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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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16 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Here’s a thought exercise. Let’s say the media never picked up on a “new” virus and it didn’t have a name. And nobody ever invoked the p-word. Instead, they just reported generically on trends, data, and observations about respiratory viruses, illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths in the aggregate.

Would 2020 just have gone down as a “really bad flu season”? I mean, who has even even paid attention every other year in modern history when such things have been  announced? Who here hasn’t just shrugged at stories of ‘norovirus on a cruise ship’ or ‘Asian flu’? We’re pretty desensitized and resilient, after all.

Yet, there are now armies of armchair epidemiologists out there who couldn’t begin to tell you how many died last year, or the year before, or in any year from any cause, but who seem to know for a fact that “this one is bad.”  Nearly none of them have witnessed it first hand, mind you. Rather it’s what they’ve heard. Over and over.

No panic. No economic upheaval. Some deaths, sure, but mostly in assisted living facilities and tightly packed urban areas. Gentle reminders to wash hands, stay home if you’re sick, see your doctor. Pharma could have quietly worked up a vaccine, and rolled it out in due course with the usual seasonal admonition to ‘get your flu shot.’ Nobody ever reads those labels anyway. “Oh, a bigger needle this year? Okay.” Or, “Two shots this time? Oh, well, what’s my co-pay?”

Maybe we can learn something about the perils of too much information in the Information Age. Maybe being human and vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Maybe putting too much information in the hands of those least equipped to deal with it is the real culprit.

An interesting case study may be the 1957 Asian Flu Pandemic. U.S. mortality rate of about 650 people/million population, which is greater than what we’ve seen for a Covid-19 to this point. I have no idea what kind of quarantine/isolation procedures were in place back then though. An interesting sidenote is that a vaccine was available in limited quantities about 10 months after the virus was identified. 

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I saw a pretty telling graph this morning on CNBC.  The question was, "What is more important, my families health, or wealth?

February 1, 2020   94% Health  - 6% wealth

April 3, 2020          82% Health - 18% wealth

May 3, 2020          66% Health - 34% wealth

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ND....57 positives on 2221 tests today.

6 deaths....5 of those in their 90s.

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9 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

ND....57 positives on 2221 tests today.

6 deaths....5 of those in their 90s.

I heard a rumor that the 6th died from a murder hornet sting...better shut ‘er down until 2035 so we can all be safe!  

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1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

Moe's in Fargo last night for a pick up order had none of the employees wearing masks. I did find that interesting.

Moe's on 32nd who always used to fail their health inspections? Doesn't surprise me!

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20 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

I heard a rumor that the 6th died from a murder hornet sting...better shut ‘er down until 2035 so we can all be safe!  

Now if we could only figure out how to keep those hornets from entering the skilled nursing facilities:whistling:

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Family friend got it from their caregiver in Grand Forks, family has been called and he is dying. Guess it's okay since he was over 80, at least his caregiver didn't have their personal freedom reduced for a few weeks as they felt healthy when they went to work.  Oh the caregiver's spouse worked at LM. 

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8 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

Family friend got it from their caregiver in Grand Forks, family has been called and he is dying. Guess it's okay since he was over 80, at least his caregiver didn't have their personal freedom reduced for a few weeks as they felt healthy when they went to work. 

Better be careful, many here could accuse you of covid shaming the asymptomatic caregiver.

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19 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

Family friend got it from their caregiver in Grand Forks, family has been called and he is dying. Guess it's okay since he was over 80, at least his caregiver didn't have their personal freedom reduced for a few weeks as they felt healthy when they went to work. 

So connecting the dots it's the caregivers fault?  What are the options for the elderly and vulnerable that can't care for themselves in any fashion if this is the mentality by those like you moving forward?  Who's going to tend to and/or take care of these folks?

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21 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

Family friend got it from their caregiver in Grand Forks, family has been called and he is dying. Guess it's okay since he was over 80, at least his caregiver didn't have their personal freedom reduced for a few weeks as they felt healthy when they went to work.  Oh the caregiver's spouse worked at LM. 

So a few more weeks would have been the difference?  I am sorry to hear about your loss.  

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Terrible situation but the whole thing is what pokes a giant hole in those who think the sole answer is as simple as "isolate the vulnerable" and everyone else can go back to living life like normal. It is significantly more complicated than that. 

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Just now, jdub27 said:

Terrible situation but the whole thing is what pokes a giant hole in those who think the sole answer is as simple as "isolate the vulnerable" and everyone else can go back to living life like normal. It is significantly more complicated than that

Yup....the new unemployment numbers tomorrow will so that.

