North Dakota Roughriders?

[Siouxperfan7]

I didn't know where to post (or if I should post this), but in light of this thread, I found it appropriate. Sorry for the book, but enclosed is an email I sent to Karl Goehring (who I am told by UND PR is gateway to the committee). I never received response or any indication that he had a chance to read it (sent yesterday so possibly not enough, and I imagine his inbox is flooded of late), but the nickname is something I care about, whether that be a merit or demerit to my personal state/character. In light of recent events I did not want to let the proceedings go by without saying my peace, into which I put a significant amount of thought and tried to comprehensive in respect for any readers. Once again, I sorry for the length, but I felt brevity was not of higher priority to completeness of thought in light of this matter. Jim, let me know if I am spamming your website too much with this post.

 

The Case for Rough Riders

 

To the Nickname Committee and UND Stateholders,

 

I urge you to push Rough Riders forward as you continue the important assignment in which you have been tasked. To all UND stakeholders, allow me to present the case for Rough Riders to be the symbol of our university. If we view the inclusive process of the first nickname task force to be representative of the collective conscious of UND stakeholders, I think the criterion set out by that task force is a good format off of which to operate. The characteristics determined by those efforts are the frame in which I will present my rationale.

 

Representative of the State: There are many real and symbolic ties to the Rough Riders and the great state of North Dakota. The last surviving member of the group, Jesse Langdon, was a North Dakotan. The state flag of North Dakota is mimicked off of regimental flags carried by infantry units and the Rough Riders in the Spanish American war (and the Philippine Insurrection). The state goes by the unofficial slogan of “The Roughrider State”, and our state’s highest civilian honor is the Theodore Roosevelt Rough Rider award. Finally and perhaps most significantly, North Dakota shares a special connection with the leader of the Rough Riders, Colonel Roosevelt. North Dakotan natives are well versed that Roosevelt claimed that he would not have been President without his time here. As President, he said of North Dakota, “Here, the great romance of my life began”.  He was an active citizen during his time in Dakota Territory, as he was chairman of the Stockmen’s Association and a Billings County Deputy Sheriff. He gave “his first great national speech” at the first ever Independence Day celebration in Dickinson where he spoke very strongly of the merits of ‘the great state of Dakota’. Before he left his cattle business, there was much rumor that he would be the first senator when North Dakota was granted statehood. However brief his time here was the connection with Colonel Roosevelt and North Dakota is real and significant. In the highest office in the land, the Colonel was our state’s biggest advocate. I think it’s fitting to reciprocate those honors.

 

Pride, Strength, Fierceness, and Passion: The name Rough Riders epitomizes these qualities. They showed ferocity in charging across open ground to an uphill fortified enemy position. Their strength allowed them to take Kettle Hill and siege Santiago.  The passion of the Rough Riders is evident as the Rough Riders were a volunteer regiment. The pride of the Rough Riders lasted throughout their lifetime as they held annual reunions.

 

Sense of community: The Rough Riders were a collection of many elements of American society at the time: cowboys, prospectors, hunters, gamblers, Native Americans, Ivy League athletes, police officers, and veterans. They came together across their many differences to achieve great victory and help thrust their country into a world power. This coming together of different backgrounds is a goal of American communities.

 

Honor the past/Look to the future: This name directly honors the past, as the exploits of the Rough Riders date more than a century again. The name also looks to the future when one thinks of the state’s Theodore Roosevelt Rough Rider Award. This award is given to North Dakotans of the highest achievement reflecting credit and honor upon North Dakota and its citizens, leaving a lasting impact and legacy for those to come.

 

Uniquely Recognizable to North Dakota: It is true that other athletic teams have used the name Rough Riders; however, at the Division 1 collegiate level, Rough Riders would be unique to the University of North Dakota. I believe that the University of North Dakota using the name would be particularly recognizable as North Dakotan with the unofficial state slogan and the Rough Rider Award given by the North Dakota Governor’s office.

 

The first task force also identified other qualities deemed important such as formidable, strength/power, unique, honor, intimidation, representative, and beauty. Expanding on how Rough Riders hits the mark on these additional qualifiers would be repetitive to what was already been stated. The fact that Rough Riders hits the mark on all the standards provided by the input of multiple stakeholders across UND’s community, and in often cases exemplifies the stated criteria, leads to an objective conclusion that this the name we have set out to find. I urge those who would not have UND be the Rough Riders, due to its adoption by a Grand Forks high school, to look past this detail. If the only reservation to Rough Riders you hold is the presence of Red River High School’s nickname, and I hope you can momentarily ignore that fact and review the merits of Rough Riders without that biases and realize that the scope of the University and its proud athletic programs go beyond the circumstances of this coincidence.

 

The name Rough Riders comes through on all aspects set out by the Task Force. It demonstrably personifies many of those characteristics. Rough Riders is a name which has provided immense pride across the great State of North Dakota. It is a name that can provide great pride for that same great state’s flagship university.  

 

Eric P. Nelson, UND 2012

 

THIS THIS THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Very well stated.  Please consider writing into the opinion section of the Herald/Forum/Birmark Tribune/etc stating this information.  Hopefully the committee reads it and others as well to see that Roughriders is the only option left that wshould be considered for the new nickname.

