Future of the UND Football Program

[Hawkster]

I'm not sure which is worse about Bubba, missing the playoffs way too often or only having one win and that came against  Misery State.   But really, I blame Danny as much as Bubba.

[SWSiouxMN]

1 hour ago, Hawkster said:

I'm not sure which is worse about Bubba, missing the playoffs way too often or only having one win and that came against  Misery State.   But really, I blame Danny as much as Bubba.

This bothers me more. 

 

[SkoHawks]

I think no matter where you stand on Bubba or the portal, we can all agree if only EA Sports would restart NCAA Football for playstation/Xbox we'd all be able to tell what the problem is and we'd get our championship eventually. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

22 hours ago, siouxfan512 said:

You don’t need a UND business degree to know you invest in your money maker, and hockey brings in the bacon. Also, the Ralph is a poor example to use as one of the most unique donation scenarios in college. I soooo wish we had a big time donor to come in and put Ralph style cash in for football. HPC, on campus stadium, staffing, the works.

All that being said, I do think football could be a money maker, with some perennial success. Need more funding, needs consistent winning. Which has to come first? Probably a little of both.

Hockey is the money maker because it received a significant starter donation and since continues to receive the financial majority year after year. That cycle needs to be interrupted before things change and rationalizing this - like you just did - won’t help a damn thing. 
 

In FCS football, with no major television contract revenue like FBS schools have, universities are always dependent on donors to keep things running. UND’s donors are partly brainwashed by the perpetual cycle of hockey investment as per above. This is a major culture issue, in my opinion, that I don’t expect to change anytime soon nor will longtime conservative folks around UND want it to change. It is what it is. And football, basketball, volleyball, etc. success at UND will continue to be largely limited by it until the cycle is broken. 
 

you are right in that $ will solve this and if someone stepped up, whether private or organizationally, and donated a significant amount to UND football, then perhaps things would change. But simple donations to the overall athletic department won’t do a damn thing due to the current culture of UND athletics. 

[SWSiouxMN]

51 minutes ago, SkoHawks said:

I think no matter where you stand on Bubba or the portal, we can all agree if only EA Sports would restart NCAA Football for playstation/Xbox we'd all be able to tell what the problem is and we'd get our championship eventually. 

The day that happens will be the day I buy a gaming system once again.  

Throw basketball in there and we are set. 

[Nodak78]

7 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

 

Decade?  How about the single worst coaching move in North Dakota football history...

Not calling a TO on the 4th and 1......

at our own 20.....

in the second half.....

with the lead....

vs our greatest rival....

whom...we have been owned by for 18 years....

You must to Young.  I remember this coach.

. In 1980, Pat Behrns took over as head coach. Although he amassed a record of 36–27 in six seasons leading the program, North Dakota never qualified for the playoffs nor did they win a conference title under Behrns' direction. Following a dreadful 3–8 season in 1985 that culminated in a 49–0 loss to arch rival NDSU Bison, Behrns resigned as head coach of North Dakota.  He burned a lot of red shirts his last year. 

[Irish]

I think a lot of the frustration here is that we know that there is no friend, fan, assistant coach, or athletic department personnel that will tell Bubba what he needs to know in a manner that will soak in.  We will get the same Game Manager Bubba next year as we had this year.  The guy is clueless.  

[Sioux>Bison]

9 minutes ago, Irish said:

I think a lot of the frustration here is that we know that there is no friend, fan, assistant coach, or athletic department personnel that will tell Bubba what he needs to know in a manner that will soak in.  We will get the same Game Manager Bubba next year as we had this year.  The guy is clueless.  

Well someone talked to him after last season about being too conservative on 4th downs. I don’t recall one 4th down in the 2019 or 2020 season where we went for it on an optional 4th down play and we always punted. 
 

this season we finally saw Bubba grow a pair and go for it on more 4th downs than we probably should have. He risked it in the wrong situations and that bite us. I also think there was still some we punted that were more ideal situations than others so the decision making needs to get better. I don’t think Bubba is unwilling to change and I also doubt that people close to the program are having their concerns ignored by Bubba.

[Irish]

56 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Well someone talked to him after last season about being too conservative on 4th downs. I don’t recall one 4th down in the 2019 or 2020 season where we went for it on an optional 4th down play and we always punted. 
 

this season we finally saw Bubba grow a pair and go for it on more 4th downs than we probably should have. He risked it in the wrong situations and that bite us. I also think there was still some we punted that were more ideal situations than others so the decision making needs to get better. I don’t think Bubba is unwilling to change and I also doubt that people close to the program are having their concerns ignored by Bubba.

Next year's topic - clock management - be afraid, be very afraid.

[nodak651]

With the portal, investment in modern facilities will be more important than ever now.

[Frozen4sioux]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:13 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

Can’t afford football coach buyouts …

Can’t afford better football coaches …

Can’t afford to complete phase II of Fritz Pollard Jr. Athletic Center …

A lot of financial constraints for a University that has a $100 million hockey arena and pumps $ into hockey updates every season…

Point is, the issue remains that UND treats all non-hockey sports as a red-headed stepchild.

