2019 Attendance

[Cratter]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Not sure how moving the student section would decrease student attendance.  In fact, I think it won’t affect student attendance at all. 

 I can almost guarantee you that whether the students sit at the 50 yard line or the 25 yard line, it isn’t a top 3 factor of whether they show up or stay the second half. 

But the general public will show up if given better seats?

[Mama Sue]

49 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

 I do not think anybody is proposing that athletics takes precedent over academics. The question is what portion of alumni donations goes to athletics. 

I have posted this before... our son was recruited by many schools... his 3 visits were NDSU, SDSU, and UND ( which was the last visit and we could not see the top of the Holiday Inn for the snow). The night before signing day the letters were coming with better offers... He actually turned down hockey at UND, the fund kid... I would have taken out a second mortgage to see EVERY game... so he is standing at the dining room table with s full ride offer from SDSU and says... well I guess it is SDSU Mom. I asked why... his response was... a full ride, dad says go for the money (that is a husband with 4 kids to put through college). I said... turn those letters over and go to the college that will best prepare you for why you want to do for the rest of your life.... then it is UND Mom.

I will be writing letters..... 

[Irish]

28 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

They aren’t going to put any discussion about staff changes in an email nor on paper nor should they. Discussion about an employee’s performance/job security is protected information. Be the first in line to  make an appointment with the approach that you want to know how to help and then take the opportunity to share your frustration. Figure out how to be part of the solution. I knew Rudolph was out of his league the first year he was here. I expressed my opinion to Bubba. He listened, but didn’t seem to agree.  If enough people express willingness to help solve our issues and take the opportunity to express our frustrations, the are much more likely to pay attention.  When I spoke with Bubba, not that many people had turned on Rudolph yet. 

You are correct - and I didn't expect a full discussion of any coach's contract via email to an alumni he didn't know.  I did, however, feel that my input was not valuable to them - this may be my own interpretation but that formulaic "your input is valuable to us" crap was a real turn-off.  And your Bubba encounter in my mind sums up what I think of the program.  All we get is Bubba speak from the football program and silence from the AD.  This is frustrating.  I'm not suggesting the AD come out and blast Bubba,  but some honesty from Bubba would be refreshing - especially now when the frustration with his program is building.  Other than more money (and for my budget I think I am giving plenty) I don't know how to be part of the solution when no one in power ever admits there is a problem.  

 

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, WiSioux said:

It's a university, not a sports club. Academics absolutely should come first! They are student athletes... Notice how the student part comes first? The point of a university is to prepare students for getting jobs and the promote higher education... Funding for academics should also be the top priority for an alumni association... If you want to donate to athletic give it to the athletic department, not the alumni association.

So it's a zero sum game then? You either have great academics/research or great athletics? Sorry, but that's a false choice. You don't have to give up one for the other. But it seems like that is the philosophy at the University of North Dakota. And I do not agree with it.

This isn't high school, where it doesn't matter how bad your athletic teams are. Maybe you think it should be that way, but it's not. Athletics are a great marketing tool for any university (just ask Gonzaga)....IF you are successful. If you are NOT successful, then athletics can be a millstone around your neck. Which is becoming the case here.

And the last time I checked, the Champions Club was run by the UND Alumni Association. So maybe that should be disbanded then? So we can emulate Rutgers? No thank you.

 

[fightingsioux4life]

59 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

That blueprint worked for them. UND FB fan hits the nail on the head. It takes a University President who recognizes the value of intercollegiate athletics to the University experience for students (getting more difficult each year to maintain their interest) and the importance of the exposure what the University does for area and regional businesses and organizations. It’s a great marketing tool to attract prospective students, attract collaborative interactions with businesses, companies and organizations both regionally and nationally and studies show success athletically leads to increases in donations. UND does not have the advantage of the size of Fargo Moorhead. So much of their “blueprint “ is dependent on support from many non NDSU alumni. Sanford Health has been a difference maker for NDSU as well as SDSU, USD, Augustana, Bemidji State etc. UND turned down the first $10 million offer and subsequently the millions that followed elsewhere.  We need to review their blueprint but it will require leadership and our own blueprint that works for us. 

There are a substantial number of UND alumni living in Imperial Cass County, ND. I really hope they are NOT supporting NDSU at the expense of UND. If that is the case, then we aren't doing a good job of cultivating relationships with people.

The "leadership" at UND has been non-existent to incompetent over the past 10 years. The next Presidential hire will be crucial to changing this dynamic.

