2019 Attendance

[hky]

This topic is moot until the play on the field improves.  Yesterday's game was a buzzkill for sure.  We are longtime season ticket holders, but I can tell you there is concern in GF that UND football is not turning it around any time soon.

[Cratter]

Decrease student attendance so it might look better on tv is what I hear.

[iramurphy]

3 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

You are mistaken. Sure, the 40-40 yard line Champions Club sections occasionally have a few empty seats, but it is by far the most filled up section in the entire building. 

The student attendance is simply too poor, particularly in the second half, to even consider that Champions Club seating would be inferior in terms of attendance. At the worst, it would be a parallel move, but moving the students would most likely drastically improve the distribution of attendance to the midfield seats - and rightfully so. 

UND football is in no way, shape, or form in a position where maintaining the status quo should be viewed as insightful. Moving the students is only one of many changes that the football program needs to undergo. 

If you think I am mistaken about empty seats at midfield on the home team side, then you are not paying attention. I sit on the 50 yard line row  Z.  There are over 100 empty seats above and around me virtually every game. The seats below concourse level are almost always full. My comment never said  attendance in this area is inferior to student attendance. My point is that when there is pressure for more season tickets, move the students.  In the meantime leave them where they are, right behind the opposing team. I would prefer students filling the seats they fill for however long they are at the game, rather than move them to the far end and leave the middle nearly empty. There is nothing about my comments that should lead you to believe that I think the “status quo” is acceptable.  

The fact that I and others don’t call for change every time a receiver drops a pass, the QB throws an interception or we miss a tackle or extra point only means that I don’t need to vent on this website. I find it more productive to sit down with the President, Athletic Director, Head Coach, and/or other boosters or Alumni to figure out how I might be able to help affect change. It isn’t arguing with you on this site about accepting mediocrity, the status quo, etc. I hope you can understand almost all fans want our teams to be successful. That means conference and national championships. That includes people who support our coaching staff and those who want to start over. It’s a very difficult and complicated process that we as fans, Alumni, boosters, administrators, coaches and players haven’t been successful at yet.  

[Mama Sue]

Well said Ira.... perfect... sit down and talk.... whatever it takes... no anger or blaming but how can we improve this? 

Go for it!

[Shawn-O]

5 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

If you think I am mistaken about empty seats at midfield on the home team side, then you are not paying attention. I sit on the 50 yard line row  Z.  There are over 100 empty seats above and around me virtually every game. The seats below concourse level are almost always full. My comment never said  attendance in this area is inferior to student attendance. My point is that when there is pressure for more season tickets, move the students.  In the meantime leave them where they are, right behind the opposing team. I would prefer students filling the seats they fill for however long they are at the game, rather than move them to the far end and leave the middle nearly empty. There is nothing about my comments that should lead you to believe that I think the “status quo” is acceptable.  

The fact that I and others don’t call for change every time a receiver drops a pass, the QB throws an interception or we miss a tackle or extra point only means that I don’t need to vent on this website. I find it more productive to sit down with the President, Athletic Director, Head Coach, and/or other boosters or Alumni to figure out how I might be able to help affect change. It isn’t arguing with you on this site about accepting mediocrity, the status quo, etc. I hope you can understand almost all fans want our teams to be successful. That means conference and national championships. That includes people who support our coaching staff and those who want to start over. It’s a very difficult and complicated process that we as fans, Alumni, boosters, administrators, coaches and players haven’t been successful at yet.  

Can I get that kind of an audience with a Captain's Club check?  Asking for a friend.   

[iramurphy]

1 minute ago, Shawn-O said:

Can I get that kind of an audience with a Captain's Club check?  Asking for a friend.   

You can get that kind of audience without a check. Call and make an appointment. (If you start writing checks they may call and make an appointment with you).  They need input and a commitment to help as much as they need checks. 

[Shawn-O]

2 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

You can get that kind of audience without a check. Call and make an appointment. (If you start writing checks they may call and make an appointment with you).  They need input and a commitment to help as much as they need checks. 

Thank you Ira, for that and for your support of UND.   

[UND-FB-FAN]

56 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Decrease student attendance so it might look better on tv is what I hear.

Not sure how moving the student section would decrease student attendance.  In fact, I think it won’t affect student attendance at all. 

