UND @ James Madison Sunday May 2nd 5:00 PM Central Quarterfinals

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 hours ago, homer said:

UND averaged 4.7 ypc vs JMU, 4.5 ypc vs SDSU and over 5 vs NDSU.  
 

Yes they hit some big runs but that is pretty consistent.  

Take out the one longest run from those games by Otis and then what is the ypc average? of course it is less, but also this just shows that Freund was smart enough to not just keep banging his head against the wall when the running game wasn’t working.
 

UND lost to JMU and NDSU pretty convincingly so showcasing these selective stats is silly. And, once again, the biggest difference for UND in these games against top competition was their inability to stop the power running game. JMU and NDSU ran power football right down UND’s throat. Need bigger, tougher inside run defenders, from the defensive linemen, to the linebackers, to the safeties. The whole crew needs to improve. 

[shep]

7 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Take out the one longest run from those games by Otis and then what is the ypc average? of course it is less, but also this just shows that Freund was smart enough to not just keep banging his head against the wall when the running game wasn’t working.
 

UND lost to JMU and NDSU pretty convincingly so showcasing these selective stats is silly. And, once again, the biggest difference for UND in these games against top competition was their inability to stop the power running game. JMU and NDSU ran power football right down UND’s throat. Need bigger, tougher inside run defenders, from the defensive linemen, to the linebackers, to the safeties. The whole crew needs to improve. 

THIS!

 

To speak of the QB being the difference between W's and L's misses the point of what is really needed here. Bubba said as much in the Herald article. 

Are Beach and Orlando answers at DL?

LB's with size and speed along with better on ball defenders at safety are required.

Will the O line adequately replace the seniors starters? Those are the issues for next fall.

[homer]

50 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Take out the one longest run from those games by Otis and then what is the ypc average? of course it is less, but also this just shows that Freund was smart enough to not just keep banging his head against the wall when the running game wasn’t working.
 

UND lost to JMU and NDSU pretty convincingly so showcasing these selective stats is silly. And, once again, the biggest difference for UND in these games against top competition was their inability to stop the power running game. JMU and NDSU ran power football right down UND’s throat. Need bigger, tougher inside run defenders, from the defensive linemen, to the linebackers, to the safeties. The whole crew needs to improve. 

Sure you can be selective.  Take away Otis’ long runs vs those teams and he was still over 5 ypc vs NDSU and over 4 vs JMU.  The team would have been around 4 vs NDSU and just over 3 vs JMU.  Still not bad and maybe further proves my point.  
 

The bigger dline isn’t going to take some time to develop a rotation but I don’t disagree and the staff and players likely don’t either.  

[jdub27]

5 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

trick plays are usually for teams that know they are outmatched. 

What is even a trick play? Was ndsu's first rush against UND a trick play? All blocking motion including a pulling lineman to the left and the running back takes off right against the grain for wide lane. That's not a normal design. 

Most trick plays work because the offense has intentionally set something up prior or the defense has shown tendencies that can be exploited. If UND would have had it one score closer towards the end requiring JMU's defense to play a little more true and UND ran a stop and go for a wide open TD, is that a trick play as well? 

[geaux_sioux]

Just now, jdub27 said:

What is even a trick play? Was ndsu's first rush against UND a trick play. All blocking motion including a pulling lineman to the left and the running back cuts back right. 

Most trick plays work because the offense has intentionally set something up prior or the defense has shown tendencies that can be exploited. If UND would have had it one score closer towards the end to keep JMU's defense honest and ran a stop and go, is that a trick play as well? 

Apparently it’s a trick play if we gain too many yards.

[iramurphy]

7 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

referencing midwesternhawks stats...

8-18 with 1 pick for 90 yards previous to last drive and without gadget plays.

Not sure what your point is. Schuster didn’t have a great game but he had a pretty good year. He just isn’t a QB that has yet shown he can carry the team on his back. The gunslinger type with a cannon arm seems to have made Bubba a bit nervous in past. He has preferred the game managers like Studsrud and Schuster. Studsrud was a better running QB but Schuster has been a much better QB at same stage of development. One important thing we don’t know is the level of confidence the team has in the QB’s. All of our QB’s have the opportunity to improve and get better. It’s Schuster’s job to lose but a guy who can carry the team, make his teammates better and will be at their best against the best competition can become the starter. Maybe Schuster, maybe Quincy and possibly Feeney if his high school play can adjust to the speed and violence of the college game. 