[Oxbow6]

1 hour ago, Cratter said:

But the general public will show up if given better seats?

Short answer......no.

[iramurphy]

41 minutes ago, Irish said:

You are correct - and I didn't expect a full discussion of any coach's contract via email to an alumni he didn't know.  I did, however, feel that my input was not valuable to them - this may be my own interpretation but that formulaic "your input is valuable to us" crap was a real turn-off.  And your Bubba encounter in my mind sums up what I think of the program.  All we get is Bubba speak from the football program and silence from the AD.  This is frustrating.  I'm not suggesting the AD come out and blast Bubba,  but some honesty from Bubba would be refreshing - especially now when the frustration with his program is building.  Other than more money (and for my budget I think I am giving plenty) I don't know how to be part of the solution when no one in power ever admits there is a problem.  

 

I think your frustration is shared. Very few of us are able to give much more now, if any. Those of you who have kids or those of us who have grandkids and limited resources aren’t going to give UND an extra $500, $5000 etc when we might help a kid or grandkid or maybe have a building project at our church or businesses expansion etc.  Make an appointment with whomever you want to communicate to and they will know who you are. Get a group of like minded fans and pledge to pool resources.  10 or 20 fans who don’t feel listened to can throw together $100-$500 per person and ask to meet with decision makers twice per year. Once to present a check and once to hear from the AD on how those resources are being used.  $1000-5000 per year is usually welcomed. Having said that, you don’t need to give money to speak with University officials. You sound like a smart enough person to have ideas to share and a passion and interest in UND athletics that is important. Over 20 years ago I convinced Rob Bollinger to start a UND golf outing in our town. I believe it has raised around $200,000 since inception.  UND officials no longer remember that but most important is the support for UND and bringing UND alumni and fans together.  I certainly couldn’t have donated that kind of money but many golfers who have been attending this and similar events can now afford to give $1000 or more per year.  We can talk to local students about attending UND or donate to our local high school scholarship programs for graduating seniors. My wife and I offer a scholarship to a graduating senior who attends UND majoring in Engineering.  We can’t be involved in recruiting athletes but getting athletes classmates to UND occasionally helps a recruit make up their mind. The little things are important but one thing is for sure, if you don’t persist in your efforts then we all lose. 

[Irish]

5 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I think your frustration is shared. Very few of us are able to give much more now, if any. Those of you who have kids or those of us who have grandkids and limited resources aren’t going to give UND an extra $500, $5000 etc when we might help a kid or grandkid or maybe have a building project at our church or businesses expansion etc.  Make an appointment with whomever you want to communicate to and they will know who you are. Get a group of like minded fans and pledge to pool resources.  10 or 20 fans who don’t feel listened to can throw together $100-$500 per person and ask to meet with decision makers twice per year. Once to present a check and once to hear from the AD on how those resources are being used.  $1000-5000 per year is usually welcomed. Having said that, you don’t need to give money to speak with University officials. You sound like a smart enough person to have ideas to share and a passion and interest in UND athletics that is important. Over 20 years ago I convinced Rob Bollinger to start a UND golf outing in our town. I believe it has raised around $200,000 since inception.  UND officials no longer remember that but most important is the support for UND and bringing UND alumni and fans together.  I certainly couldn’t have donated that kind of money but many golfers who have been attending this and similar events can now afford to give $1000 or more per year.  We can talk to local students about attending UND or donate to our local high school scholarship programs for graduating seniors. My wife and I offer a scholarship to a graduating senior who attends UND majoring in Engineering.  We can’t be involved in recruiting athletes but getting athletes classmates to UND occasionally helps a recruit make up their mind. The little things are important but one thing is for sure, if you don’t persist in your efforts then we all lose. 

Thanks for the response and ideas.

[dakotadan]

Give the students a reason to show up and stay for the entire game. Put a good product on the field.

Punishing them isn't going to help with their attendance.

[Oxbow6]

19 minutes ago, dakotadan said:

Give the students a reason to show up and stay for the entire game. Put a good product on the field.

Punishing them isn't going to help with their attendance.

This.....^^^

Lots of other entertainment options for students beside watching bad FB on a Saturday.

[Siouxperfan7]

8 hours ago, dakotadan said:

Give the students a reason to show up and stay for the entire game. Put a good product on the field.

Punishing them isn't going to help with their attendance.

