all-sports conference, also founded in 1982, that sponsored football at the I-AA level through the 1984 season. The AMCU had absorbed the Mid-Continent Athletic Association, a football-only league founded in 1978. (After dropping football, the AMCU later became the Mid-Continent Conference, and is now The Summit League.)

In 1985, the MVC stopped sponsoring football. At that time, the two remaining I-AA members from the MVC (Illinois State and Southern Illinois) joined Eastern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Southwest Missouri State, and Western Illinois from the AMCU and together became a football conference under the Gateway's auspices Indiana State, which had left MVC football after the 1981 season to become a Division I-AA independent while remaining a full MVC member, would join the next year.

In 1992, when the Gateway Collegiate Athletic Conference merged with the MVC, the football conference kept the Gateway charter, with a minor name change to Gateway Football Conference.

The Gateway Football Conference changed its name to the Missouri Valley Football Conference in June 2008. This change aligned the conference with the Missouri Valley Conference, a conference in which five of the nine Missouri Valley Football schools were (and still are) all-sports members. The conferences continue to share the "Missouri Valley" name, and space in the same building in Saint Louis, Missouri, but remain separate administratively

 

[Cratter]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Since we're going to be members, might as well get the history straightened out:

The Summit League was never known as the Gateway, it was the Mid-Continent Conference, changing its name in 2007.

 

Yeah Midco Conference. Got the two former names mixed up.

[Westside]

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20170126110256991647504&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS

some good points/facts in here.  

[Siouxperman8]

One positive - If recent history holds - a team in the MVFC only needs to get to 6 wins to make the playoffs.

[UNDvince97-01]

Just now, Siouxperman8 said:

One positive - If recent history holds - a team in the MVFC only needs to get to 6 wins to make the playoffs.

Ha!  Yep, good point.