Time to Boo Berry?

[burd]

Sounds like you're saying the programs hurt by the NIL policy will likely not have the leverage to ensure (through regulation) that the moneys gifted to the players are, in fact, generated from the marketing of that player's image, name or likeness?  It's just laundered money from individual and corporate boosters.

[fightingsioux4life]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35727606/ncaa-sanctions-miami-women-hoop-nil-related-infraction%3fplatform=amp

Maybe @Frozen4sioux can explain this away? Without calling me stupid this time.

[Benny Baker]

41 minutes ago, burd said:

Sounds like you're saying the programs hurt by the NIL policy will likely not have the leverage to ensure (through regulation) that the moneys gifted to the players are, in fact, generated from the marketing of that player's image, name or likeness?  It's just laundered money from individual and corporate boosters.

Not sure much can be done.

Marketing of a player’s name, image, or likeness includes “appearance fees”.  NIL allows individuals or corporate boosters to launder money to athletes by simply having them come shake some hands and take some photographs at a back yard meet and great. 

[Frozen4sioux]

23 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35727606/ncaa-sanctions-miami-women-hoop-nil-related-infraction%3fplatform=amp

Maybe @Frozen4sioux can explain this away? Without calling me stupid this time.

I was hoping you would go out and find this HEADLINE to try and "dunk" on it., because I knew you wouldn't understand the situation or how it relates to the overall topic.

Basically someone who knows absolutely nothing about the topic,

....and doesn't read details...

would actually think there something to this extreamly recent, ongoing, presently unlitigated and toothless attempt by the NCAA to regulate the NIL landscape

Hint: It doesn't. 

It was meaningless and toothless and literally spells out how not to conduct the activity vs stopping the activity.

 

This case also has nothing to do with anything you've tried to pretend to know about the NIL landscape.

What you and everyone needs to understand is that.

NIL will be, and IS the most influential and landscape altering aspect of college athletics for the remainder of the NCAAs existence.

It's never going to not be an issue in the college athletics world again. 

Nothing can stop it. 

It is a major factor right now in the recruiting landscape of college hockey.

Combined with the portal it's never going to be a non issue again.

Having your head ignorantly in the sand isn't going to change that.

[CarpeRemote]

2 hours ago, burd said:

Sounds like you're saying the programs hurt by the NIL policy will likely not have the leverage to ensure (through regulation) that the moneys gifted to the players are, in fact, generated from the marketing of that player's image, name or likeness?  It's just laundered money from individual and corporate boosters.

This isn’t directed at you but this shows how far behind many are in understanding nil.

From a non profit standpoint, caveman days billboards cost me $900/mo. What is a local star player’s 10-50k engaged social media followers worth? Answer, whatever the market bears.

If someone Is paying a kid 1M to sell air then they will answer to the IRS at deduction time. So I have zero concerns about “laundering”.
 

Regarding charitable collectives, they are run by BODs well known to the community and are open to IRS audits and have IRS rules, such as the pay must be in line with services. That’s regulation by current laws

 

if a UND charitable collective asks a highly visible, marketable enrolled athlete to raise awareness for Anne Carlsen, Development Homes, or Community Foundation via events, appearances, fundraisers, social media etc, is that worth $10-50k? Yep. Can they openly say they will only work with UND athletes? Yes they can.  
Can the school help athletes be aware of nil opportunities? Again, yes, and they should.
 

Not complicated,  It’s just business. If I had a semi-local business I’d advertise via my favorite player’s instagram, but instead I’d gladly contribute $400/month to a charitable collective. A kid could afford to be in college and I’d be doing good work. Most collectives allow you to ACH as low as $20/month tax deductible. 
 

Now multiply that by thousands, focus it toward hockey, and we are in business 
 

 

 

 

[burd]

3 hours ago, CarpeRemote said:

This isn’t directed at you but this shows how far behind many are in understanding nil.