[Sioux>Bison]

14 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I am sure our goal is to win a Natty.  Will the OL and DL EVER be good enough to do that with a game manager at QB who can't throw down field and is no threat to run?  Against JMU our O was horrible in the first qtr(into a strong wind).  We talk about the DL being a weakness and I agree we need a couple more bigger body types.  We also need some more speed at WR.  

We had to score after the JMU punt miscue early in the game.  The O was pathetic with that opportunity and part of that is a fumble which on Vaughn.  The DPI call the play before, was a terribly weak throw which should have been intercepted.

For better or worse, its a QB driven game now.  Ask yourself if the Bison would be still playing with good QB play?  Would we still be playing with JMU QB?  He threw 3 huge deep passes in that game, big double move throw in 2nd qtr(into wind),huge completion right before half(FG) and the back breaker in the 4th qtr.  Tommy won't even attempt those throws because he can't make them.  If the DB doesn't hurt himself on the pick 6 that game is over in the 2nd qtr.  Watch the NDSU, MSU and JMU games again, the book is out on Tommy.  Stack the box and make Tommy throw it deep, he can't. 

TOP was a disaster the last 3 games.  NDSU and JMU we struggled stopping the run, our O never gave D time to regroup with a long drive in either game, nor in last 3 qtrs vs MSU.  Luckily their O was dominated by our D. 

Damn we are close.

Our OL was good this year! Can’t ask for much more than only allowing 2 sacks all year!!! Maybe get better but they were already good.....

[iramurphy]

8 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

That’s part of my point.  Our longest drive was 3:28.  Defense was on field for almost 37 minutes.  We stopped the run much better early than late.  Needed a couple 8-10 play drives that take 7-8 minutes.

 

other than first qtr of MSU it was largely the same story the last 3 games.  I’ll shut  up now.  We are so damn close.

I didn’t agree with the timing of inserting Quincy with the exception of goal line play. I have thought the other 2 plays interrupted our momentum. The fumble really hurt. The other run went no where but there was no room to run and he was moving too slowly. Easy for me to second guess now but I would use him at the start of a new series or a short yardage situation. I hope he is patient enough to allow himself to development and I hope staff is also patient enough to give him the time needed. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Not sure what your point is. Schuster didn’t have a great game but he had a pretty good year. He just isn’t a QB that has yet shown he can carry the team on his back. The gunslinger type with a cannon arm seems to have made Bubba a bit nervous in past. He has preferred the game managers like Studsrud and Schuster. Studsrud was a better running QB but Schuster has been a much better QB at same stage of development. One important thing we don’t know is the level of confidence the team has in the QB’s. All of our QB’s have the opportunity to improve and get better. It’s Schuster’s job to lose but a guy who can carry the team, make his teammates better and will be at their best against the best competition can become the starter. Maybe Schuster, maybe Quincy and possibly Feeney if his high school play can adjust to the speed and violence of the college game. 

Tommy struggled the last 3 games. Teams have figured out his strengths and weaknesses and have made adjustments in how they play UND with Tommy as QB . 
Early in the season it was loose zone making it much easier to run screens out of multiple formations and to multiple guys.  Also easier to get guys open in the flats.  Most of Tommy’s throws are set throws, if you watch closely he is not usually going through his progressions post snap.  If the targeted receiver is covered he throws it away.  It’s also one of the reasons for the low number of sacks and pressures along with a  designed moving pocket.

UND was very effective with this and Tommy made most of those throws.  The last 3 games the coverage is much more tight man on edges with one high safety over the top. making the swing passes ans screens obsolete.  It also allows the defense to bring 8 into the box depending on our formation.  We have not been able to attack this defense which is the main reason for all of the offensive struggles the last 3 games which puts tons of pressure on the defense and wears them down.

tommy was far more effective the first 4 games then he has been the last 3.  I’m just afraid the book is out on Timmy so to speak, and Danny only has so many ways to compensate for the lack of deep balls and an running threat.   
 