UND football will continue to have up and down seasons until this changes to a degree. 

 

 

3 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Hockey is the money maker because it received a significant starter donation and since continues to receive the financial majority year after year. That cycle needs to be interrupted before things change and rationalizing this - like you just did - won’t help a damn thing. 
 

In FCS football, with no major television contract revenue like FBS schools have, universities are always dependent on donors to keep things running. UND’s donors are partly brainwashed by the perpetual cycle of hockey investment as per above. This is a major culture issue, in my opinion, that I don’t expect to change anytime soon nor will longtime conservative folks around UND want it to change. It is what it is. And football, basketball, volleyball, etc. success at UND will continue to be largely limited by it until the cycle is broken. 
 

you are right in that $ will solve this and if someone stepped up, whether private or organizationally, and donated a significant amount to UND football, then perhaps things would change. But simple donations to the overall athletic department won’t do a damn thing due to the current culture of UND athletics. 

I stand by my ascertation that somebody in hockey hurt you and you just cant get over it... I hope you can get the help you need.

Blaming the state of football once again and forever on your seething  jealous hatred hasn't really worked,  and never will btw....

Football is what 8 -10 of the nicest days of the year, in a warehouse, to watch a team that at best hopes to compete in an overlooked tier2 division... it can be fun, but the University has made it almost impossible to succeed long term by trying to keep up with the Joneses...

Could have been a perennial, and more importantly relevant D2 powerhouse..... but no... had to have the field inside.... had to be in the big boy club, had to have the D1 (nevermind the asterik) beside the "name".

And for this UND forever sacrificed every sport down the ladder as completly irrelevant and unable to compete in any real way. 

I hope one day UND football is relevant again, I do, but to argue that  other programs need to have their success interrupted in order for football to have a chance is just petty and sad, it's a loser mentality. 

Thats the last thing football needs any more of. 

Winners back Winners son. It's a simple as that. 

Good luck with your demons. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

6 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

You must to Young.  I remember this coach.

. In 1980, Pat Behrns took over as head coach. Although he amassed a record of 36–27 in six seasons leading the program, North Dakota never qualified for the playoffs nor did they win a conference title under Behrns' direction. Following a dreadful 3–8 season in 1985 that culminated in a 49–0 loss to arch rival NDSU Bison, Behrns resigned as head coach of North Dakota.  He burned a lot of red shirts his last year. 

I didn’t say worst coach In UND history, I said single worst coaching move in UND history.  In many ways Bubba is a really good coach, just not in that moment vs NDSU.

[Midwestern Hawk]

3 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

 

I stand by my ascertation that somebody in hockey hurt you and you just cant get over it... I hope you can get the help you need.

Blaming the state of football once again and forever on your seething  jealous hatred hasn't really worked,  and never will btw....

Football is what 8 -10 of the nicest days of the year, in a warehouse, to watch a team that at best hopes to compete in an overlooked tier2 division... it can be fun, but the University has made it almost impossible to succeed long term by trying to keep up with the Joneses...

Could have been a perennial, and more importantly relevant D2 powerhouse..... but no... had to have the field inside.... had to be in the big boy club, had to have the D1 (nevermind the asterik) beside the "name".

And for this UND forever sacrificed every sport down the ladder as completly irrelevant and unable to compete in any real way. 

I hope one day UND football is relevant again, I do, but to argue that  other programs need to have their success interrupted in order for football to have a chance is just petty and sad, it's a loser mentality. 

Thats the last thing football needs any more of. 

Winners back Winners son. It's a simple as that. 

Good luck with your demons. 

You make some decent points, but the decision on football really needs to be about the profile of the university.  
 
UND has a great hockey tradition and fantastic facilities and is definitely known in college hockey hotbeds as the “hockey school”.  The problem with that for the university as a whole is those “hotbeds” consist of Minnesota, the Red River Valley, and greater Boston.  
 

To 99% of the US population, college in North Dakota is NDSU.  As an alum, that bothers the crap out of me and there is only one solution to that problem and it is NOT for UND to become a D2 powerhouse or have a strong women’s volleyball team.

[Oxbow6]

Not that one player makes a total difference in a program but Seth Anderson will be making his way up I29. He'll definitely be a big addition.

[homer]

9 hours ago, Irish said:

I think a lot of the frustration here is that we know that there is no friend, fan, assistant coach, or athletic department personnel that will tell Bubba what he needs to know in a manner that will soak in.  We will get the same Game Manager Bubba next year as we had this year.  The guy is clueless.  

Bubba is a pretty approachable guy, feel free to reach out and share your opinion. 

[The Sicatoka]

I humbly submit the following to Bubba for off-season reading. 
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2017/9/14/16300604/college-football-fourth-down-conversions 

Now if the chart's conversion rates (across the top) are not UND's the chart would need updating for UND. But that chart should be in someone's hands on the sideline or press box. Some'll say "gut!" but under pressure with a clock running having the decision pre-made is smart. 

Note this reference only goes out to 60 yards from the goal line. At 80 yards out it clearly implies punt. 