From a non profit standpoint, caveman days billboards cost me $900/mo. What is a local star player’s 10-50k engaged social media followers worth? Answer, whatever the market bears.

If someone Is paying a kid 1M to sell air then they will answer to the IRS at deduction time. So I have zero concerns about “laundering”.
 

Regarding charitable collectives, they are run by BODs well known to the community and are open to IRS audits and have IRS rules, such as the pay must be in line with services. That’s regulation by current laws

 

if a UND charitable collective asks a highly visible, marketable enrolled athlete to raise awareness for Anne Carlsen, Development Homes, or Community Foundation via events, appearances, fundraisers, social media etc, is that worth $10-50k? Yep. Can they openly say they will only work with UND athletes? Yes they can.  
Can the school help athletes be aware of nil opportunities? Again, yes, and they should.
 

Not complicated,  It’s just business. If I had a semi-local business I’d advertise via my favorite player’s instagram, but instead I’d gladly contribute $400/month to a charitable collective. A kid could afford to be in college and I’d be doing good work. Most collectives allow you to ACH as low as $20/month tax deductible. 
 

Now multiply that by thousands, focus it toward hockey, and we are in business 
 

 

 

 

Thanks for that.   

BTW, if I need to be set straight, direct it at me.  We would all benefit from being set straight now and then.  

[dustnyou]

Wouldn’t an easy, legal and successful way to have big money into an NIL program be to run it through the Sioux Shop? I don’t know the details but I think Englestad Arena or the Englestad Foundation owns the Sioux Shop right? So they could offer a player $x to do appearances, commercials, social media marketing, etc to promote the Sioux Shop merchandise. They can get paid for this. The Sioux Shop could also pay players a % of the profits for all merchandise sold with their Name or Image on it. Jerseys, terseys, bobble heads, posters, etc. You buy a $150 Perron jersey / $50 goes to Perron. Am I out of line with this or missing something? 

[Benny Baker]

8 hours ago, CarpeRemote said:

This isn’t directed at you but this shows how far behind many are in understanding nil.

From a non profit standpoint, caveman days billboards cost me $900/mo. What is a local star player’s 10-50k engaged social media followers worth? Answer, whatever the market bears.

If someone Is paying a kid 1M to sell air then they will answer to the IRS at deduction time. So I have zero concerns about “laundering”.
 

Regarding charitable collectives, they are run by BODs well known to the community and are open to IRS audits and have IRS rules, such as the pay must be in line with services. That’s regulation by current laws

 

if a UND charitable collective asks a highly visible, marketable enrolled athlete to raise awareness for Anne Carlsen, Development Homes, or Community Foundation via events, appearances, fundraisers, social media etc, is that worth $10-50k? Yep. Can they openly say they will only work with UND athletes? Yes they can.  
Can the school help athletes be aware of nil opportunities? Again, yes, and they should.
 

Not complicated,  It’s just business. If I had a semi-local business I’d advertise via my favorite player’s instagram, but instead I’d gladly contribute $400/month to a charitable collective. A kid could afford to be in college and I’d be doing good work. Most collectives allow you to ACH as low as $20/month tax deductible. 
 

Now multiply that by thousands, focus it toward hockey, and we are in business 
 

 

 

 

I hope you or someone translates those ideas into action, and I will contribute the first $400/month.

But, the size of alumni base is where I also think UND losses in the long run. For everyone UND grad, BIG 10 schools have 4-5 grads that can contribute to NIL funding. 

[Benny Baker]

I know there’s various opinions on the Engelstad’s and REA’s influence at UND, but the Engelstads would definitely be one source someone should be trying to leverage NIL opportunities from.