 I can almost guarantee you that whether the students sit at the 50 yard line or the 25 yard line, it isn’t a top 3 factor of whether they show up or stay the second half. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

37 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

If you think I am mistaken about empty seats at midfield on the home team side, then you are not paying attention. I sit on the 50 yard line row  Z.  There are over 100 empty seats above and around me virtually every game. The seats below concourse level are almost always full. My comment never said  attendance in this area is inferior to student attendance. My point is that when there is pressure for more season tickets, move the students.  In the meantime leave them where they are, right behind the opposing team. I would prefer students filling the seats they fill for however long they are at the game, rather than move them to the far end and leave the middle nearly empty. There is nothing about my comments that should lead you to believe that I think the “status quo” is acceptable.  

The fact that I and others don’t call for change every time a receiver drops a pass, the QB throws an interception or we miss a tackle or extra point only means that I don’t need to vent on this website. I find it more productive to sit down with the President, Athletic Director, Head Coach, and/or other boosters or Alumni to figure out how I might be able to help affect change. It isn’t arguing with you on this site about accepting mediocrity, the status quo, etc. I hope you can understand almost all fans want our teams to be successful. That means conference and national championships. That includes people who support our coaching staff and those who want to start over. It’s a very difficult and complicated process that we as fans, Alumni, boosters, administrators, coaches and players haven’t been successful at yet.  

There are empty seats all over the Alerus Center. The highest attendance density is from the 40 to 40 yard line; therefore, the least number of empty seats exists in those sections. Not a difficult concept and everyone understands it; the difficulty is getting leadership to consider change and then ultimately moving forward with it.

[fightingsioux4life]

14 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

If you think I am mistaken about empty seats at midfield on the home team side, then you are not paying attention. I sit on the 50 yard line row  Z.  There are over 100 empty seats above and around me virtually every game. The seats below concourse level are almost always full. My comment never said  attendance in this area is inferior to student attendance. My point is that when there is pressure for more season tickets, move the students.  In the meantime leave them where they are, right behind the opposing team. I would prefer students filling the seats they fill for however long they are at the game, rather than move them to the far end and leave the middle nearly empty. There is nothing about my comments that should lead you to believe that I think the “status quo” is acceptable.  

The fact that I and others don’t call for change every time a receiver drops a pass, the QB throws an interception or we miss a tackle or extra point only means that I don’t need to vent on this website. I find it more productive to sit down with the President, Athletic Director, Head Coach, and/or other boosters or Alumni to figure out how I might be able to help affect change. It isn’t arguing with you on this site about accepting mediocrity, the status quo, etc. I hope you can understand almost all fans want our teams to be successful. That means conference and national championships. That includes people who support our coaching staff and those who want to start over. It’s a very difficult and complicated process that we as fans, Alumni, boosters, administrators, coaches and players haven’t been successful at yet.  

And if I was to sit down and talk with these people, what kind of response would I get? I think I can guess:

-We don't have the resources to do this/that/whatever.

-It isn't "feasible" to do this/that/whatever.

-The student-athletes are doing good in the classroom and/or community, so it isn't a big deal.

-Bubba is "one of us", so we don't think a change is warranted at this time.

Anyone else who wants to add to this list, please feel free.

No one is questioning that you want us to be successful. Everyone here (except the Bison trolls) wants that. But too many people like @jdub27 will just accept any explanation they get from the higher-ups at UND and conclude that nothing can be done about what is wrong. And the problem since the day we moved up to Division I is that we didn't have a plan on how to raise the money necessary to put winning teams on the court/field. That is why our coaches are underpaid, our facilities (except for HPC Phase I) are still Division II and our teams are mediocre or worse across the board. And we have been Division I for 10 freaking years now! If the only reason we moved up is NDSU moved up, then it was a big and costly mistake.

The Alumni Association has posted record fundraising numbers, yet athletics doesn't seem to get one red cent of it. It seems to me that the Alumni Association has decided to focus almost exclusively on academics and research because athletics is "fine the way it is because of Men's Hockey and REA". Well, I think we are capable of being more than "Rutgers with hockey". I think we need to come up with outside-the-box ideas when it comes to fundraising and revenue streams. The "time honored" tradition of season tickets, Champions Club and 50/50 raffles is not enough at the Division I level. We aren't playing the likes of Augustana, UM-Crookston and Winona St. anymore.

But all of this will require a President that cares enough about athletics to come up with a functional plan and the resolve to carry it out. And that person hasn't been selected yet. So until that happens, we are kind of twisting in the wind right now.

