Time to Boo Berry?

[SIOUXELEVENS]

2 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Did Berry's team win in 2016 ... or did Hakstol's team with Berry behind the bench? 

Things that make you go hmmmmm. 

[AJS]

13 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

This is what I'm talking about in the idea of lack of perspective that I talked about in the other thread. We're not all on the same page of what our standard should be. National Championships are the ultimate goal, but it's ignoring the other things. Winning league title shows consistency and the ability to get the team into positions to make runs at winning the big prize.

This season has been a major disappointment with the expectations we all had coming into the year. To me, this whole season reeks of the snowball effect. Our team started to struggle early on causing our players to doubt themselves and overplay the game (consistently bad turnovers, blowing leads, missing assignments), leading to more mistakes and losses, and we haven't been able to right the ship. This season hasn't reflected others, IMO. Unlike the others when we missed the playoffs the two times Bubbs was head coach, this season doesn't reflect a lack of talent, but an inability to overcome challenges. If this continues next year, I'd be concerned about it more. 

I've asked that "who's next" question several times without a response from anyone who's upset about Bubbs and staff. What would that do to guys currently in our pipeline that we're excited about - Perron, Strathmann, Livanavage, Emerson, McInnis, etc.? How about guys like Blake, McLaughlin, Strinden, etc.? Without these questions answered in how they'd make an immediate change, it makes no sense to move on this.

Would we hire Jax? What would that change? How about Karl? I think Karl could be a change of style, but is it a massive change? Who should we be considering? I have yet to hear a constructive discussion about any of this. 

I don't disagree with anything you said in the first two paragraphs. I do think the important distinction that you do point out is this year has been different than the two previous where they missed the playoffs. 

Where we might disagree, is I think Berry is an average coach. With UND's advantages, missing the playoffs (regardless of the reasons) 3 times in 7 years is concerning. You won't hear me ever talk negatively about recruiting (outside of the frustration with the head-to-head with Minnesota), because I think that's still been fine. Given UND's advantages, you should be able to recruit well. As to who I think would do better. To me the clear-cut favorite would be Brett Larson. What he's done at St. Cloud, given his resources has been incredible. Staffs in the NCHC that are better in my opinion, but probably wouldn't be interested. Denver clearly. Duluth maybe would be interested. How about Western? To me it really comes down to, I think Berry does less with more (UND advantages) and other programs do more with less.

Why I'd be so high on Brett Larson. Call it the Motzko effect. Someone who had so much success at St. Cloud, but just look at what happens when you give him resources. 

 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 minute ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

We all know Berry is not going anywhere but has to at least make some changes to his coaching cause it’s not working and the last six years proves that, yes he has league titles but what does that do for you , no auto bid for regular season on playoffs and maybe if that’s what they focus on they don’t have much left for the NCAA tourney. 

Certainly ok with that. A coach has to figure it out. First things first -- identify the real reasons this season went the way it did and adjust. I don't think the past six years as a whole indicates a lack of ability to coach, but that's my opinion. Winning league titles is putting us in the position to win in the most important parts of the season. We've not hit our biggest goal since 2016. What do we have to do to make that step again? They need to figure that out.

[The Sicatoka]

32 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Would we hire Jax? What would that change? How about Karl? I think Karl could be a change of style, but is it a massive change? Who should we be considering? I have yet to hear a constructive discussion about any of this. 

Berry and Jackson are Gino disciples and that is a slow game style that no longer works against speed systems like DU and WMU. 

Karl would bring an update style and speed (Blais disciple, worked in TBL system) to the game.
And the pipeline has guys he could bring in as assistants: Smaby, St Clair, Chyzyk 

Bottom line: We need to drop a decade plus from the mindset of the HC in hockey (and football for that matter) and get to a modern game style.

[stoneySIOUX]

19 minutes ago, AJS said:

I don't disagree with anything you said in the first two paragraphs. I do think the important distinction that you do point out is this year has been different than the two previous where they missed the playoffs. 