[iramurphy]

Crater and Benny have both outlined major challenges. The school enrollments increase the chance of alumni with the resources and the interest in intercollegiate athletics. The power 5 schools especially the Big10 have an advantage of larger enrollments, but league revenues that make it easier for donors funds to be diverted to NIL use rather than day to day operating expenses. Those schools are more likely to have corporate/big business/wealthy alumni. 
UND has loyal and generous alumni. We have alums and supporters on this forum donating hundreds, thousands and in some cases tens of thousands each year to UND athletics. We have alumni donating millions but mostly those go to the Alumni foundation for endowments,,building projects or scholarships. 
UND hockey has one key donor that has been extremely generous over the years having given well over $100,000,000. The Engelstad Foundation continues their very generous support. Many of the other schools have multiple million dollar donors who support athletics. 
I wouldn’t know what their thoughts are regarding NIL.
Regardless of their interest,I believe if is in UND’s best interest to coordinate the creation of a fund including a management team, to insure everything is done legally and in compliance with NCAA guidelines in order to maintain the athletes eligibility and keep UND in compliance. A creation of a coalition of businesses and organizations willing and able participate in reimbursement to athletes for their endorsements etc. needs a central coordination team that can assist UND staff and donors in directing these resources where they are needed. 
In addition to the big schools, metro areas and league resources we shouldn’t overlook the number of east coast school alumni in large law firms, the financial world including Wall Street. I was at a Memorial Day picnic with my daughter and son-in-laws friends. The host was a former BC player making millions per year. His Dad, also a former BC player is a hedge fund guy. Among their friends is a former Quinnipiac player also making millions each year who spent around $50,000,000 last year on a boat. The smaller private schools seem to have a large number of the mega wealthy.  These are 2 schools who can generate millions from just 2 families who support hockey. 
Its a bit of a mess because the NCAA is reacting instead of leading. 
My thought would be to get a group of hockey alumni together to form a subcommittee for hockey. Many have made a few million to ten or more million. They can challenge each other for a $10,000 or more commitment from those who can and then coordinate their support with the Engelstad Foundation. The next step would be coordinating present support from folks like us with UND athletics, and businesses or organizations interested in NIL relationships. 
Football is our other sport with strong alumni support. Form a FB subcommittee to initiate a fund and attempt to establish an on going relationship with key Alumni like Marc Chipman, Tip Enebak, Dave Fennell and gauge their interest. 
Once these sub committees are formed and initial funds raised, UND can continue to coordinate and direct resources from the rest of us who can contribute $50 or $50,000 etc. 

I believe Hockey and FB could take the lead, coordinate organizational structure etc. and how to coordinate support for UND athletics. I believe these subcommittees can be the blueprint for what we do with other sports. 
You attorneys can tell me if it won’t work. I’m not sure it is viable but I believe we need to be doing something. UND may already be working on this and may be way ahead of my goofy ideas. 

[Oxbow6]

[petey23]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Crater and Benny have both outlined major challenges. The school enrollments increase the chance of alumni with the resources and the interest in intercollegiate athletics. The power 5 schools especially the Big10 have an advantage of larger enrollments, but league revenues that make it easier for donors funds to be diverted to NIL use rather than day to day operating expenses. Those schools are more likely to have corporate/big business/wealthy alumni. 
UND has loyal and generous alumni. We have alums and supporters on this forum donating hundreds, thousands and in some cases tens of thousands each year to UND athletics. We have alumni donating millions but mostly those go to the Alumni foundation for endowments,,building projects or scholarships. 
UND hockey has one key donor that has been extremely generous over the years having given well over $100,000,000. The Engelstad Foundation continues their very generous support. Many of the other schools have multiple million dollar donors who support athletics. 
I wouldn’t know what their thoughts are regarding NIL.
Regardless of their interest,I believe if is in UND’s best interest to coordinate the creation of a fund including a management team, to insure everything is done legally and in compliance with NCAA guidelines in order to maintain the athletes eligibility and keep UND in compliance. A creation of a coalition of businesses and organizations willing and able participate in reimbursement to athletes for their endorsements etc. needs a central coordination team that can assist UND staff and donors in directing these resources where they are needed. 
In addition to the big schools, metro areas and league resources we shouldn’t overlook the number of east coast school alumni in large law firms, the financial world including Wall Street. I was at a Memorial Day picnic with my daughter and son-in-laws friends. The host was a former BC player making millions per year. His Dad, also a former BC player is a hedge fund guy. Among their friends is a former Quinnipiac player also making millions each year who spent around $50,000,000 last year on a boat. The smaller private schools seem to have a large number of the mega wealthy.  These are 2 schools who can generate millions from just 2 families who support hockey. 
Its a bit of a mess because the NCAA is reacting instead of leading. 
My thought would be to get a group of hockey alumni together to form a subcommittee for hockey. Many have made a few million to ten or more million. The can challenge each other for a 10,000 or more commitment from those who can and then coordinate their support with the Engelstad Foundation. The next step would be coordinating present support from folks like us with UND athletics, and businesses or organizations interested in NIL relationships. 
Football is our other sport with strong alumni support. Former a FB subcommittee to initiate a fund attempt to establish an on going relationship with key Alumni like Marc Chipman, Tip Enebak, Dave Fennell and gauge their interest. 
Once these sub committees are formed and initial funds raised, UND can continue to coordinate and direct from the rest of us who can contribute $50 or $50,000 etc. 

