Time to Boo Berry?

[GDPritch]

1 hour ago, siouxweet said:

Since 2016 3 league titles 0 NCAA titles and soon to be 3 non playoff appearances. 

Duluth in that same span 0 league and 2 NCAA and hasn't missed a tournament.

Denver 2 league titles, 2 NCAA and has missed 1 tournament.

It's the green banners that really matter and this will be the third time in his tenure they won't even get to play for one.  

Not sure if correct or but I swear I saw the other day that UND has just 1 win in NCAA tourney play since winning the natty in 2016.  It could well be true when you throw in 3 seasons (am including this season, hope am proved wrong) not making the tourney and 2020 no tourney held (COVID).  If so, believe that’s on par with the football team?  Yoy.

[The Sicatoka]

32 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I've thought for a while that he should be the next HC, but wouldn't Jackson be the heir apparent?

Not if you're looking to make a generational leap (from legacy-Gino to legacy-Blais). 

[siouxweet]

46 minutes ago, GDPritch said:

Not sure if correct or but I swear I saw the other day that UND has just 1 win in NCAA tourney play since winning the natty in 2016.  It could well be true when you throw in 3 seasons (am including this season, hope am proved wrong) not making the tourney and 2020 no tourney held (COVID).  If so, believe that’s on par with the football team?  Yoy.

Yes over AIC in 2021

[gfhockey]

Don’t question goon and stoney

 

they are ok with status quo

 

 

[Goon]

2 hours ago, gfhockey said:

Don’t question goon and stoney

 

they are ok with status quo

 

 

Must be a slow day at the Credit Union?  
 

No one is happy with the status quo but let’s be reasonable. We had fans that want to fire Hakstol because he hadn’t NCAA title. Last time I checked, Hak was coaching in the NHL. 

Then, we have coach that wins one and fans are still calling for his head. Is anyone in the fan base  ever going to be happy?  Last time UND wasn’t at the Frozen Faceoff,  I had a media member from a newspaper ask me if the fans really wanted Berry fired. This is worse than the Montreal Canadian fan base. 

[Kevin G]

Nothing-but-a-gut-feeling #1: After this season, Berry has two more seasons to show whether or not he can build and lead a consistent winner. Two.

Nothing-but-a-gut-feeling #2: Berry's best role might be as a head coach's #1 assistant. (As an aside, it's been my experience that that guy--a dependable right-hand man to the head guy--is harder to find than a quality leader.)

Nothing-but-a-gut-feeling #3: Berry has recruited too many players whose personalities are too similar: high character (good) but relatively quiet (not necessarily good). Or, to put it another way, Berry has failed to recruit enough guys who can stand up in the locker room, command the respect of teammates, and yell some not-so-nice things when necessary.

 

[Dustin]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Not if you're looking to make a generational leap (from legacy-Gino to legacy-Blais). 

I'd like to see that happen.

[Blackheart]

3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

You've exposed my question: Is Berry better as a top assistant (recruiter) than head coach. 

In 2016, with the CBS, the Heavy, and that six pack at D, I believe we could've had @Blackheart, @Oxbow6, and @Wilburbehind the bench and won. Or anyone (aside from Dave Hakstol who just had the Frozen Four curse). 

I still have some eligibility left.

[tnt]

6 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

I'm saying get this season over, get the super seniors out the door, let the guys who don't want to be here portal away, retain the guys who are part of the solution, bring in the incoming pipeline, and clean the slate. 

I really don’t think we have to reinvent the wheel.  I think the team overachieved last year with all of the new guys, and I think they thought everything would be handed to them. We all expressed concern that we don’t pull a St. Cloud with everyone coming back, so that is the coaches job to instill that in his players.  If they get back to needing to prove something and do the off-season work to make that happen, there can be a quick turnaround.  This is not something that should be happening frequently.  I recall they had a nice system in place under Hakstol where they would always have options of people to bring in, depending on development and experience, but that seems to be a bit broken with Covid and the portal.  They need to get back to that system and figure out a good mix, especially at goaltending.  Let’s get this fixed.

[tnt]

7 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

This is what I'm talking about in the idea of lack of perspective that I talked about in the other thread. We're not all on the same page of what our standard should be. National Championships are the ultimate goal, but it's ignoring the other things. Winning league title shows consistency and the ability to get the team into positions to make runs at winning the big prize.