Danny drained the playbook getting us back into the game in 2nd qtr last night.  He has done a fantastic job overall this spring making the offense work. 
 

 

[Midwestern Hawk]

46 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I didn’t agree with the timing of inserting Quincy with the exception of goal line play. I have thought the other 2 plays interrupted our momentum. The fumble really hurt. The other run went no where but there was no room to run and he was moving too slowly. Easy for me to second guess now but I would use him at the start of a new series or a short yardage situation. I hope he is patient enough to allow himself to development and I hope staff is also patient enough to give him the time needed. 

I agree on the moments with Q.  That first fumbled snap was huge after we had gotten a first down via PI and we needed to score in that moment. The loss of 10 yards killed us.  Using him near the goal line where he scored was brilliant. 
i am not sure why Danny didn’t use Otis and Quincy in a read option. Otis pulling defenders to the left and Quincy taking ball straight ahead or to the right would be tough to stop.

[SiouxFan100]

I am still pissed JMU tried to score with less than one minute left in the game.

[iramurphy]

23 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Tommy struggled the last 3 games. Teams have figured out his strengths and weaknesses and have made adjustments in how they play UND with Tommy as QB . 
Early in the season it was loose zone making it much easier to run screens out of multiple formations and to multiple guys.  Also easier to get guys open in the flats.  Most of Tommy’s throws are set throws, if you watch closely he is not usually going through his progressions post snap.  If the targeted receiver is covered he throws it away.  It’s also one of the reasons for the low number of sacks and pressures along with a  designed moving pocket.

UND was very effective with this and Tommy made most of those throws.  The last 3 games the coverage is much more tight man on edges with one high safety over the top. making the swing passes ans screens obsolete.  It also allows the defense to bring 8 into the box depending on our formation.  We have not been able to attack this defense which is the main reason for all of the offensive struggles the last 3 games which puts tons of pressure on the defense and wears them down.

tommy was far more effective the first 4 games then he has been the last 3.  I’m just afraid the book is out on Timmy so to speak, and Danny only has so many ways to compensate for the lack of deep balls and an running threat.   
 

Danny drained the playbook getting us back into the game in 2nd qtr last night.  He has done a fantastic job overall this spring making the offense work. 
 

 

I think teams saw him as one dimensional. They didn’t think he would hurt them as a runner. That allows teams to get an extra guy in the box which slow down run game. We must continue to improve oline and dline play especially in run game. 

[iramurphy]

23 minutes ago, SiouxFan100 said:

I am still pissed JMU tried to score with less than one minute left in the game.

I coached BB at GFC one year under Dick Vinger and Pat Sullivan. Vinger said “When you win,say little. When you lose say less”.  We got beat, didn’t matter, not sure why they ran the play, but, it’s best to let it go. 

[Nodak78]

47 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Tommy struggled the last 3 games. Teams have figured out his strengths and weaknesses and have made adjustments in how they play UND with Tommy as QB . 
Early in the season it was loose zone making it much easier to run screens out of multiple formations and to multiple guys.  Also easier to get guys open in the flats.  Most of Tommy’s throws are set throws, if you watch closely he is not usually going through his progressions post snap.  If the targeted receiver is covered he throws it away.  It’s also one of the reasons for the low number of sacks and pressures along with a  designed moving pocket.

UND was very effective with this and Tommy made most of those throws.  The last 3 games the coverage is much more tight man on edges with one high safety over the top. making the swing passes ans screens obsolete.  It also allows the defense to bring 8 into the box depending on our formation.  We have not been able to attack this defense which is the main reason for all of the offensive struggles the last 3 games which puts tons of pressure on the defense and wears them down.

tommy was far more effective the first 4 games then he has been the last 3.  I’m just afraid the book is out on Timmy so to speak, and Danny only has so many ways to compensate for the lack of deep balls and an running threat.   
 

Danny drained the playbook getting us back into the game in 2nd qtr last night.  He has done a fantastic job overall this spring making the offense work. 
 

 

Did Tommy struggle or did the team struggle.  Please let it go.  You beating a dead horse.  Look forward to next season.

[JohnboyND7]

58 minutes ago, SiouxFan100 said:

I am still pissed JMU tried to score with less than one minute left in the game.