I believe Hockey and FB could take the lead, coordinate organizational structure etc. and how to coordinate support for UND athletics. I believe these subcommittees can be the blueprint for what we do with other sports. 
You attorneys can tell me if it won’t work. I’m not sure it is viable but I we need to be doing something. UND may already be working on this and may be way ahead of my goofy ideas. 

[fightingsioux4life]

15 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

I was hoping you would go out and find this HEADLINE to try and "dunk" on it., because I knew you wouldn't understand the situation or how it relates to the overall topic.

Basically someone who knows absolutely nothing about the topic,

....and doesn't read details...

would actually think there something to this extreamly recent, ongoing, presently unlitigated and toothless attempt by the NCAA to regulate the NIL landscape

Hint: It doesn't. 

It was meaningless and toothless and literally spells out how not to conduct the activity vs stopping the activity.

 

This case also has nothing to do with anything you've tried to pretend to know about the NIL landscape.

What you and everyone needs to understand is that.

NIL will be, and IS the most influential and landscape altering aspect of college athletics for the remainder of the NCAAs existence.

It's never going to not be an issue in the college athletics world again. 

Nothing can stop it. 

It is a major factor right now in the recruiting landscape of college hockey.

Combined with the portal it's never going to be a non issue again.

Having your head ignorantly in the sand isn't going to change that.

You need to take a pill and lie down.

[Kab]

If Engelstad was still living the NIL would have been taken care of .

not happening now.

who will take the lead on this? Past players, local business? 
‘how much per player would be appropriate ?

are big 10 players getting NIL?

[Cratter]

Drafted 31 overall last summer. Suddenly going to a Big Ten school. 

 

[The Sicatoka]

The MSU coach was the US NTDP coach. I suspect that has to do with Savage and Howard landing there. 

[Frozen4sioux]