Mentioning "in hands", I assume they also have one of these (thank you rocky top). Again, pre-make the decisions for efficiency in managing the game. 
https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/510/890/3890510.jpg 

[Siouxperman8]

10 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

You must to Young.  I remember this coach.

. In 1980, Pat Behrns took over as head coach. Although he amassed a record of 36–27 in six seasons leading the program, North Dakota never qualified for the playoffs nor did they win a conference title under Behrns' direction. Following a dreadful 3–8 season in 1985 that culminated in a 49–0 loss to arch rival NDSU Bison, Behrns resigned as head coach of North Dakota.  He burned a lot of red shirts his last year. 

I played for Pat.  We had decent years for his first few years but then it fell apart.   We still had some of Murph's players for a time and Pat did get some good players too but he lost the team my last 2 years and they didn't respect him.  Football is really hard when your best players basically roll their eyes after the coach's speech that's meant to fire the team up.

Pat was young and micromanaged the program and all of his assistants.  It was just too much and every assistant coach and athletic trainer spot turned over in the 4 years I was there.  Who they recruited had to be Pat's idea.  One former assistant told me this story - if they liked a player they'd show him the film but claim they were interested in a different player.  They'd say - we really like #10 but check out #33 also.  We think #10 can be a stud but #33 is kind of so-so.   Pat would say - what do you mean?   #33 is the guy we want and let's go after him.  If they started with - we think we should recruit #33, he wasn't interested. 

That being said - making the playoffs was much harder then.   Only 8 teams made it nationally.  we were 7-3 and 8-3 two of those years and would have made the playoffs if the took the number of teams they take now.

[gfhockey]

What was our 4th conversion rate?

 

also any link to final stats? I want to see Quincy rushing stats

[Midwestern Hawk]

3 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

What was our 4th conversion rate?

 

also any link to final stats? I want to see Quincy rushing stats

52% on 4th down

14	Vaughn, Quincy	11	38	141	7	134	3.5	1	18	12.18

 

https://fightinghawks.com/sports/football/stats/2021

[geaux_sioux]

6 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

 

I stand by my ascertation that somebody in hockey hurt you and you just cant get over it... I hope you can get the help you need.

Blaming the state of football once again and forever on your seething  jealous hatred hasn't really worked,  and never will btw....

Football is what 8 -10 of the nicest days of the year, in a warehouse, to watch a team that at best hopes to compete in an overlooked tier2 division... it can be fun, but the University has made it almost impossible to succeed long term by trying to keep up with the Joneses...

Could have been a perennial, and more importantly relevant D2 powerhouse..... but no... had to have the field inside.... had to be in the big boy club, had to have the D1 (nevermind the asterik) beside the "name".

And for this UND forever sacrificed every sport down the ladder as completly irrelevant and unable to compete in any real way. 

I hope one day UND football is relevant again, I do, but to argue that  other programs need to have their success interrupted in order for football to have a chance is just petty and sad, it's a loser mentality. 

Thats the last thing football needs any more of. 

Winners back Winners son. It's a simple as that. 

Good luck with your demons. 

The majority of America doesn’t give two shits about college hockey. It’s on par with lacrosse for them. 

[The Sicatoka]

22 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

The majority of America doesn’t give two shits about college hockey. It’s on par with lacrosse for them. 

That is accurate, but neither do you kill a golden goose when you have one. 

 

And yes, I still think UND should have lax as a spring mens sport if we had resources for it. Yes, even over baseball. 

[jdub27]

30 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Mentioning "in hands", I assume they also have one of these (thank you rocky top). Again, pre-make the decisions for efficiency in managing the game. 
https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/510/890/3890510.jpg 

You see decisions that are questioned across every single level of football, including the NFL. It has been going on since the beginning of time and won't stop. Coaches operate on more than just "the numbers" and they may or may not be correct when taking the human element into account

For example, twice in the 4th quarter last week, Pittsburgh was down by 14 and scored a TD to be down by 8, pending an extra try attempt.
Analytics say that you should go for 2 in that situation, as it increases your odds of winning by ~2%.
Yet the Steelers (and plenty of other teams) ignore that.
Interestingly enough, your chart actually agrees with Pittsburgh despite the expected increase in chances of winning. Meaning all charts aren't necessarily created equal.

[The Sicatoka]

We (meaning the coaching staff) can discuss chart contents between games. And I agree not everyone's chart will be the same. 

But having a chart, having the decision pre-made, so you don't make a bad decision under pressure, is what I'm looking for: game management. 

 

 ... words here about failing to plan is planning to fail ... 

[Midwestern Hawk]

7 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

We (meaning the coaching staff) can discuss chart contents between games. And I agree not everyone's chart will be the same. 

But having a chart, having the decision pre-made, so you don't make a bad decision under pressure, is what I'm looking for: game management. 

 

 ... words here about failing to plan is planning to fail ... 

Now that is a major bingo!

[UND1983]

There is a chart for getting sacked on 1st and 10 with over a minute left?

Every coach for sure has a plan for that so they don't have to think at all or make a decision in-game.