[Cratter]

really nice job

Additionally, as has been pointed out by Cratter, besides the association with Teddy R, rough riders were men who broke wild horses or who rode untamed horses. So there is another association for the nickname as well which would fit the frontier history of North Dakota

KG was looking for a name that people could "project" their own meaning behind. He found it.

Teddy

Cavalry

Cowboys

Rodeos

Native Americans

Settlers

Nodaks

Bison Slayerz

Etc

[ericpnelson]

THIS THIS THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Very well stated.  Please consider writing into the opinion section of the Herald/Forum/Birmark Tribune/etc stating this information.  Hopefully the committee reads it and others as well to see that Roughriders is the only option left that wshould be considered for the new nickname.

Thanks, I submitted it to the Tribune and Herald, but I have concerns about an abbreviated version being released.

[Oxbow6]

Thanks, I submitted it to the Tribune and Herald, but I have concerns about an abbreviated version being released.

That's why they are journalist.....they write the story to fit their point of view.

Funny thing is it didn't use to be that way.

[petey23]

It's amazing what an utterly atrocious list of finalists will do to people.  

[petey23]

THIS THIS THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Very well stated.  Please consider writing into the opinion section of the Herald/Forum/Birmark Tribune/etc stating this information.  Hopefully the committee reads it and others as well to see that Roughriders is the only option left that wshould be considered FOR VOTE AGAINST "THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA" for the new nickname.

FYP

[Sioux>Bison]

.

[Hayduke]

The only thing I would've added is that Teddy hunted bison and Grizzly Bears. :-)

Yup...

He shot him some griz n bizin.

Go Ridas!

[Hayduke]

Thanks, I submitted it to the Tribune and Herald, but I have concerns about an abbreviated version being released.

Minot Daily News. Fargo Forum...Hell, blast it to every paper in North Dakota that has an internet submission...

[Nodak78]

Yup...

He shot him some griz n bizin.

Go Ridas!

I believe arrested some cowpokes as well.  probably shoot a couple of bobcats too.

[Godsmack]

These were my thoughts almost 5 years ago. Glad to see so many people finally seeing the light and beginning to rally around Roughriders as the top choice because it is the only name that makes sense.

I agree with you-it's a great nickname with endless possibilities for logos.

[Shawn-O]

FYP

Realism. Try it.

[Risky]

I am all in on Roughriders. It is growing on me. By far the best choice. Not even close. It would be fun to market.

[petey23]

Realism. Try it.

So there isn't going to be a vote? I would have actually been fine with that as I said from the start. form a committee and hire local consultants to pick a name, no public vote(sure, send out surveys to alum and students but that's it).....not pass the buck and turn it into a complete cluster f%$# that this has been.

Should have just had the committee formed, left out the wasted money on the consultants and brought in a few people locally with experience in the marketing business like UND alum Jason Loney of Scheels who has a little experience with Pro and College licensing and a couple key people from any of the following large regional companies whose job is to work with logos and designs like CI Apparel, S&S(Brad Ness is another alum), Lake Shirts, etc.(I left out a couple companies including mine). Narrow it down to 3 or 4 acceptable choices and have those companies go back to their marketing people and art staffs and come up with some concepts and ideas rather than pick a name and then say "welp lets see what we can come up with"

They gather the info, discuss it and announce a name and explain why they chose that name and it's over. Now they are going to end up with a name that the majority of people do not want since they dangled out the possibility of going by the current status quo of being The University of North Dakota and that is the most popular choice among the people who truly matter. Absolute transparency isn't always the best thing when you involve the general public due to the 7 out of 10 rule.

It is to be expected though when any government agency is tasked with something like this.

[UND1983]

So there isn't going to be a vote? I would have actually been fine with that as I said from the start. form a committee and hire local consultants to pick a name, no public vote(sure, send out surveys to alum and students but that's it).....not pass the buck and turn it into a complete cluster f%$# that this has been.

Should have just had the committee formed, left out the wasted money on the consultants and brought in a few people locally with experience in the marketing business like UND alum Jason Loney of Scheels who has a little experience with Pro and College licensing and a couple key people from any of the following large regional companies whose job is to work with logos and designs like CI Apparel, S&S(Brad Ness is another alum), Lake Shirts, etc.(I left out a couple companies including mine). Narrow it down to 3 or 4 acceptable choices and have those companies go back to their marketing people and art staffs and come up with some concepts and ideas rather than pick a name and then say "welp lets see what we can come up with"

They gather the info, discuss it and announce a name and explain why they chose that name and it's over. Now they are going to end up with a name that the majority of people do not want since they dangled out the possibility of going by the current status quo of being The University of North Dakota and that is the most popular choice among the people who truly matter.

People who matter? Like you or who are you talking about?

[Chewey]

It's amazing what an utterly atrocious list of finalists will do to people.  

"Atrocious" is a massive understatement.

[Chewey]

So there isn't going to be a vote? I would have actually been fine with that as I said from the start. form a committee and hire local consultants to pick a name, no public vote(sure, send out surveys to alum and students but that's it).....not pass the buck and turn it into a complete cluster f%$# that this has been.