I'm on team kneel the ball as well. This ain't the BCS or Selection Committee picking top 4 where style points matter.

[Siouxperman8]

Pretty excited about this spring season and what we accomplished.  

Sure we have things to improve on but I don't get the negativity by a few on here.  Tommy wasn't perfect but he was pretty good playing as a RS freshman and will only get better with more experience.   I'm sure those on here that played in college remember how fast the game was at first and how it slowed down for them as they got older.

[UND1983]

1 hour ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Tommy struggled the last 3 games. Teams have figured out his strengths and weaknesses and have made adjustments in how they play UND with Tommy as QB . 
Early in the season it was loose zone making it much easier to run screens out of multiple formations and to multiple guys.  Also easier to get guys open in the flats.  Most of Tommy’s throws are set throws, if you watch closely he is not usually going through his progressions post snap.  If the targeted receiver is covered he throws it away.  It’s also one of the reasons for the low number of sacks and pressures along with a  designed moving pocket.

UND was very effective with this and Tommy made most of those throws.  The last 3 games the coverage is much more tight man on edges with one high safety over the top. making the swing passes ans screens obsolete.  It also allows the defense to bring 8 into the box depending on our formation.  We have not been able to attack this defense which is the main reason for all of the offensive struggles the last 3 games which puts tons of pressure on the defense and wears them down.

 

They ran a bunch of swing passes and wr screens vs Missouri State.  

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

I like this discussion! 

The message I'm getting from SS posters; mediocracy isn't in the conversation and the hunger by all to be in the top tier of FCS is here.

We need that appetite to spread through out our fan base.

The FB team made many improvements from the prior season and hopefully will continue to do the same.

We've made it through our first season in the MVFC.
 

[bulldogg]

2 hours ago, SiouxFan100 said:

I am still pissed JMU tried to score with less than one minute left in the game.

I would like to address that. 

Many JMU fans, including yours truly, have been majorly ticked at Cig (Coach Cignetti) for not playing a full 60 minutes of football. He tends to let off the gas near the end of the first half and the end of the game instead of going for the jugular and leaving no doubt.

Last week, we were beating a very good VMI team 38-10 at the end of the third quarter, and almost lost the game because Cig let off the gas, put in the clean jerseys, and VMI came storming back on our second team, scoring a TD to pull the game within seven points with seconds left. They went for the obvious onside kick and we recovered, ending the game. A bad bounce and we could have lost that game, all because Cig was being politically correct, attempting to be a gentleman and all that, and as a result, we could have lost that game.

Cig may have been thinking, 'This is not a time of year to not put teams away completely before letting off of the gas.' But, I think it is simpler than that. On the last play, we did go into the victory formation and ended the game. The play before, Latrele Palmer carried and was stopped short of the goal line. I believe Cig was simply trying to give one of our best running backs who had had not nearly enough carries in the game or the season one more tote to keep him happy. We are blessed to be very rich at running back this year, and in my opinion, Latrele is the best running back we have, by far. He has not had nearly enough reps this season. If there is one back I would hate to see enter the portal for lack of playing time, it is Latrele. I call him the 60-MPH bulldozer. At 6'/225 and can fly, I believe the kid has an NFL future. And he is a youngster, a true sophomore, I believe.

So, I believe that was all Cig was doing, and I don't disagree with it. The game was over, what difference does it make?

And, having done the gentlemanly thing all season, refusing to punch the ball into the endzone at the end of halves cost us in seeding.

UND is a tremendous team. I believe your future is very bright. We will likely see you again in future playoffs, even though I am one of those screaming to move to FBS, especially FBS indy, but our admin doesn't seem to give a doodly what the fans want.

Anyway, don't be too hard on Cig for those last couple of plays. He was just using those precious postseason seconds to improve his team. We have still played only seven games which is basically half a regular season. Live game reps are precious and very much needed right now.

 

[CMSioux]

6 hours ago, bulldogg said:

I would like to address that. 

Many JMU fans, including yours truly, have been majorly ticked at Cig (Coach Cignetti) for not playing a full 60 minutes of football. He tends to let off the gas near the end of the first half and the end of the game instead of going for the jugular and leaving no doubt.