This season has been a major disappointment with the expectations we all had coming into the year. To me, this whole season reeks of the snowball effect. Our team started to struggle early on causing our players to doubt themselves and overplay the game (consistently bad turnovers, blowing leads, missing assignments), leading to more mistakes and losses, and we haven't been able to right the ship. This season hasn't reflected others, IMO. Unlike the others when we missed the playoffs the two times Bubbs was head coach, this season doesn't reflect a lack of talent, but an inability to overcome challenges. If this continues next year, I'd be concerned about it more. 

I've asked that "who's next" question several times without a response from anyone who's upset about Bubbs and staff. What would that do to guys currently in our pipeline that we're excited about - Perron, Strathmann, Livanavage, Emerson, McInnis, etc.? How about guys like Blake, McLaughlin, Strinden, etc.? Without these questions answered in how they'd make an immediate change, it makes no sense to move on this.

Would we hire Jax? What would that change? How about Karl? I think Karl could be a change of style, but is it a massive change? Who should we be considering? I have yet to hear a constructive discussion about any of this. 

Don’t forget about Mac Swanson, who said the coaching staff was the reason he chose UND.  We do need to get back to being a hard forechecking team that can still take care of their own end.  To be frank, teams like Western always seem to be hard on the forecheck and buzzing in the offensive zone.  Maybe the best defense for us is to be constantly buzzing in the offensive zone, without that extra turnover at the blue line that is killing us with odd man rushes going the other way.

[sioux24/7]

5 hours ago, Goon said:

Must be a slow day at the Credit Union?  
 

No one is happy with the status quo but let’s be reasonable. We had fans that want to fire Hakstol because he hadn’t NCAA title. Last time I checked, Hak was coaching in the NHL. 

Then, we have coach that wins one and fans are still calling for his head. Is anyone in the fan base  ever going to be happy?  Last time UND wasn’t at the Frozen Faceoff,  I had a media member from a newspaper ask me if the fans really wanted Berry fired. This is worse than the Montreal Canadian fan base. 

I can only pray an NHL team snipes Berry from us. 

[Big A HG]

Brad has been given a lot of leeway thanks to that title.  Winning NCHC titles is a good feat, but isn't what we play for.  It's also unrealistic to expect National Championships regularly as there is too much puck luck in a one-and-done format.  Bad teams don't typically luck their way to a title, but great teams are often eliminated prematurely thanks to a bad bounce or two...as us UND fans are very well aware.  However, Frozen Four appearances shouldn't be rare for a team like UND.  I don't think it's unreasonable to start applying some public pressure considering where our program is at.  There are a number of different factors that play into good and bad seasons, but they all mainly point back to the head coach, especially at a program with small coaching staffs like NCAA hockey.  This isn't Brad's first bad year.  An off season among many good or great seasons isn't usually something to stress over, but NCAA wins are what excite the fanbase.  NCHC titles don't.  Just look at the crowds.  People can blame covid, or blame start times, or blame whatever, but most sports, pro or otherwise, are back to pre-covid normalcy.  The Ralph is not.  It's not empty, but it's not hard to find seats and it's fairly obvious the downward trend in attendance is starting to gain steam.  Is the program heading in the right direction?  I'm not sure there's anything to say that it is.

Just ask yourself this question?  What season is the anomaly?

[fightingsioux4life]

29 minutes ago, Big A HG said:

It's also unrealistic to expect National Championships regularly as there is too much puck luck in a one-and-done format.

Then how did Denver and Duluth each win two NCAA titles since our last one? Other programs win multiple titles in a short period of time, but it isn't "realistic" for us? That makes no sense whatsoever. I don't hear other programs blame the tournament format for lack of tournament success like our fan base does.

That being said, I agree with the rest of your post 100%. If 2023-24 is similar to this season, it may be time to talk buy-out.

[Big A HG]

5 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Then how did Denver and Duluth each win two NCAA titles since our last one? Other programs win multiple titles in a short period of time, but it isn't "realistic" for us? That makes no sense whatsoever. Either we are a blue blood program or we are not. I don't hear other programs blame the tournament format for lack of tournament success like our fan base does.

That being said, I agree with the rest of your post 100%. If 2023-24 is similar to this season, it may be time to talk buy-out.

 

I'm not saying it's unrealistic to accomplish (especially for UND), I said it's unrealistic to expect it....like, expecting Berry's tenure to hinge upon winning two titles over five year spans for the rest of his career.  The problem is we can't even win a regional anymore much less an entire NCAA tournament.  Heck, unless a miracle happens in postseason NCHC play, we're going to miss our third tournament of our last six.  A 50% participation rate.  