Where we might disagree, is I think Berry is an average coach. With UND's advantages, missing the playoffs (regardless of the reasons) 3 times in 7 years is concerning. You won't hear me ever talk negatively about recruiting (outside of the frustration with the head-to-head with Minnesota), because I think that's still been fine. Given UND's advantages, you should be able to recruit well. As to who I think would do better. To me the clear-cut favorite would be Brett Larson. What he's done at St. Cloud, given his resources has been incredible. Staffs in the NCHC that are better in my opinion, but probably wouldn't be interested. Denver clearly. Duluth maybe would be interested. How about Western? To me it really comes down to, I think Berry does less with more (UND advantages) and other programs do more with less.

Why I'd be so high on Brett Larson. Call it the Motzko effect. Someone who had so much success at St. Cloud, but just look at what happens when you give him resources. 

 

Thanks for an ACTUAL OPTION haha. He's been impressive. St. Cloud should be a trash program because frankly, it's a trash city, IMO, with no real legitimately consistent history of putting players into the NHL, without great facilities, and he's done incredibly well, along with Motz, of building that program. But they have yet to take that step into a truly elite program. Could he at UND? I could see it.

Without a tremendous idea of what it takes to be a good NCAA coach, I am fine with the your opinion of him being average. I can't really tell you that I disagree because I don't know what it means to be a good or the best coach. My argument is only based of consistency. Bubbs has his teams, with the exception of this season, at the very least, in contention every year. This one has been a massive disappointment and they wouldn't argue against that, IMO. 

[The Sicatoka]

4 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

First things first -- identify the real reasons this season went the way it did and adjust. 

Six games left in the regular season is awfully late to still be trying to figure it out and adjust. 

Side Note: I believe there is something horribly amiss in the room. That leadership (not coaching, leadership) in the room hasn't fixed it tells me where in the room the problem is. I have no proof, just observations and a gut feeling. An off-season and a major roster reset might not be all bad. 

[stoneySIOUX]

3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Six games left in the regular season is awfully late to still be trying to figure it out and adjust. 

Side Note: I believe there is something horribly amiss in the room. That leadership (not coaching, leadership) in the room hasn't fixed it tells me where in the room the problem is. I have no proof, just observations and a gut feeling. An off-season and a major roster reset might not be all bad. 

I was referring to making changes for next season, sorry. 

At risk of the pipeline? Current players? Without an identified replacement (Karl G and Brett Larson are fantastic options), I am not sure.

[The Sicatoka]

2 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I was referring to making changes for next season, sorry. 

At risk of the pipeline? Current players? Without an identified replacement (Karl G and Brett Larson are fantastic options), I am not sure.

I'm saying get this season over, get the super seniors out the door, let the guys who don't want to be here portal away, retain the guys who are part of the solution, bring in the incoming pipeline, and clean the slate. 

[stoneySIOUX]

6 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

I'm saying get this season over, get the super seniors out the door, let the guys who don't want to be here portal away, retain the guys who are part of the solution, bring in the incoming pipeline, and clean the slate. 

Ah, so not necessarily a coaching change, correct? If I missed what you were saying, my bad. 

I agree with all of that, outside of a for sure change in coaching staff. But, would definitely welcome a change in game style to adapt to players like McLaughlin, Blake, Perron, (smaller, but immensely skilled) etc. 

And again, we HAVE to identify the players in the portal that can contribute immediately without hampering our pipeline recruits' development.

[stoneySIOUX]

29 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Did Berry's team win in 2016 ... or did Hakstol's team with Berry behind the bench? 

I know, without a doubt, that Berry was the primary recruiter in building the 2016 team. Hak absolutely sealed the deal in certain situations, but Bubbs was the primary person pounding the recruiting pavement. 

[The Sicatoka]

5 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Ah, so not a coaching change, correct? If I missed what you were saying, my bad. 

Talk to me about coaching change in 12 months. The axe will be sharp, or put away, by then. 

I would stay away from the portal right now (except for goaltending, there is no other choice).
Yes, if that means five or six freshmen defensemen, so be it. 
Berry brings in his recruits to his team and we see what happens. 

[Goon]

1 hour ago, siouxweet said:

Since 2016 3 league titles 0 NCAA titles and soon to be 3 non-playoff appearances. 

Duluth in that same span 0 league and 2 NCAA and hasn't missed a tournament.

Denver 2 league titles, 2 NCAA and has missed 1 tournament.

It's the green banners that really matter and this will be the third time in his tenure they won't even get to play for one.  