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3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Terrible situation but the whole thing is what pokes a giant hole in those who think the sole answer is as simple as "isolate the vulnerable" and everyone else can go back to living life like normal. It is significantly more complicated than that. 

We've been poking holes in every argument the entire time.  The only difference is one side is getting their way and the collateral damage on the other side is being ignored.  

BTW, if the caregivers spouse worked at LM then it had nothing to do with bars opening last week.

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12 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

We've been poking holes in every argument the entire time.  The only difference is one side is getting their way and the collateral damage on the other side is being ignored.  

BTW, if the caregivers spouse worked at LM then it had nothing to do with bars opening last week.

I'd disagree with that. It isn't recommendations from epidemiologists that is causing them to open things up right now, it the continuous mounting of collateral damage.

I guess that would be the logical conclusion that would show how they ended up an asymptomatic carrier, but it doesn't change the end result or the point: Unless you are going to isolate all caregivers, then isolating the vulnerable doesn't really work for the exact same reason. If it was a true lockdown, than anyone who was exposed to someone who worked at LM would have also been quarantined. Instead, they only required the workers to be quarantined (which was questionably followed by more than a few) and those that lived with them had no restrictions and were able to continue to be exposed to others.

I'm not saying what is right or wrong in the scenario, just making the point that claiming the simple solution to just "isolate the vulnerable" is not answer nor is "keep everyone locked down for months at a time". It has to be somewhere in the middle and with the understanding that lives will be lost no matter which direction things go.

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17 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

So a few more weeks would have been the difference?  I am sorry to hear about your loss.  

The kicker is if they would have stayed at home the two weeks they would have known they were infected. I do agree that there will be situations where people don't know they were infected and are essential workers and have to go to work. This person should have probably realized they were exposed. 

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11 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

We've been poking holes in every argument the entire time.  The only difference is one side is getting their way and the collateral damage on the other side is being ignored.  

BTW, if the caregivers spouse worked at LM then it had nothing to do with bars opening last week.

Yeah it had more to do with LM encouraging people to work while sick during the pandemic and not providing protections to their employees. Also a crappy follow up by the city and OSHA on employee complaints. Now unfortunately others in the community are paying for it with their lives.

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Something I hadn't considered before, but will this virus lead to a decline in the use of nursing homes and a return to family members taking care of their elders?  

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1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

Something I hadn't considered before, but will this virus lead to a decline in the use of nursing homes and a return to family members taking care of their elders?  

The nursing homes are going to take a hit. Unfortunately their resident counts will continue to decline. And who wants to send their loved away, to potentially never see them in person again?

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7 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

The nursing homes are going to take a hit. Unfortunately their resident counts will continue to decline. And who wants to send their loved away, to potentially never see them in person again?

Agreed.  And I'm surprised anyone who would consider blaming the $12/hour CNA for their elder getting sick didn't pull that elder out of the nursing home 2 months ago.

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1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

Agreed.  And I'm surprised anyone who would considered blaming the $12/hour CNA for their elder getting sick didn't pull that elder out of the nursing home 2 months ago.

Who blamed him/her? I don't even think cm said the friend was in a nursing home.

 

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1 minute ago, Redneksioux said:

Who blamed him/her? I don't even think cm said the friend was in a nursing home.

 

CM blamed the caregiver, who I'm sure feels bad enough already.  Good point on the nursing home, possible bad assumption on my part.

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1 hour ago, CMSioux said:

Family friend got it from their caregiver in Grand Forks, family has been called and he is dying. Guess it's okay since he was over 80, at least his caregiver didn't have their personal freedom reduced for a few weeks as they felt healthy when they went to work.  Oh the caregiver's spouse worked at LM. 

If you would have told me from the beginning that my personal freedom would have only been reduced for a few a weeks, I would have been on board. The issue right now is there isn't a plan for those personal freedoms to come back, and the moment somebody brings up that we should start working on that, they get accused of not caring if people die.

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2 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

CM blamed the caregiver, who I'm sure feels bad enough already.  Good point on the nursing home, possible bad assumption on my part.

I took his comment to not so much blame the caregiver....more of our society's opinion of the caregiver's civil rights being infringed upon.

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1 hour ago, Redneksioux said:

Moe's on 32nd who always used to fail their health inspections? Doesn't surprise me!

This has merit. @Oxbow6, love your comments, but can’t believe you ate that sh;t from there/that location. Yikes! 

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5 minutes ago, SiouxForever said:

This has merit. @Oxbow6, love your comments, but can’t believe you ate that sh;t from there/that location. Yikes! 

Agree....total lack in judgement. Dare I say I would have been better off going to Taco Bell!

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