[UND-FB-FAN]

39 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

If you think I am mistaken about empty seats at midfield on the home team side, then you are not paying attention. I sit on the 50 yard line row  Z.  There are over 100 empty seats above and around me virtually every game. The seats below concourse level are almost always full. My comment never said  attendance in this area is inferior to student attendance. My point is that when there is pressure for more season tickets, move the students.  In the meantime leave them where they are, right behind the opposing team. I would prefer students filling the seats they fill for however long they are at the game, rather than move them to the far end and leave the middle nearly empty. There is nothing about my comments that should lead you to believe that I think the “status quo” is acceptable.  

The fact that I and others don’t call for change every time a receiver drops a pass, the QB throws an interception or we miss a tackle or extra point only means that I don’t need to vent on this website. I find it more productive to sit down with the President, Athletic Director, Head Coach, and/or other boosters or Alumni to figure out how I might be able to help affect change. It isn’t arguing with you on this site about accepting mediocrity, the status quo, etc. I hope you can understand almost all fans want our teams to be successful. That means conference and national championships. That includes people who support our coaching staff and those who want to start over. It’s a very difficult and complicated process that we as fans, Alumni, boosters, administrators, coaches and players haven’t been successful at yet.  

I’m happy you don’t spend too much time on this website. It is certainly reasonable, and really the right thing to do, to communicate directly with leadership instead. 

 As for seating in the Alerus Center, my final point is that there are season-ticket holders sitting at the 25 yard lines who would rather be sitting at the 50 yard line. These season-ticket holders remain present for the entirety of the game. The students consistently leave during half time. Nearly every division 1 football venue has their students sit at the 25 yard line or so. I just don’t understand why people figure UND needs to be the exception. It is hurting the seating options for committed season-ticket holders, and, as a minor issue,  hurting the aesthetics of the broadcast. 

[fightingsioux4life]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I’m happy you don’t spent too much time of this website. It is certainly reasonable, and really the right thing to do, to communicate directly with leadership instead. 

 As for seating in the Alerus Center, my final point is that there are season-ticket holders sitting at the 25 yard lines who would rather be sitting at the 50 yard line. These season-ticket holders remain present for the entirety of the game. The students consistently leave during half time. Nearly every division 1 football venue has their students sit at the 25 yard line or so. I just don’t understand why people figure UND needs to be the exception. It is hurting the seating options for committed season-ticket holders, and, as a minor issue,  hurting the aesthetics of the broadcast. 

But would these people be willing to pay substantially more to move to midfield? Because those seats almost certainly will cost more.

[UND-FB-FAN]

9 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

But would these people be willing to pay substantially more to move to midfield? Because those seats almost certainly will cost more.

 They don’t have to cost more. They could cost the same as UND sideline 25 yard line tickets. Right now, visitor sideline 50 yd line seats aren’t even available because they are reserved for students who do not attend the entire game. 

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

 They don’t have to cost more. They could cost the same as UND sideline 25 yard line tickets. Right now, those seats aren’t even available because they are reserved for students who do not attend the entire game. 

No, they don't HAVE to cost more. But how much are you willing to bet they won't cost more? Especially since that is the cost structure on the other side of the Alerus Center.

[Irish]

10 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I’m happy you don’t spent too much time of this website. It is certainly reasonable, and really the right thing to do, to communicate directly with leadership instead. 

 As for seating in the Alerus Center, my final point is that there are season-ticket holders sitting at the 25 yard lines who would rather be sitting at the 50 yard line. These season-ticket holders remain present for the entirety of the game. The students consistently leave during half time. Nearly every division 1 football venue has their students sit at the 25 yard line or so. I just don’t understand why people figure UND needs to be the exception. It is hurting the seating options for committed season-ticket holders, and, as a minor issue,  hurting the aesthetics of the broadcast. 

I am a season ticket holder who would love to move more to the middle.  I'm sure there are many others like me.

[WiSioux]

14 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

And if I was to sit down and talk with these people, what kind of response would I get? I think I can guess:

-We don't have the resources to do this/that/whatever.

-It isn't "feasible" to do this/that/whatever.

-The student-athletes are doing good in the classroom and/or community, so it isn't a big deal.

-Bubba is "one of us", so we don't think a change is warranted at this time.

Anyone else who wants to add to this list, please feel free.