8 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Crater and Benny have both outlined major challenges. The school enrollments increase the chance of alumni with the resources and the interest in intercollegiate athletics. The power 5 schools especially the Big10 have an advantage of larger enrollments, but league revenues that make it easier for donors funds to be diverted to NIL use rather than day to day operating expenses. Those schools are more likely to have corporate/big business/wealthy alumni. 
UND has loyal and generous alumni. We have alums and supporters on this forum donating hundreds, thousands and in some cases tens of thousands each year to UND athletics. We have alumni donating millions but mostly those go to the Alumni foundation for endowments,,building projects or scholarships. 
UND hockey has one key donor that has been extremely generous over the years having given well over $100,000,000. The Engelstad Foundation continues their very generous support. Many of the other schools have multiple million dollar donors who support athletics. 
I wouldn’t know what their thoughts are regarding NIL.
Regardless of their interest,I believe if is in UND’s best interest to coordinate the creation of a fund including a management team, to insure everything is done legally and in compliance with NCAA guidelines in order to maintain the athletes eligibility and keep UND in compliance. A creation of a coalition of businesses and organizations willing and able participate in reimbursement to athletes for their endorsements etc. needs a central coordination team that can assist UND staff and donors in directing these resources where they are needed. 
In addition to the big schools, metro areas and league resources we shouldn’t overlook the number of east coast school alumni in large law firms, the financial world including Wall Street. I was at a Memorial Day picnic with my daughter and son-in-laws friends. The host was a former BC player making millions per year. His Dad, also a former BC player is a hedge fund guy. Among their friends is a former Quinnipiac player also making millions each year who spent around $50,000,000 last year on a boat. The smaller private schools seem to have a large number of the mega wealthy.  These are 2 schools who can generate millions from just 2 families who support hockey. 
Its a bit of a mess because the NCAA is reacting instead of leading. 
My thought would be to get a group of hockey alumni together to form a subcommittee for hockey. Many have made a few million to ten or more million. They can challenge each other for a $10,000 or more commitment from those who can and then coordinate their support with the Engelstad Foundation. The next step would be coordinating present support from folks like us with UND athletics, and businesses or organizations interested in NIL relationships. 
Football is our other sport with strong alumni support. Form a FB subcommittee to initiate a fund and attempt to establish an on going relationship with key Alumni like Marc Chipman, Tip Enebak, Dave Fennell and gauge their interest. 
Once these sub committees are formed and initial funds raised, UND can continue to coordinate and direct resources from the rest of us who can contribute $50 or $50,000 etc. 

I believe Hockey and FB could take the lead, coordinate organizational structure etc. and how to coordinate support for UND athletics. I believe these subcommittees can be the blueprint for what we do with other sports. 
You attorneys can tell me if it won’t work. I’m not sure it is viable but I believe we need to be doing something. UND may already be working on this and may be way ahead of my goofy ideas. 

Lots of good thought here, shows knowledge of issue for sure.

Once of the most realistic issues UND (and most all other universities) will have is something you elude to... UND NIL collectives will compete with the Alumni Association, the REA, the foundations, and UND itself for the monies that are out there and available. (sports will compete against other sport too)

So a fair question is; How supportive, really supportive, is the University, the Alumni Association, and the Athletic Department going to be in the existence of the collectives.

So far the "wait and see" attitude seems to be the messege.

That's not going to be sustainable, but I fear UND is hoping the NCAA can reign in the demon and at this point, that's not possible.

[iramurphy]

30 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

 

Once of the most realistic issues UND (and most all other universities) will have is something you elude to... UND NIL collectives will compete with the Alumni Association, the REA, the foundations, and UND itself for the monies that are out there and available. (sports will compete against other sport too)

So a fair question is; How supportive, really supportive, is the University, the Alumni Association, and the Athletic Department going to be in the existence of the collectives.

 

My guess is the Alumni Association wants little, if anything, to do with it. It is my limited experience with the present leadership they don’t want to lose control of any donated dollars if they can help it. I understand their position. 
The Athletic Dept is likely discussing the ramifications and potential needs with coaches and other AD around the country. It presents a huge challenge during a campaign to raise funds for Phase 2 and proposed plans for the softball field. 
The REA will likely do what they can to furnish resources and coordinate with the Engelstad Foundation. Hockey is likely our top priority. 
Just my gut feeling in answer to your question. I have no idea where we are nor what has been done. Your guess is as good as mine. 

[nodak651]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:55 AM, Wilbur said:

What I don't get is that Berry's teams play much much less physical than Hak's and take less penalties.  The physical play would get Hak's teams out of position at times, but we loved the huge hits that weren't majors like they are today and teams had to have their heads up at all times skating through neutral ice.

So outside of Kleven, we don't play that hockey anymore.  Why on earth did our d zone go to absolute hell throughout the season, and cost us again on a 3x3 rush to end the season?