As stated numerous times on this site, it is not just a UND problem.  Student attendance is down nationwide.  Even at schools that are putting a great product at the field.  Student sections at Alabama and Clemson are even struggling to fill seats.  It's more than just putting a good product on the field.  It's just that college kids these days don't care as much about attending college athletics than in the past.  So no, it's not that simple.

[90siouxfan]

I have often wondered about the similarities between Champions Club and Teammakers.  From my distant view it just appears that those scoundrels from the south went "all in" for their football program.  Exhibit one being the loophole title 9 thing that I don't even faintly grasp or want to.  Does the two comparable funding groups spread their funds differently?

[nd1sufan]

17 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

There are a substantial number of UND alumni living in Imperial Cass County, ND. I really hope they are NOT supporting NDSU at the expense of UND. If that is the case, then we aren't doing a good job of cultivating relationships with people.

The "leadership" at UND has been non-existent to incompetent over the past 10 years. The next Presidential hire will be crucial to changing this dynamic.

There are a number of UND alums that are members of TeamMakers to be able to get NDSU FB season tickets. Even the head FB coach at Shanley, who is a UND alum and student athlete at UND is a season ticket holder and TeamMaker. However, there a lot of NDSU alums that are season ticket holders for UND hockey.

[UNDColorado]

5 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

There are a number of UND alums that are members of TeamMakers to be able to get NDSU FB season tickets. Even the head FB coach at Shanley, who is a UND alum and student athlete at UND is a season ticket holder and TeamMaker. However, there a lot of NDSU alums that are season ticket holders for UND hockey.

That's just F@#&$% up.

[Hammersmith]

26 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

I have often wondered about the similarities between Champions Club and Teammakers.  From my distant view it just appears that those scoundrels from the south went "all in" for their football program.  Exhibit one being the loophole title 9 thing that I don't even faintly grasp or want to.  Does the two comparable funding groups spread their funds differently?

I don't know how Champions Club does it, but 100% of the Team Maker funds have historically gone to scholarships*. That's what it was founded to do, and I believe it's in the charter. It might be getting slightly more complicated lately since Team Makers is now generating more funds than are needed for scholarships. I don't know if the extra is going into endowments or used for other things. TM only crossed the 100% funding threshold a few years ago, so they may be still figuring it out.

It's a little harder to see what CC is doing because it's just a division of the Foundation/Alumni Assoc. TM is it's own entity on paper, so it's a little more transparent. I'm sure there are advantages both ways, so don't take this as an attack or anything. People sometimes think TM is responsible for raising funds for stuff like the SHAC or the new IPF, but they're not. While the groups that fund-raise for those projects likely have access to the TM mailing lists, they actually are part of the athletic department or the Foundation/Alumni Assoc and not TM.

 

*And I mean scholarships across all programs, not just FB. The reason why NDSU is fully funded(including FCOA) in ALL sports is because of the huge jumps in TM revenue over the last decade. But the vast majority of that revenue is because of season ticket seat fees for FB.

[UND1983]

30 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

There are a number of UND alums that are members of TeamMakers to be able to get NDSU FB season tickets. Even the head FB coach at Shanley, who is a UND alum and student athlete at UND is a season ticket holder and TeamMaker. However, there a lot of NDSU alums that are season ticket holders for UND hockey.

lol - says alot about a person doesnt it?

[UND1983]

24 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

I don't know how Champions Club does it, but 100% of the Team Maker funds have historically gone to scholarships*. That's what it was founded to do, and I believe it's in the charter. It might be getting slightly more complicated lately since Team Makers is now generating more funds than are needed for scholarships. I don't know if the extra is going into endowments or used for other things. TM only crossed the 100% funding threshold a few years ago, so they may be still figuring it out.

It's a little harder to see what CC is doing because it's just a division of the Foundation/Alumni Assoc. TM is it's own entity on paper, so it's a little more transparent. I'm sure there are advantages both ways, so don't take this as an attack or anything. People sometimes think TM is responsible for raising funds for stuff like the SHAC or the new IPF, but they're not. While the groups that fund-raise for those projects likely have access to the TM mailing lists, they actually are part of the athletic department or the Foundation/Alumni Assoc and not TM.

 

*And I mean scholarships across all programs, not just FB. The reason why NDSU is fully funded(including FCOA) in ALL sports is because of the huge jumps in TM revenue over the last decade. But the vast majority of that revenue is because of season ticket seat fees for FB.

Doesn't TM back athletics projects on campus though to get them going?  That is a HUGE difference, if so.  

