2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

[yzerman19]

I’m hearing about summer camps requiring masks...really?  It’s all over...I had my son drink water out of a fast moving clear stream in the mountains to help him learn not to be afraid...he coulda gotten giardia- not likely from where we were.  Natives drank that water for a thousand years.  Some nanny stater would probably want me arrested.  Nobody can die, nobody can get sick, nobody can get hurt, nobody can lose, nobody can feel badly or be offended. Guess what?  all those things are part of the human experience.  Just wait...pretty soon it will be about money.  Nobody can fail...we’re the richest country in earth...next thing you know...universal income and socialism.  Working your ass off, acquiring debt, getting educated in a valuable skill so you can make a few hundred grand a year which once was the American dream will be vilified and it won’t just be the ultra wealthy that pay the price...it will be doctors, lawyers, executives, small business owners...people making $250-$500k that get crucified.

[yzerman19]

Just now, TheFlop said:

Unfortunately I find some of the Brits coverage of the US more objective than much of what is found in the US.

Funny you say that.  Only news I watch is BBC 

[bison73]

7 hours ago, UNDlaw80 said:

Like any competent country does, sheltering-in-place is augmented with mass testing, followed by quarantining those infected, followed by mass tracing, followed by mass anti-body testing. The point is to stay ahead of the Covid spread, after which you can formulate a step by step process to open based on readily available info and criteria being met.  Unfortunately we don't even have mass testing available to citizens.

Is this process intrusive?  Without a doubt.  Rightly or wrongly, this is the plan we chose by initiating the lock-down.  But we half-a$$ed it.  

 If you’re gonna do something, you go ‘all-in’.  We didn’t.  And here we are stuck in neutral.  

Considering that this virus is new please explain how the govt was supposed to pull testing kits out of their ass to do what you think is just a snap of the fingers.

How long does it take to develop a testing process that actually works on a new virus? How long does it take to get a manufacture to retool his equipment and get the raw materials to manufacture said testing equipment and its packaging? How long does it take to implement the logistics for the training , distribution and reporting?

Why was everything supposedly half assed????  One was WHO misinformation  . Two the CDC and FDA used the old playbook and plodded along using old guidelines and would not vary. Plus they were also looking at WHO for guidance.

[yzerman19]

I’m ready to accept the consequences of war with China.  You know what this pandemic has shown them? That the USA will cower in fear of losing 80,000 people. 

[Oxbow6]

"There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust".....Dr. Birx quoted in a recent Washington Post article. Same article states Birx fears CDC mortality rate and case counts were inflated by up to 25%.

[UND1983]

Look for Birx to be immediately attacked by the blue checkmark loser brigade.  

[Cratter]

Looks like if you live in Minnesota and dont live in a nursing home your chances of dying are extremely low.

80% of MN corona deaths are people living in nursing homes.

Which seems to continue the trend regionally and a big part of the nation.

 

[Redneksioux]

1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

"There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust".....Dr. Birx quoted in a recent Washington Post article. Same article states Birx fears CDC mortality rate and case counts were inflated by up to 25%.

So we can't trust the WHO and we can't trust the CDC. The NIH was funding the Wuhan lab so we can't even trust them. What health organizations can we trust?

[UND1983]

11 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

So we can't trust the WHO and we can't trust the CDC. The NIH was funding the Wuhan lab so we can't even trust them. What health organizations can we trust?

Starting to catch on.  

They all provide information and use their resources to guide countries through this process.  But it is quite obvious they dont exactly know what they're dealing with, much like everyone else. 

People who blindly follow the CDC are forgetting they are a government agency - does anybody blindly trust our government for other things?  A piece of the puzzle.

[The Sicatoka]

8 hours ago, TheFlop said:

Unfortunately I find some of the Brits coverage of the US more objective than much of what is found in the US.

It's been that way for over a decade. 

[SWSiouxMN]

There went the NoDak State Fair

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/6485886-North-Dakota-State-Fair-canceled-due-to-COVID-19

[The Sicatoka]

8 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

I’m ready to accept the consequences of war with China.  You know what this pandemic has shown them? That the USA will cower in fear of losing 80,000 people. 

No.
When I say make them pay I mean make them pay.

China holds about $1.3 trillion (with a T) of US sovereign debt.

