UND versus NDSU - 1st DIV I Conference Game 2020 Rona moved to 2021 @ Manure Pit - RIVALRY?

[F'n Hawks]

Really worried about NT for the next couple of weeks. With injuries we have even less size then we already did. YSU rushed for 303 yards last week and their running back has been over 100 yards the past 3 games. Our lack of size and depth on the d-line might finally catch up to us.

[Midwestern Hawk]

20 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

On a positive note that was by far the best OL performance we’ve had at the Fargo Loaf in our last three trips. Without the threat of a real passing game we still had some decent rushes and Tommy wasn’t running for his life. That’s something we can build on.

Agree.  Our DL was handled in 2nd half especially, but our OL was pretty good.  Should have leaned on it more and run Otis.

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

seemed like he went into the Bubba shell early in the game

At one point early on in the Midco broadcast they showed Danny upstairs with his hands on his head before a 3rd or 4th down and I was thinking he was very nervous.

[Sioux94]

47 minutes ago, Dustin said:

At one point early on in the Midco broadcast they showed Danny upstairs with his hands on his head before a 3rd or 4th down and I was thinking he was very nervous.

Might have been that first 4th down.  When I saw how NDSU was jammed in at line of scrimmage and I saw our formation, was pretty obvious it was going to be an Otis run.  I said at the time in the game thread I would have called a timeout, as others have said as well.  No wonder why Danny had his hands up since he knew we were running right up the gut on that.  

Yesterday sucked.  Never thought we were going to go undefeated in the conference even after our 4-0 start though.  Time to make some adjustments and get these next three.  I think SDSU should be the #1 team.  Guess we'll find out when they play NDSU.  If Morrison is out, hopefully Orlando or Beach are healthy and can play?  

Sure hope Brock is able to play soon.

[Fry Bread]

2 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Nice of you to come back from suicide watch. You ok?

Good one. Made me chuckle 

[Nodak78]

55 minutes ago, Sioux94 said:

Might have been that first 4th down.  When I saw how NDSU was jammed in at line of scrimmage and I saw our formation, was pretty obvious it was going to be an Otis run.  I said at the time in the game thread I would have called a timeout, as others have said as well.  No wonder why Danny had his hands up since he knew we were running right up the gut on that.  

Yesterday sucked.  Never thought we were going to go undefeated in the conference even after our 4-0 start though.  Time to make some adjustments and get these next three.  I think SDSU should be the #1 team.  Guess we'll find out when they play NDSU.  If Morrison is out, hopefully Orlando or Beach are healthy and can play?  

Sure hope Brock is able to play soon.

I think it was posted sometime back that Orlando wouldn't be ready until fall.  Hopefully Beach can play.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

Can't let this get us down, need the team to focus and get positive play results in the next game. 
Coaches have a huge week ahead to right the ship.

[F'n Hawks]

9 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Can't let this get us down, need the team to focus and get positive play results in the next game. 
Coaches have a huge week ahead to right the ship.

Yep! YSU has played pretty well the past couple of weeks and the boys need to be ready to go. 

[nodakvindy]

Will learn a lot about the team and coaching staff next Saturday. If they shake yesterday off can still make a lot of noise, definitely a character week.

[FSSD]

6 hours ago, NEBison said:

UND is much better than the past. The score yesterday was similar to previous games but I was nervous up until NDSU's first score of the 2nd half. No idea why UND didn't run that kid more. He's a stud. The difference still appears to be in the trenches but that is by far the best NDSU's oline has played all year. 

On the fake punt no call. I heard there can't be PI on the gunner. Didn't know that before yesterday but would make sense.

 

I have never heard that rule..  I would assume that a gunner is a receiver when the ball is in the air.  Not sure that makes sense to me.

[geaux_sioux]

32 minutes ago, FSSD said:

I have never heard that rule..  I would assume that a gunner is a receiver when the ball is in the air.  Not sure that makes sense to me.

I’ve thought about this a bit today. Imagine a team would run a fake punt over and over again where they just chuck it up to the gunner knowing they will be interfered with likely every single time because of the constant battling gunners do. You could almost guarantee yourself a PI penalty every time because of the nature of that position. 

[CMSioux]

7 hours ago, NEBison said:

UND is much better than the past. The score yesterday was similar to previous games but I was nervous up until NDSU's first score of the 2nd half. No idea why UND didn't run that kid more. He's a stud. The difference still appears to be in the trenches but that is by far the best NDSU's oline has played all year. 

On the fake punt no call. I heard there can't be PI on the gunner. Didn't know that before yesterday but would make sense.

 

So that means the D can just blast anyone down field basically negating any kind of downfield pass from punt formation?