[Hammersmith]

13 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Doesn't TM back athletics projects on campus though to get them going?  That is a HUGE difference, if so.  

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean guaranteeing the money to allow construction to begin like what happened with the FB office and locker room remodel in the FD or the last few million for the SHAC? If so, that was the Foundation/Alumni Assoc and not TM. IIRC, the only times I remember TM backing a capital project directly were smaller projects with a quick deadline. The bubble over Dacotah Field(something like 8 months from fundraising start to installation) and one or more of the turf replacements on Dacotah Field and/or the FB practice fields. Both of those turf projects were done in a hurry(the practice field project needed to be fast because the turf was the damaged stuff from the FD, and it was either buy it fast or it was going to be hauled away).

[UND1983]

3 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean guaranteeing the money to allow construction to begin like what happened with the FB office and locker room remodel in the FD or the last few million for the SHAC? If so, that was the Foundation/Alumni Assoc and not TM. IIRC, the only times I remember TM backing a capital project directly were smaller projects with a quick deadline. The bubble over Dacotah Field(something like 8 months from fundraising start to installation) and one or more of the turf replacements on Dacotah Field and/or the FB practice fields. Both of those turf projects were done in a hurry(the practice field project needed to be fast because the turf was the damaged stuff from the FD, and it was either buy it fast or it was going to be hauled away).

yes pretty much what I meant.  IIRC, UND Foundation or CC don't back anything up front to get it going.  Seems like all money needs to be pledged/signed/accounted for and signed off on by the board before they do anything.  That is a BIG difference and one that is working against UND on things like getting HPC2 going, at least.

[Hammersmith]

4 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

yes pretty much what I meant.  IIRC, UND Foundation or CC don't back anything up front to get it going.  Seems like all money needs to be pledged/signed/accounted for and signed off on by the board before they do anything.  That is a BIG difference and one that is working against UND on things like getting HPC2 going, at least.

OK, that's fair.

I just want to be clear about the scope of things so people who don't follow this stuff as carefully as we do don't get the wrong idea. TM only gets involved in smaller capital projects that are on a tight timeline. I think all of these have been in the low six figures. And I think the athletic dept "pays it back" from future guarantee money; although it's really just moving numbers around on a page. In the case of bigger projects like the SHAC, the Foundation only guarantees a small portion of the overall project cost, mostly just to allow the project to not miss a construction window. I think in the case of the SHAC, it was something like $3M-$5M guaranteed on a $45M project. And most or all of that $3M-$5M was raised while construction was ongoing; I don't know how much, if any, money actually had to be loaned to the athletic department.

In your case, I don't know if the earlier HPC2 project ever got even close to the 90% funded stage to allow your Foundation to do something similar. Still, I could see where it could be a problem if they won't even work with you on the smaller stuff. Having a group like TM do stuff like this is really helpful to take advantage of time-sensitive situations when the athletic capital budgets are otherwise set on a biennial basis.

[JohnboyND7]

2 hours ago, UND1983 said:

lol - says alot about a person doesnt it?

Because a guy has season tickets to a team you dont like, that says a lot about him?

[UND1983]

4 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Because a guy has season tickets to a team you dont like, that says a lot about him?

That he went to UND, his wife went to UND, played a sport at UND...then does that.  Not very typical of u ask me but to each his own.

[Oxbow6]

36 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Because a guy has season tickets to a team you dont like, that says a lot about him?

Mattern is a top shelf quality/character guy. He and his family were at the SHSU game.....in UND gear. He'd be better HC at UND then what we have now.

I have a few UND grad buddies that live in Fargo that have season tickets to NDSU FB. I don't question their character because of it. 

[UND1983]

4 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Mattern is a top shelf quality/character guy. He and his family were at the SHSU game.....in UND gear. He'd be better HC at UND then what we have now.

I have a few UND grad buddies that live in Fargo that have season tickets to NDSU FB. I don't question there character because of it. 

To each their own, like I stated.  

[Oxbow6]

7 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

To each their own, like I stated.  

 

3 hours ago, UND1983 said:

lol - says alot about a person doesnt it?

 

35 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

That he went to UND, his wife went to UND, played a sport at UND...then does that.  Not very typical of u ask me but to each his own.

 

7 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

To each their own, like I stated.  

What does it say about him......and other UND grads that have done the same thing? Just curious. Is it typical.....no but should not an issue for taking a shot at someone's character.