I say void all that paper: Void all US debt held by China.  

Tell them they can use it for toilet paper, because that's all it's worth now. 

 

If they don't like it, well, they've already de facto started an economic war. If China wants to go next level, let them start that also. We'll finish that too. (Let the first Trident D-5 "party favor" land on Wuhan.) 

[MafiaMan]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

Tell them they can use it for toilet paper, because that's all it's worth now. 

I’m not sure where you’re from, but where I live, toilet paper is worth quite a bit these days!

[CarpeRemote]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:33 PM, UNDlaw80 said:

Like any competent country does, sheltering-in-place is augmented with mass testing, followed by quarantining those infected, followed by mass tracing, followed by mass anti-body testing. The point is to stay ahead of the Covid spread, after which you can formulate a step by step process to open based on readily available info and criteria being met.  Unfortunately we don't even have mass testing available to citizens.

Is this process intrusive?  Without a doubt.  Rightly or wrongly, this is the plan we chose by initiating the lock-down.  But we half-a$$ed it.  

 If you’re gonna do something, you go ‘all-in’.  We didn’t.  And here we are stuck in neutral.  

I understand your position but but hindsight is easy. All-in in January and  much of February couldn’t have happened under any democratic government.  

In December and January we weren’t aware the CCP had discontinued flights from Wuhan to Shanghai and Beijing but yet allowed 10,000’s of of superspreaders to seed the USA and Europe. We didn’t know China went from a net exporter of PPE to importing at least 2 Billion of PPE late Nov through Feb. 
 

I’m not happy with the situation; my rear view glasses say the admin could have asked for a lockdown a tiny bit sooner but I’m not sure if that was truly possible without the WHO and Fauci. What I would have done differently was order a 100% nationwide lockdown for 30 days the day the WHO and CDC finally got off-center. But there were immediate constitutional arguments (and still are) 

 I think Trump made flight-ban calls as early as made medical and economic sense. He was a maybe a little late on Europe, but NY was already seeded. It would have been nearly impossible politically to lock down business in January or February from a political, medical, or economic standpoint based on available information. Politically the pushback from both parties, unlikely bedfellows like corporate America, coffee shop owners, and plaintiff attorneys, would have made it impossible without better cover from the WHO and CDC.
 

To the administration’s credit, in January with limited information they worked with Gilead and Regeneron from a regulatory standpoint fast-tracking drugs. They asked Honeywell to begin outfitting  two medical mask factories, and Trump stopped Chinese flights. Based on what we know now, one week wouldn’t have mattered.   
 

Information is key to real time decisions and we lacked the info to ask for a Manhattan project for test kits in November and December. Our biotech industry is the best because there is profit involved. And there was no incentive in creating tests at that time so a Manhattan project was the only answer but the administration couldn’t have possibly pulled 10 Billion (or any dollar amount) out of the house or senate to fund a project with the private sector, or even for research hospitals. Dems would have pushed back for for political gain and Republicans would have refused for political and economic reasons. It’s the price we pay for being a Democratic Republic. Trump is not a king and I think he acted mostly appropriately in a complicated situation.  
 

It’s May and despite focused efforts, just now has the world's best Pharma industry and research hospitals been able to produce a likely game changer, an antigen test that can be read with Sofia machines already in place in primary care offices. Two weeks lead-time wouldn’t have changed things.
 

The Sofia machine antibody test wasn’t as simple as ordering it done. It’s a $5 test and takes 5 minutes. it’s 85% accurate but it’s good enough to change how we test employees so they can work. It still needs to be done in an office but I assume their will be assembly line style testing (test an entire restaurant chain or manufacturer shift)  at some point. That won’t happen overnight but now we have the tool. 

The most reliable test was in place pretty early but it’s expensive, takes a day or two to get results, and can’t be read in an office. It still can’t be mass produced or read in high volumes. It’s the best we still have and there was no way to make it available en mass even with another 3-4 weeks lead time.  
 