[fightingsioux4life]

Just now, Big A HG said:

I'm not saying it's unrealistic to accomplish (especially for UND), I said it's unrealistic to expect it....like, expecting Berry's tenure to hinge upon winning two titles over five year spans for the rest of his career.  The problem is we can't even win a regional anymore much less an entire NCAA tournament.  Heck, unless a miracle happens in postseason NCHC play, we're going to miss our third tournament of our last six.  A 50% participation rate.  

Agreed.

[stoneySIOUX]

18 hours ago, gfhockey said:

Don’t question goon and stoney

 

they are ok with status quo

 

 

LOL DEFINITELY what I said. Still didn't answer my #simplequestion on if you liked our current pipeline.

[The Sicatoka]

12 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Then how did Denver and Duluth each win two NCAA titles since our last one?

Let's be fair.

I had UND as a "coin flip" (UND or Cornell) for the title in 2020 before the shutdown.
That group was robbed (and then again in 2021 in a MichiganCovid/50T fiasco). 

[Sweethockey]

Anybody have the stat on how often the Host school doesn't play in their Regional?

[fightingsioux4life]

9 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Let's be fair.

I had UND as a "coin flip" (UND or Cornell) for the title in 2020 before the shutdown.
That group was robbed (and then again in 2021 in a MichiganCovid/50T fiasco). 

I don't disagree with you on the Covid year. But that doesn't explain away the point I made.

[The Sicatoka]

7 minutes ago, Sweethockey said:

Anybody have the stat on how often the Host school doesn't play in their Regional?

It's more common that we realize. 

Last year 3/4 of the hosts didn't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NCAA_Division_I_men's_ice_hockey_tournament 

[siouxweet]

12 hours ago, Big A HG said:

 

I'm not saying it's unrealistic to accomplish (especially for UND), I said it's unrealistic to expect it....like, expecting Berry's tenure to hinge upon winning two titles over five year spans for the rest of his career.  The problem is we can't even win a regional anymore much less an entire NCAA tournament.  Heck, unless a miracle happens in postseason NCHC play, we're going to miss our third tournament of our last six.  A 50% participation rate.  

Outside of NDSU football I don't know of a program that wins it every year and even they didn't this year.

[siouxweet]

12 minutes ago, Sweethockey said:

Anybody have the stat on how often the Host school doesn't play in their Regional?

Probably pretty high as you get a lot of small schools out east that host and don't make it.

[iluvdebbies]

Just now, siouxweet said:

Outside of NDSU football I don't know of a program that wins it every year and even they didn't this year.

No....but you gotta be in it, to win it.

[siouxweet]

5 minutes ago, iluvdebbies said:

No....but you gotta be in it, to win it.

Absolutely.  My expectations are to be in the tournament every year, make frozen fours on a somewhat regular basis and bring home a title every once in a while.  It has been 7 years since UND last was in a FF.

[Big A HG]

What's more exciting to the fanbase...Frozen Fours or Conference Championships? 

HAKSTOL (11 seasons):  7 Frozen Fours (63.6%) --- 3 Reg. Season Conference Championships (27.2%) --- 4 Conference Tournament Championships (36.4%)

BERRY (8th season):  1 Frozen Four (12.5%) --- 4 Reg. Season Conference Championships (50.0%) --- 1 Conference Tournament Championship (currently 7 tries, 14.3%)

 

Hakstol clearly put more precedent on being good late in the year and built toward that.  He worked the guys hard, maybe to their detriment in the first half of the season, but as the team built stamina and the workload was adjusted, Hak's teams came to play in the second half.  How he never won a title is beyond me, but again, in one-and-done, anything can happen.  Berry seems to strive for consistency, start-to-finish, but doesn't build towards that post-season run.  Sandy and Carle both seem committed towards post-season play...you can hear it in their talking points.  The 2019-20 UND team was very good, but nowhere near 2016 good...and the 2016 team almost didn't even make the title game.  To say there was any guarantee of that team was winning multiple NCAA games, much less another title is a stretch.  Only two of those athletes are still on an NHL roster as I write this, Pinto and Cole Smith...then compare to the NHL talent on the 2016 team.  The 2019-20 team was one of the few under Berry that played above their talent level.