We got off trying to blame the goaltending through most of it, but the 7-6 loss to Western rang the bell that it wasn't just the goaltending.  Save percentage gets owned by one guy but it's a team statistic.  

And now Brad has a huge reconstruction task on the defensive side of things....

Gonna be a long few months....

 

This is my #1 issue.  Team as a whole has been soft and and doesn't seem to have the same passion as Hak's teams.  Reminds me more of the Lucia Gopher teams in that respect.

[nodak651]

11 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Lots of good thought here, shows knowledge of issue for sure.

Once of the most realistic issues UND (and most all other universities) will have is something you elude to... UND NIL collectives will compete with the Alumni Association, the REA, the foundations, and UND itself for the monies that are out there and available. (sports will compete against other sport too)

So a fair question is; How supportive, really supportive, is the University, the Alumni Association, and the Athletic Department going to be in the existence of the collectives.

So far the "wait and see" attitude seems to be the messege.

That's not going to be sustainable, but I fear UND is hoping the NCAA can reign in the demon and at this point, that's not possible.

There's also a middle ground between doing nothing and NIL collectives. 

UND is missing out on NIL opportunities that can be mutually beneficial to both players and UND - No reason the Ralph/UND isn't selling shirts or jerseys with both UNDs logo and current player names/numbers.  

[tnt]

If Berry didn't force his players to watch the selection show, and subsequent takeover of Scheels Arena by rivals, maybe he needs to show them that those rivals are now mocking us.   

 

 

[siouxkid12]

On 3/25/2023 at 5:48 PM, burd said:

Since college hockey is such a niche sport, NIL ought to have less impact, though a larger media market like Mpls-Stp that is hockey-centric certainly should have a big advantage over UND or even DU, simply from a marketing standpoint. 

And don't try to say I'm wrong.   A girl gets tired of being wrong all the time.

They certainly should have a larger media market to utilize but when majority of the metro does not give two craps about UofM hockey (and it shows due to fans not going to games), who's going to know these hockey players that are promoting products?

The businesses in Grand Forks should be lining up an NIL program for UND's athlete's (be it hockey, BBall, Football). The athletes in Grand Forks are the closest thing to professionals Grand Forks will ever see on a regular basis and businesses like Hugo's, Rydell's, Italian Moon, Grand Auto Mart, Wahlen's, North Dakota Eye Clinic, Scheel's, etc.. should be wanting to utilize these athletes. UND cannot afford to sit back on this and not utilize this NIL to further our programs.

[SIOUXFAN97]

anyone remember ladue's breakout pass in 2016 ( i think ladue and i think 2016)...i think he hit a breaking boeser or stetcher for a goal in the playoffs?....taht pass to cooley last night was almost as nice!

 

[Kevin G]

3 hours ago, nodak651 said:

There's also a middle ground between doing nothing and NIL collectives. 

UND is missing out on NIL opportunities that can be mutually beneficial to both players and UND - No reason the Ralph/UND isn't selling shirts or jerseys with both UNDs logo and current player names/numbers.  

This. How is this not already happening? What am I missing? Like, this seems like a freaking layup! We'd love a Blake or Strinden jersey now [insert "Take my money!" meme here]. Plus, if I recall the early NIL discussions, jersey sales were a specific example of how current athletes (and schools!) could legitimately benefit from NIL. 

[stoneySIOUX]

3 hours ago, tnt said:

If Berry didn't force his players to watch the selection show, and subsequent takeover of Scheels Arena by rivals, maybe he needs to show them that those rivals are now mocking us.   

 

 

We're each other's biggest rival. It's 2023. If you didn't see this coming, you haven't been following along. Next time we win a regional in Minnesota, especially if Minny isn't involved, remember this tweet. I guarantee it'll come back around.

It's a silly jab at a massive rival and frankly, if the program needs this as any additional motivation, that would just be stupid.