From someone who has been for an air-tight lockdown (early on) and for people to voluntarily wear masks now, (so we can protect people a little more and to get us all back to work), I’m not placing political blame on anyone except maybe de Blasio who’s hubris cost us dearly, but Imo nitpicking now is wasted energy. 
(typed this quickly on a phone so please overlook bad grammar and structure)

[Walsh Hall]

1 hour ago, SWSiouxMN said:

There went the NoDak State Fair

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/6485886-North-Dakota-State-Fair-canceled-due-to-COVID-19

I understand that for all the vendors, etc. it's preferable to not cancel the event the week before the gates open, but this is absolutely crazy.  An outdoor event... in July... in ND.  I wouldn't have been in attendance, but with more and more events being cancelled that give us something to look forward to, and give us hope,  the bleaker this is feeling.  I couldn't care less about the State Fair, but that was a punch in the gut for some reason.

If all public events are still cancelled through the time that snow flies in late 2020 us Northern folks are going to be going crazy.

[dlsiouxfan]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

No.
When I say make them pay I mean make them pay.

China holds about $1.3 trillion (with a T) of US sovereign debt.

I say void all that paper: Void all US debt held by China.  

Tell them they can use it for toilet paper, because that's all it's worth now. 

 

If they don't like it, well, they've already de facto started an economic war. If China wants to go next level, let them start that also. We'll finish that too. (Let the first Trident D-5 "party favor" land on Wuhan.) 

So a default on our national debt- that would be a complete economic disaster that would make the last 8 weeks seem like a walk in the park.   What is it with conservatism/ libertarianism and the inability to think anything through? 

Here's what gets us out of this..... Trump loses badly in November and much like Bush before him hands the keys to a house on fire to Biden and a Democratic majority Senate.  Democrats then take on the hard work of cleaning up the mess the Republican Party and Trump left for them, while the same Republicans take whatever actions possible to make economic recovery/ containment of the virus as difficult as possible.   Despite this, the virus is eventually contained and the economy turns around.   After which, the debt and deficit will be addressed and some folks taxes will have to go up, which will be a small sacrifice in comparison to the workers you're asking to die of coronavirus for the sake of our economy and "patriotism".

At some point, the economy will start doing so well that people will forget what a mess Republican governance looks like and elect another Republican president and Senate and we'll start the whole process over again.   Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

[UND1983]

10 minutes ago, dlsiouxfan said:

So a default on our national debt- that would be a complete economic disaster that would make the last 8 weeks seem like a walk in the park.   What is it with conservatism/ libertarianism and the inability to think anything through? 

Here's what gets us out of this..... Trump loses badly in November and much like Bush before him hands the keys to a house on fire to Biden and a Democratic majority Senate.  Democrats then take on the hard work of cleaning up the mess the Republican Party and Trump left for them, while the same Republicans take whatever actions possible to make economic recovery/ containment of the virus as difficult as possible.   Despite this, the virus is eventually contained and the economy turns around.   After which, the debt and deficit will be addressed and some folks taxes will have to go up, which will be a small sacrifice in comparison to the workers you're asking to die of coronavirus for the sake of our economy and "patriotism".

At some point, the economy will start doing so well that people will forget what a mess Republican governance looks like and elect another Republican president and Senate and we'll start the whole process over again.   Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Ummmm, this is happening regardless of who is President.  Trump, Biden, Me, You, whoever.  The tax part would be a partisan decision, no doubt.

[UND92,96]

Just 27 new positives announced today for ND out of 2,145 tests done. One additional death.

[GeauxSioux]

20 minutes ago, dlsiouxfan said:

So a default on our national debt- that would be a complete economic disaster that would make the last 8 weeks seem like a walk in the park.   What is it with conservatism/ libertarianism and the inability to think anything through? 

Here's what gets us out of this..... Trump loses badly in November and much like Bush before him hands the keys to a house on fire to Biden and a Democratic majority Senate.  Democrats then take on the hard work of cleaning up the mess the Republican Party and Trump left for them, while the same Republicans take whatever actions possible to make economic recovery/ containment of the virus as difficult as possible.   Despite this, the virus is eventually contained and the economy turns around.   After which, the debt and deficit will be addressed and some folks taxes will have to go up, which will be a small sacrifice in comparison to the workers you're asking to die of coronavirus for the sake of our economy and "patriotism".

At some point, the economy will start doing so well that people will forget what a mess Republican governance looks like and elect another Republican president and Senate and we'll start the whole process over again.   Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Had to do it.... 

 

 

[dlsiouxfan]

12 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Ummmm, this is happening regardless of who is President.  Trump, Biden, Me, You, whoever.  The tax part would be a partisan decision, no doubt.