No one is questioning that you want us to be successful. Everyone here (except the Bison trolls) wants that. But too many people like @jdub27 will just accept any explanation they get from the higher-ups at UND and conclude that nothing can be done about what is wrong. And the problem since the day we moved up to Division I is that we didn't have a plan on how to raise the money necessary to put winning teams on the court/field. That is why our coaches are underpaid, our facilities (except for HPC Phase I) are still Division II and our teams are mediocre or worse across the board. And we have been Division I for 10 freaking years now! If the only reason we moved up is NDSU moved up, then it was a big and costly mistake.

The Alumni Association has posted record fundraising numbers, yet athletics doesn't seem to get one red cent of it. It seems to me that the Alumni Association has decided to focus almost exclusively on academics and research because athletics is "fine the way it is because of Men's Hockey and REA". Well, I think we are capable of being more than "Rutgers with hockey". I think we need to come up with outside-the-box ideas when it comes to fundraising and revenue streams. The "time honored" tradition of season tickets, Champions Club and 50/50 raffles is not enough at the Division I level. We aren't playing the likes of Augustana, UM-Crookston and Winona St. anymore.

But all of this will require a President that cares enough about athletics to come up with a functional plan and the resolve to carry it out. And that person hasn't been selected yet. So until that happens, we are kind of twisting in the wind right now.

It's a university, not a sports club. Academics absolutely should come first! They are student athletes... Notice how the student part comes first? The point of a university is to prepare students for getting jobs and the promote higher education... Funding for academics should also be the top priority for an alumni association... If you want to donate to athletic give it to the athletic department, not the alumni association.

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 minute ago, fightingsioux4life said:

No, they don't HAVE to cost more. But how much are you willing to bet they won't cost more?

Leadership has to make the decision. If UND leadership decides to move the student section down and allow champions club seating at midfield on the visitor side line, they will have to appropriately price those seats. UND should probably price those seats similarly to 25 yard line seating on the UND sideline. just my 2 cents.  I haven’t looked into the seating chart and seating prices enough to give an educated assessment on pricing. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 minute ago, Irish said:

I am a season ticket holder who would love to move more to the middle.  I'm sure there are many others like me.

 I know there are several. And that would be one of the major arguments to my proposed change of seating arrangements. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 minute ago, WiSioux said:

It's a university, not a sports club. Academics absolutely should come first! They are student athletes... Notice how the student part comes first? The point of a university is to prepare students for getting jobs and the promote higher education... Funding for academics should also be the top priority for an alumni association... If you want to donate to athletic give it to the athletic department, not the alumni association.

 I do not think anybody is proposing that athletics takes precedent over academics. The question is what portion of alumni donations goes to athletics. 

[MrEdway]

47 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

If you think I am mistaken about empty seats at midfield on the home team side, then you are not paying attention. I sit on the 50 yard line row  Z.  There are over 100 empty seats above and around me virtually every game. The seats below concourse level are almost always full. My comment never said  attendance in this area is inferior to student attendance. My point is that when there is pressure for more season tickets, move the students.  In the meantime leave them where they are, right behind the opposing team. I would prefer students filling the seats they fill for however long they are at the game, rather than move them to the far end and leave the middle nearly empty. There is nothing about my comments that should lead you to believe that I think the “status quo” is acceptable.  

The fact that I and others don’t call for change every time a receiver drops a pass, the QB throws an interception or we miss a tackle or extra point only means that I don’t need to vent on this website. I find it more productive to sit down with the President, Athletic Director, Head Coach, and/or other boosters or Alumni to figure out how I might be able to help affect change. It isn’t arguing with you on this site about accepting mediocrity, the status quo, etc. I hope you can understand almost all fans want our teams to be successful. That means conference and national championships. That includes people who support our coaching staff and those who want to start over. It’s a very difficult and complicated process that we as fans, Alumni, boosters, administrators, coaches and players haven’t been successful at yet.  

How difficult should this be? The perfect blueprint was 80 miles down the road. 

[iramurphy]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

 I know there are several. And that would be one of the major arguments to my proposed change of seating arrangements. 

I believe I said that when there is pressure from fans for these seats then move the students. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, MrEdway said:

How difficult should this be? The perfect blueprint was 80 miles down the road. 

Some folks at the University of North Dakota have too much pride to admit when they’re wrong. Furthermore, they especially have too much pride when they have to admit they are wrong and that the rival institution 80 miles south is actually correct. 