[Bison06]

39 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

So that means the D can just blast anyone down field basically negating any kind of downfield pass from punt formation?

That’s correct. On a punt return there is no such thing as defensive PI. 
 

As a previous poster said, you could run a fake punt every time and just throw it up and get a PI call because the defender is blocking the gunner all the way down the field. 
 

Special teams plays routinely have special rules. eg. can’t hit the long snapper when his head is down or line up directly over him. 

[ND-fan]

The games over and we need to move on but were going to need to look at what SU did to us today and better believe other schools are going to follow that game plan. Like the announcers said the 3/4 defense is vulnerable to tight ends and if you look they ran behind these tight ends they had superior numbers and size at point of attack in their running game. I was surprised we didn't have something to counter this and if they did it surely didn't work. Offensively i think we would have been fine if we could played on even basis but we fell behind like we did we had to leave what was successful for us. We showed we could run the football on them but what there offense did to our defense it left our offense with little time to run our sustained drives moving us into passing offense and becoming one dimensional making it much easier to defend. Side bar the missing of extra point took momentum away from us it was phycological downer after scoring the touchdown and going for it on the punt i think pass interference could have been called on it and probably would have been if it was at the  Alerus the advantages of playing on the home field. If the latter had been called it would have been much closer game in the end. Also we are under sized at the nose tackle position to play a 3/4 defense something they need to work on in the recruiting process and maybe transfer for the fall season would be nice addition to the team.

[jdub27]

That can still be called pass interference however it does become even more of a judgement call than normal. Pretty decent argument that the throw was not "high and deep" nor did it simulate a scrimmage kick. 

"When there is contact by a Team B player that otherwise would be pass interference during a down in which a Team A potential kicker, from a scrimmage kick formation, simulates a scrimmage kick by throwing the ball high and deep." 

 

[bincitysioux]

I was at the game, UND did not get "out-coached".

The game was lost because NDSU's offensive line is much stronger than our defensive line.  That is it, that is why, there is no other reason.  That was the only difference, and it was glaring.  Our defensive front wasn't enough.  That's it, case closed.  

The officiating was brutal.   But had the refs made the right calls (specifically on PI calls), that would not have stopped the NDSU O-Lline and Luepke from running roughshod over us.  The incompetent MVFC refs were a factor in this game to be sure.  But we still would have lost regardless. NDSU is better in the trenches and that is where it counted on Saturday....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[geaux_sioux]

34 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

That can still be called pass interference however it does become even more of a judgement call than normal. Pretty decent argument that the throw was not "high and deep" nor did it stimulate a scrimmage kick. 

"When there is contact by a Team B player that otherwise would be pass interference during a down in which a Team A potential kicker, from a scrimmage kick formation, simulates a scrimmage kick by throwing the ball high and deep." 

 

High and deep is the key. In my mind, if you’re gonna throw to a gunner, have him run a crossing route so that part of the rule can’t apply.

[nd1sufan]

On 3/20/2021 at 6:37 PM, Dustin said:

Thoughts:

So, do we just put so much pressure on ourselves each time we play the Bison with "this could be our chance"? 

I couldn't believe the line play today.  Didn't think we'd get owned like that.

It will be nice to play them at home when they don't feel like they're doing us a favor by letting us come in the building.

 

 

I think this is the year to get the Bison. Maybe if you get them at home in the playoffs. Next year when they play in the Alerus, you will be facing a much better NDSU team with a much better QB and more mature OL and DL. They started a true freshman and another played some on the OL yesterday. 

And the fact that Freund doesn't get Weah at least 25 touches a game is a travesty. It appeared Skokna and Gee were on the field for as many if not more snaps than Weah. Weah should have been used as much as Luepke was yesterday. take him out for a play or two breather every few plays.  And Schuster needs to run some. There were a few times yesterday he had 10 yards and a first down if he would have taken it. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

9 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Again, its college football.  WR's will never get open if the DB doesn't care about getting beat deep.  Kenny Golladay could be out there and I honestly don't think Tommy could throw it with enough velocity to honor a "double move".  With no ability to throw a deep ball and no QB run threat, it takes an incredible amount of pressure off opposing defenses.  We need to at least try a couple series with Quincy and Otis executing RPO and Quincy throwing some deep PA.  IMO totally different game yesterday with a true dual  threat QB who has the ability to hit a pass 40 yards down field or even a deep crossing route.   The TD pass before half is beyond anything we even will attempt.