I disagree.   Trump has proven himself incapable of improving our situation.   The last 8 weeks are all the evidence you need.   We've been shut down for 8 weeks and do we have adequate PPE to protect medical personnel against a surge in infections while also allowing other medical services and essential industries to return? No.   Do we have sufficient testing nationwide to be able to implement contact tracing? No.   Do we have even a plan in place for contact tracing? No.  

We have a bunch of boondoggle stimulus plans that were poorly implemented and continue to be misrun and the presidents grifter son-in law in charge of the medical supply chain.

We're not operating in a vacuum.   Germany, South Korea, New Zealand, Canada are all managing this better than us.   That's entirely due to them having responsible competent governance, while we have the miserable failure that is the Trump admin.

[Siouxphan27]

4 minutes ago, dlsiouxfan said:

I disagree.   Trump has proven himself incapable of improving our situation.   The last 8 weeks are all the evidence you need.   We've been shut down for 8 weeks and do we have adequate PPE to protect medical personnel against a surge in infections while also allowing other medical services and essential industries to return? No.   Do we have sufficient testing nationwide to be able to implement contact tracing? No.   Do we have even a plan in place for contract tracing? No.  

We have a bunch of boondoggle stimulus plans that were poorly implemented and continue to be misrun and the presidents grifter son-in law in charge of the medical supply chain.

We're not operating in a vacuum.   Germany, South Korea, New Zealand, Canada are all managing this better than us.   That's entirely due to them having responsible competent governance, while we have the miserable failure that is the Trump admin.

Remember folks, Orangemanbad, Chinagood.  

[yzerman19]

43 minutes ago, dlsiouxfan said:

So a default on our national debt- that would be a complete economic disaster that would make the last 8 weeks seem like a walk in the park.   What is it with conservatism/ libertarianism and the inability to think anything through? 

Here's what gets us out of this..... Trump loses badly in November and much like Bush before him hands the keys to a house on fire to Biden and a Democratic majority Senate.  Democrats then take on the hard work of cleaning up the mess the Republican Party and Trump left for them, while the same Republicans take whatever actions possible to make economic recovery/ containment of the virus as difficult as possible.   Despite this, the virus is eventually contained and the economy turns around.   After which, the debt and deficit will be addressed and some folks taxes will have to go up, which will be a small sacrifice in comparison to the workers you're asking to die of coronavirus for the sake of our economy and "patriotism".

At some point, the economy will start doing so well that people will forget what a mess Republican governance looks like and elect another Republican president and Senate and we'll start the whole process over again.   Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Completely agree on the default statement. That would be disastrous.  
 

Disagree on one party being the hero and the other a failure.  neither is either.  That’s a pretty warped viewpoint.  The concept of the chief executive or congress as the Driver of economic prosperity is like attributing a great meal to the olive oil. 
 

[yzerman19]

29 minutes ago, dlsiouxfan said:

I disagree.   Trump has proven himself incapable of improving our situation.   The last 8 weeks are all the evidence you need.   We've been shut down for 8 weeks and do we have adequate PPE to protect medical personnel against a surge in infections while also allowing other medical services and essential industries to return? No.   Do we have sufficient testing nationwide to be able to implement contact tracing? No.   Do we have even a plan in place for contact tracing? No.  

We have a bunch of boondoggle stimulus plans that were poorly implemented and continue to be misrun and the presidents grifter son-in law in charge of the medical supply chain.

We're not operating in a vacuum.   Germany, South Korea, New Zealand, Canada are all managing this better than us.   That's entirely due to them having responsible competent governance, while we have the miserable failure that is the Trump admin.

Not all States are created equal.  CA is beating Germany and Canada in deaths per million.  
 

contact tracing...is the goal elimination of the virus?  I’ve never heard that as a goal, because it’s an impossibility.  
 

 

 

[Oxbow6]

47 minutes ago, UND92,96 said:

Just 27 new positives announced today for ND out of 2,145 tests done. One additional death.

Definitely going to be some disappointed people in this thread with those numbers.........

[tnt]

https://wccoradio.radio.com/articles/ap-news/osterholm-says-cloth-masks-wont-fully-protect-from-virus

Wonder how long this guy will be allowed to speak out.