[Irish]

53 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

If you think I am mistaken about empty seats at midfield on the home team side, then you are not paying attention. I sit on the 50 yard line row  Z.  There are over 100 empty seats above and around me virtually every game. The seats below concourse level are almost always full. My comment never said  attendance in this area is inferior to student attendance. My point is that when there is pressure for more season tickets, move the students.  In the meantime leave them where they are, right behind the opposing team. I would prefer students filling the seats they fill for however long they are at the game, rather than move them to the far end and leave the middle nearly empty. There is nothing about my comments that should lead you to believe that I think the “status quo” is acceptable.  

The fact that I and others don’t call for change every time a receiver drops a pass, the QB throws an interception or we miss a tackle or extra point only means that I don’t need to vent on this website. I find it more productive to sit down with the President, Athletic Director, Head Coach, and/or other boosters or Alumni to figure out how I might be able to help affect change. It isn’t arguing with you on this site about accepting mediocrity, the status quo, etc. I hope you can understand almost all fans want our teams to be successful. That means conference and national championships. That includes people who support our coaching staff and those who want to start over. It’s a very difficult and complicated process that we as fans, Alumni, boosters, administrators, coaches and players haven’t been successful at yet.  

Your approach sounds sensible and I'm sure it works very well for you.  However, from my perspective as a Captains Club member and season ticket holder in two sports the Athletic Department has not been very interested in my input - I have never asked for an appointment but either get no reply or some formulaic response thanking me for my input from my emails (including those to Chaves).  Chaves may be very different, but in general the Athletic Department has been glacially slow to change and almost impervious to input - see Coachs Jones, Idalski, Mussman, and now the 6th year of Bubba.  The fact that Bubba held on to Rudy for 5 years is a monument to our commitment to stick with what doesn't work.  If I felt that there was some kind of input I could give that was actually listened to I would be the first in line.  This thread is certainly a place to vent, but that doesn't mean many posters aren't absolutely correct about the program.  We as a group recognized Rudy long before anyone on the coaching staff or administration decided to do something.  

[iramurphy]

6 minutes ago, MrEdway said:

How difficult should this be? The perfect blueprint was 80 miles down the road. 

That blueprint worked for them. UND FB fan hits the nail on the head. It takes a University President who recognizes the value of intercollegiate athletics to the University experience for students (getting more difficult each year to maintain their interest) and the importance of the exposure what the University does for area and regional businesses and organizations. It’s a great marketing tool to attract prospective students, attract collaborative interactions with businesses, companies and organizations both regionally and nationally and studies show success athletically leads to increases in donations. UND does not have the advantage of the size of Fargo Moorhead. So much of their “blueprint “ is dependent on support from many non NDSU alumni. Sanford Health has been a difference maker for NDSU as well as SDSU, USD, Augustana, Bemidji State etc. UND turned down the first $10 million offer and subsequently the millions that followed elsewhere.  We need to review their blueprint but it will require leadership and our own blueprint that works for us. 

[iramurphy]

7 minutes ago, Irish said:

Your approach sounds sensible and I'm sure it works very well for you.  However, from my perspective as a Captains Club member and season ticket holder in two sports the Athletic Department has not been very interested in my input - I have never asked for an appointment but either get no reply or some formulaic response thanking me for my input from my emails (including those to Chaves).  Chaves may be very different, but in general the Athletic Department has been glacially slow to change and almost impervious to input - see Coachs Jones, Idalski, Mussman, and now the 6th year of Bubba.  The fact that Bubba held on to Rudy for 5 years is a monument to our commitment to stick with what doesn't work.  If I felt that there was some kind of input I could give that was actually listened to I would be the first in line.  This thread is certainly a place to vent, but that doesn't mean many posters aren't absolutely correct about the program.  We as a group recognized Rudy long before anyone on the coaching staff or administration decided to do something.  

They aren’t going to put any discussion about staff changes in an email nor on paper nor should they. Discussion about an employee’s performance/job security is protected information. Be the first in line to  make an appointment with the approach that you want to know how to help and then take the opportunity to share your frustration. Figure out how to be part of the solution. I knew Rudolph was out of his league the first year he was here. I expressed my opinion to Bubba. He listened, but didn’t seem to agree.  If enough people express willingness to help solve our issues and take the opportunity to express our frustrations, the are much more likely to pay attention.  When I spoke with Bubba, not that many people had turned on Rudolph yet.