What are you suggesting? The University fire Brad Berry who has a .643 winning percentage? He has won four regular season titles, in the toughest conference in college hockey. He did win one more NCAA title than his predecessor.  First, he has three more years on his contract. Who's stepping up on the expensive buyout? Maybe someone from the Good Ole Boys can afford to write a big check. Who's going to replace him? Do hire a new coach from outside the UND family, or someone inside the family? That's a big question right there? Who do we hire to replace him? Can you imagine an athletic director firing a coach with his record. Is anyone happy with this season? No not at all. It's been tough to stomach. It's been an F'N dumpster fire. However, I am not going to let it ruin the rest of my year or ruminate on it all offseason. The players know this is not UND hockey. Like @stoneySIOUX mentioned could lose a lot of those in coming high-end recruits, if our AD was as jumpy as some our fans and just fired Berry. I see people comparing Berry to Scott Sandelin, his record is 440-363-95 .542 winning percentage his team have missed the NCAA playoff 11 times in his 23-year stint. He didn't win his first NCAA title till his 11th season behind the bench. Based on those standards were seeing applied to coach Berry, Scott would've been fired a long time before he won an NCAA championship. In the 11 seasons leading up to his team winning an NCAA championship, Sandelin had 164-187-46 (.471) record. He would've been run out of town on a rail. 

 

[The Sicatoka]

2 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I know, without a doubt, that Berry was the primary recruiter in building the 2016 team. Hak absolutely sealed the deal in certain situations, but Bubbs was the primary person pounding the recruiting pavement. 

You've exposed my question: Is Berry better as a top assistant (recruiter) than head coach. 

In 2016, with the CBS, the Heavy, and that six pack at D, I believe we could've had @Blackheart, @Oxbow6, and @Wilburbehind the bench and won. Or anyone (aside from Dave Hakstol who just had the Frozen Four curse). 

[stoneySIOUX]

10 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Talk to me about coaching change in 12 months. The axe will be sharp, or put away, by then. 

I would stay away from the portal right now (except for goaltending, there is no other choice).
Yes, if that means five or six freshmen defensemen, so be it. 
Berry brings in his recruits to his team and we see what happens. 

I think we have to have at least one portal defenseman, but to fit our need. Stay-at-home, experienced. Preferably RHD. I want a kid like Sidorski for one or two seasons.

Completely fine with the rest being freshies. 

[stoneySIOUX]

3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

You've exposed my question: Is Berry better as a top assistant (recruiter) than head coach. 

In 2016, with the CBS, the Heavy, and that six pack at D, I believe we could've had @Blackheart, @Oxbow6, and @Wilburbehind the bench and won. Or anyone (aside from Dave Hakstol who just had the Frozen Four curse). 

I KNEW you were playing the game with me, my friend 

Whoa, whoa, whoa... as I've talked about.... I need REALISTIC options for a head coach 

Incredibly fair point. I'm still not sold on the idea of a complete reset and a coaching change. It feels reactive to this season. Like you said, if in 12 months we haven't seen improvement on the disaster of this season, I'd likely be in that boat of willing to explore a move. 

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, Goon said:

Can you imagine an athletic director firing a coach with his record. 

Don't have to imagine. 
Nebraska football fired Bo Pelini (67-27, 0.723). He was 9-3 his last season. 

[stoneySIOUX]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Don't have to imagine. 
Nebraska football fired Bo Pelini (67-27, 0.723). He was 9-3 his last season. 

That hasn't worked out well LOL.

[Goon]

12 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Don't have to imagine. 
Nebraska football fired Bo Pelini (67-27, 0.723). He was 9-3 his last season. 

And look what they've done since. 

[Wilbur]

13 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

You've exposed my question: Is Berry better as a top assistant (recruiter) than head coach. 

In 2016, with the CBS, the Heavy, and that six pack at D, I believe we could've had @Blackheart, @Oxbow6, and @Wilburbehind the bench and won. Or anyone (aside from Dave Hakstol who just had the Frozen Four curse). 

Poolman...LaDue....Stecher....Ausmus....Wolanan....Thompson.

I probably could have coached and played goalie.  