Last week, we were beating a very good VMI team 38-10 at the end of the third quarter, and almost lost the game because Cig let off the gas, put in the clean jerseys, and VMI came storming back on our second team, scoring a TD to pull the game within seven points with seconds left. They went for the obvious onside kick and we recovered, ending the game. A bad bounce and we could have lost that game, all because Cig was being politically correct, attempting to be a gentleman and all that, and as a result, we could have lost that game.

Cig may have been thinking, 'This is not a time of year to not put teams away completely before letting off of the gas.' But, I think it is simpler than that. On the last play, we did go into the victory formation and ended the game. The play before, Latrele Palmer carried and was stopped short of the goal line. I believe Cig was simply trying to give one of our best running backs who had had not nearly enough carries in the game or the season one more tote to keep him happy. We are blessed to be very rich at running back this year, and in my opinion, Latrele is the best running back we have, by far. He has not had nearly enough reps this season. If there is one back I would hate to see enter the portal for lack of playing time, it is Latrele. I call him the 60-MPH bulldozer. At 6'/225 and can fly, I believe the kid has an NFL future. And he is a youngster, a true sophomore, I believe.

So, I believe that was all Cig was doing, and I don't disagree with it. The game was over, what difference does it make?

And, having done the gentlemanly thing all season, refusing to punch the ball into the endzone at the end of halves cost us in seeding.

UND is a tremendous team. I believe your future is very bright. We will likely see you again in future playoffs, even though I am one of those screaming to move to FBS, especially FBS indy, but our admin doesn't seem to give a doodly what the fans want.

Anyway, don't be too hard on Cig for those last couple of plays. He was just using those precious postseason seconds to improve his team. We have still played only seven games which is basically half a regular season. Live game reps are precious and very much needed right now.

 

Apoeared that a JMU player was hurt on that last attempt to score.

[Und246]

In this particular situation he didn’t need to keep foot on gas. No exclamation will justify it. Tacky. 

[Dustin]

7 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

We need that appetite to spread through out our fan base.

From my personal interactions, this is a MAJOR problem right now.  One of the only persons with whom I can have a legitimate conversation about UND football (other than all of you) is an NDSU fanatic that follows all of the MVFC and FCS.

[Dustin]

To expand a little on my past post, I think many UND people have (incorrectly, IMO) gone on the defense that what NDSU has done isn't really relevant because "FCS isn't true Division I football."  While there is some truth to that, I would certainly rather have UND with 8 FCS national championships than NDSU.  And maybe the flamboyant Bison fans really try to cram down people's throats how good they are at Division I football which has given UND people a bad taste in their mouth.  I don't remember people thinking what the Bison did in the '80s in Division II as irrelevant.  It's been a tough go for UND football, really ever since NDSU moved up and we didn't.  Between the nickname fight, UND's intense focus on hockey (including women's hockey for a while), the loss to U of Sioux Falls, the Bison's dominance, and the Fargo media, it's just nice to look to the future and see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Midwestern Hawk]

37 minutes ago, Dustin said:

To expand a little on my past post, I think many UND people have (incorrectly, IMO) gone on the defense that what NDSU has done isn't really relevant because "FCS isn't true Division I football."  While there is some truth to that, I would certainly rather have UND with 8 FCS national championships than NDSU.  And maybe the flamboyant Bison fans really try to cram down people's throats how good they are at Division I football which has given UND people a bad taste in their mouth.  I don't remember people thinking what the Bison did in the '80s in Division II as irrelevant.  It's been a tough go for UND football, really ever since NDSU moved up and we didn't.  Between the nickname fight, UND's intense focus on hockey (including women's hockey for a while), the loss to U of Sioux Falls, the Bison's dominance, and the Fargo media, it's just nice to look to the future and see the light at the end of the tunnel.

What NDSU has done is historic and IMO will never be repeated at the FBS or FCS level.  That being said, I think they are at the end of the rainbow and it has showed this spring.

[FlinFlan80]

17 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

fun game...fun season but 7 years later our O-line and D-line aren't up to snuff yet....we'll get there eventually.

How in the hell are you actually complaining about the OL? That's the best products we have seen in years and if you watched any FCS football one of the best in the country. They aren't perfect and probably not the best in the country, but they certainly aren't worth complaining about. Waletzko is probably going to the league.....