Coaching needs to evaluate their poor performance yesterday and get back to the coaching which brought us to the party(first 4 games).  Yesterday was not it.

what good is a rpo if the qb just will not run...

brockstar or q need to get a look qb

[SIOUXFAN97]

when was the last time und threw a true bomb...bartels to hardin in 2013?

sometimes you have to chuck it downfield to keep those safeties honest

 

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, bincitysioux said:

I was at the game, UND did not get "out-coached".

The game was lost because NDSU's offensive line is much stronger than our defensive line.  That is it, that is why, there is no other reason.  That was the only difference, and it was glaring.  Our defensive front wasn't enough.  That's it, case closed.  

The officiating was brutal.   But had the refs made the right calls (specifically on PI calls), that would not have stopped the NDSU O-Lline and Luepke from running roughshod over us.  The incompetent MVFC refs were a factor in this game to be sure.  But we still would have lost regardless. NDSU is better in the trenches and that is where it counted on Saturday....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can disagree. Pre-NDSU I thought we had outcoached the other staff in all 4 games, some by a bunch. 

First TD run by Leupke they pulled a guard away from the play which gave them numbers at point of attack.  Set the tone for the game.  How about that for momentum? a FB's first carry of the season goes for a 55 yard almost untouched TD run which had zero to do with DL deficiency.

1st 4th down on O we have what amounted to a FB dive with Weah lined up 7 yards deep.  NDSU knows its coming and has the middle stacked.  No reason not to call a TO.  Huge momentum play in the game.

 

Play calling in the 2nd qtr was lousy at best.  The game was still ours to take at that point.  Weah had 4 rushes for 30 yards(7.5 ypc) in the 2nd qtr and Tommy was 4-10 in the 2nd qtr.  No idea why Weah didn't have 10 rushes, how likely was he to house one at that point.  Need to come up with PA using OW and no idea why he is EVER split out in the slot?  Who are we fooling?  

After Morrison left the game the DC needed to stack the box and make Zeb beat us.  We didn't.  Zeb completed 5 passes in the game and 2 of them were in the first 2 drives, then they pulled him after the 2nd pick.  

Overall no idea why Weah doesn't get 20 plus carries a game.  He is the home run threat.

The officiating WAS brutal, but control what you can control and don't worry about the rest.  I'm not sure how it would have affected the outcome of the play but I thought Siegel hit at goalline which caused pick could have been targeting.  Late first half OPI was missed on Watson TD for sure as was a late in the game PI on a deep fade.

 

 

[siouxfan512]

9 hours ago, F'n Hawks said:

Really worried about NT for the next couple of weeks. With injuries we have even less size then we already did. YSU rushed for 303 yards last week and their running back has been over 100 yards the past 3 games. Our lack of size and depth on the d-line might finally catch up to us.

If I'm Craig Orlando, I'm extremely motivated to add some weight and win a spot for the fall.

[Dustin]

I too felt that coaching adjustments could have helped our cause. We maybe wouldn’t have won, but the adjustments that seemed so promising in the other games weren’t there yesterday. We may have been outmatched at the line of scrimmage, but did we sell out to stop the run?  

[siouxfan512]

40 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

I think this is the year to get the Bison. Maybe if you get them at home in the playoffs. Next year when they play in the Alerus, you will be facing a much better NDSU team with a much better QB and more mature OL and DL. They started a true freshman and another played some on the OL yesterday. 

And the fact that Freund doesn't get Weah at least 25 touches a game is a travesty. It appeared Skokna and Gee were on the field for as many if not more snaps than Weah. Weah should have been used as much as Luepke was yesterday. take him out for a play or two breather every few plays.  And Schuster needs to run some. There were a few times yesterday he had 10 yards and a first down if he would have taken it. 

Agreed, we should see a better NDSU team in the fall, but I would also argue, you should see a better UND team. Our O-line was not the problem, but our D-Line needs to add some weight and figure it out. 

You are correct in questioning how Weah doest get more carries in that game. He was playing fine ... might have gotten stuffed here and there, but also broke some plays and should have had more chances. Skokna has a place in the offense as a change of pace back, and more to the outside, also should have fielded all of the kickoffs. Nothing personal against Gee, but he just doesn't have that extra talent the others have.

Got out played; and while we may not have been outcoached by Entz. We outcoached ourselves. Self destruction with some of the game plan and decisions. 1 game, time to move on. Playoffs are still very much in play. The Valley championship is still very much in play. Hope to beat the Bison next year.

[Midwestern Hawk]

8 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I too felt that coaching adjustments could have helped our cause. We maybe wouldn’t have won, but the adjustments that seemed so promising in the other games weren’t there yesterday. We may have been outmatched at the line of scrimmage, but did we sell out to stop the run?  

Short answer is no. Bison sold out to stop Weah and still had lots of trouble with him.