[Siouxperfan7]

If UND misses the tournamnet again this year, it will only be the 4th time in the last 27 season that they haven't made the NCAA tournament.  And 3 of those would have been in the last 7 years under Berry.  Now, on the other hand, the other 4 years under Berry's tenure, they won the league 4 times and won a National Champiionship.  So I guess the question is can this fanbase take the ups and the downs?  

That all being said, I think we all as a fanbase need to maybe just pump the breaks just s second.  UND has won the last 3 Penrose Cups and were robbed of the 2020 season where they were a likely favorite to win it, and were a 5OT loss away from going back to the Frozen Four just 2 years ago.  No I know that being fans of this program, we are all used to seeing this team in the Tournament, and missing it this year would suck.  But before we turn up the heat on Berry's seat, let's let next season playout and see whow this team bounces back.  This year sucked.  But the last 3 prior were pretty good.  

[SIOUXELEVENS]

34 minutes ago, Goon said:

What are you suggesting? The University fire Brad Berry who has a .643 winning percentage? He has won four regular season titles, in the toughest conference in college hockey. He did win one more NCAA title than his predecessor.  First, he has three more years on his contract. Who's stepping up on the expensive buyout? Maybe someone from the Good Ole Boys can afford to write a big check. Who's going to replace him? Do hire a new coach from outside the UND family, or someone inside the family? That's a big question right there? Who do we hire to replace him? Can you imagine an athletic director firing a coach with his record. Is anyone happy with this season? No not at all. It's been tough to stomach. It's been an F'N dumpster fire. However, I am not going to let it ruin the rest of my year or ruminate on it all offseason. The players know this is not UND hockey. Like @stoneySIOUX mentioned could lose a lot of those in coming high-end recruits, if our AD was as jumpy as some our fans and just fired Berry. I see people comparing Berry to Scott Sandelin, his record is 440-363-95 .542 winning percentage his team have missed the NCAA playoff 11 times in his 23-year stint. He didn't win his first NCAA title till his 11th season behind the bench. Based on those standards were seeing applied to coach Berry, Scott would've been fired a long time before he won an NCAA championship. In the 11 seasons leading up to his team winning an NCAA championship, Sandelin had 164-187-46 (.471) record. He would've been run out of town on a rail. 

 

So who should we blame for lack of discipline, poor team defense , lack of conditioning , heavy is the head who wears the crown. I know Berry is not going anywhere but needs to figure this out and make some changes. 

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, siouxweet said:

Since 2016 3 league titles 0 NCAA titles and soon to be 3 non playoff appearances. 

Duluth in that same span 0 league and 2 NCAA and hasn't missed a tournament.

Denver 2 league titles, 2 NCAA and has missed 1 tournament.

It's the green banners that really matter and this will be the third time in his tenure they won't even get to play for one.  

A harsh truth, but a truth nonetheless. Nobody remembers teams that win a bunch of regular season games, but choke in the big moments in March and April.

I am not saying it is right or healthy. I am saying it is what it is.

Denver and Duluth have each won two NCAA titles since we last won one (UMass had the other one). If it was "unrealistic" to win NCAA titles, our conference rivals would not have been able to achieve something like that.

All of this has very real consequences for recruiting. So does the dumpster fire that is this season. If the 2023-24 season is more of the same, it will put us on a path to the same place we were in the early 1990's. I was there and it was ugly. Look at what has happened to Wisconsin. It can happen to us; don't think it can't.

[The Sicatoka]

What gets me is that the team hasn't turned itself around. 

We retained a captain. We should have leadership in the room.
We have an experienced coaching staff. They should know which levers to throw. 

We've had a public distraction (trademark) that was quickly whisked away.
We found out Berry's mom was ill and passed over the break. (Things like that normally pull teams together.) 

Yet the same lapses (play, penalties) show up time and again. 

This is where my belief that there's something fundamentally wrong in the room comes from. 
And apparently it can't be fixed until this debacle is over. 

Or, ... someone new needs to man up in the room and clear whatever is in the air. And fast. 

[petey23]

36 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Don't have to imagine. 
Nebraska football fired Bo Pelini (67-27, 0.723). He was 9-3 his last season. 

True. But he was also a prick to staff, alumni, and media.

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

Karl

I've thought for a while that he should be the next HC, but wouldn't Jackson be the heir apparent?