Should have just had the committee formed, left out the wasted money on the consultants and brought in a few people locally with experience in the marketing business like UND alum Jason Loney of Scheels who has a little experience with Pro and College licensing and a couple key people from any of the following large regional companies whose job is to work with logos and designs like CI Apparel, S&S(Brad Ness is another alum), Lake Shirts, etc.(I left out a couple companies including mine). Narrow it down to 3 or 4 acceptable choices and have those companies go back to their marketing people and art staffs and come up with some concepts and ideas rather than pick a name and then say "welp lets see what we can come up with"

They gather the info, discuss it and announce a name and explain why they chose that name and it's over. Now they are going to end up with a name that the majority of people do not want since they dangled out the possibility of going by the current status quo of being The University of North Dakota and that is the most popular choice among the people who truly matter. Absolute transparency isn't always the best thing when you involve the general public due to the 7 out of 10 rule.

It is to be expected though when any government agency is tasked with something like this.

Agreed.  Include "North Dakota" in the final list and let's see what's most popular.  The committee was to gauge sentiment/input from "the stakeholders" and make determinations accordingly.  Roughriders is an option for the "sky is falling" crowd.  The final list, if the committee is truly serious about being transparent should be "North Dakota", Roughriders, Explorers/Cavalry.  Sundogs should fail simply because it's what the PC crowd wants.  It won't have a chance - hopefully - unless the vote is extended to the fall term and after certain PC profs have an opportunity to lecture everyone about how racist they'll be if they don't vote for it.   

[petey23]

People who matter? Like you or who are you talking about?

Alum, students, faculty, donars.

[BigGame]

It is unique to NCAA athletics.  UND does not play any high schools in the region.  Nor do they play in the CFL.  I would guess that can be said for just about every possible nickname,,,other than possibly Nodaks.

I guess unique to me doesn't mean just unique to the hated NCAA and ripping off the local high school is always a bonus.  I was all for moving on but I wouldn't vote for any new nicknames on the list at this point.  So in my eyes the entire process was a failure but it is just my opinion.

[Fetch]

Fighting Nodaks yeah yeah

[zonadub]

...

Roughriders is an option for the "sky is falling" crowd.

...

Roughriders (or Rough Riders) has always been my first choice after I realized Fighting Sioux was not coming back. If that qualifies as "the sky is falling crowd", maybe it's time for you to remove your head from the clouds.

If a bunch of old farts (and I am very probably older, but I might argue that I am being more pragmatic) can't give up the old name because they want to keep calling the team the Sioux, nobody is stopping you. Go ahead and shout Sioux at the end of the national anthem.

You may not like Roughriders, but I'm guessing that no nickname (pun intended) will be ok with you other than Sioux. Maybe you should realize that 25% is not really a majority (and asking only your like-minded friends doesn't qualify as one either) and put your support behind a decent nickname so that UND doesn't end up with SunDogs or Green Moths (even though it is a pretty cool looking insect) or something as unimaginative as a shortened version of the state name like Nodaks. North Dakota Nodaks? Really? Weren't you one of the posters that thought Nokotas didn't sound good? At least that is an actual breed of horses.

I do not think the sky is falling, but I do not think using North Dakota or Nodaks is the correct outcome. If anyone seems to be running around crying that the sky is falling, it's the people who are afraid that a new official nickname will mean the end of the world as you knew it to be.

end rant

[scpa0305]

Alum, students, faculty, donars.

Agree 100%. They are spending all this $ (like it grows on trees) only to potentially lift the local high school's name. I like the name but I think that is what's bugging me the most. Anyone have a total related to the spend on this project so far?

[CMSioux]

And if they wouldn't have gone through this process and just changed the name to Roughrider what would this thread be saying? I agree that using a committee to come up with a nickname is not a process that lends itself to coming up with something truly unique but then again the torch and pitchfork crowd would have been very busy if a small group appointed by Kelly would have been given the job. I still haven't heard anyone share a process that would have been better than this, one that everyone would have been happy with. We know it doesn't exist. 

[tnt]

Agree 100%. They are spending all this $ (like it grows on trees) only to potentially lift the local high school's name. I like the name but I think that is what's bugging me the most. Anyone have a total related to the spend on this project so far?

But many of the people that don't like the nickname are hoping for no nickname, in which case we will be spending that money all over again years down the road.  If it's all about the money, then where is the common sense in that? 

[scpa0305]

And if they wouldn't have gone through this process and just changed the name to Roughrider what would this thread be saying? I agree that using a committee to come up with a nickname is not a process that lends itself to coming up with something truly unique but then again the torch and pitchfork crowd would have been very busy if a small group appointed by Kelly would have been given the job. I still haven't heard anyone share a process that would have been better than this, one that everyone would have been happy with. We know it doesn't exist. 

I'm talking more about the consultants....the people who typically cost big bucks with little results.  I work in the banking industry and we have to use consultants all the time.  They are hit or miss.  They come in preaching the world but when you look back at their body of work it is usually average at best.