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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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32 minutes ago, Old Fella said:

No need to get defensive or paranoid.

We like you and your friends.

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion/Even if it is wrong.   (Old Fella)

At least the coronavirus deaths in the last 24 hours is finally more than those children killed by abuse/neglect on a daily average so that "fact" will fit your narrative.

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Talked to a gal today who owns two businesses. Shes had to lay off people at both.

She called Job Service and they said they cant collect unemployment if they test positive for Coronavirus.

She said well I guess I'm doing them a favor by laying them off now.

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3 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Talked to a gal today who owns two businesses. Shes had to lay off people at both.

She called Job Service and they said they cant collect unemployment if they test positive for Coronavirus.

She said well I guess I'm doing them a favor by laying them off now.

My two best friends own and operate small businesses in MT and WA. Both laid off half their employees yesterday.

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5 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

My two best friends own and operate small businesses in MT and WA. Both laid off half their employees yesterday.

That’s too bad. What types of businesses? Can you give us some details? Does anyone have any stories of how this is is affecting local businesses?

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7 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

You've obviously made sure it is very clear you don't agree with the steps/precautions being put in place. I'm honestly curious what your alternative plan of attack would have been and what you would have deemed acceptable as collateral damage? And understand that if you're wrong, the cat is out of the bag and there isn't a do-over on containing it.

Or maybe you're just venting? It is an incredibly tough situation for everyone but continuing to criticize the experts who are leading this (or tring to) isn't going to magically make it better.

I'm just pointing out statistically this country has many other societal ills that take lives....many more as of today. If you want to believe this country is going to have 100000 lives taken from coronavirus in 4 weeks like the "experts" keep parroting that's up to you.

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6 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

That’s too bad. What types of businesses? Can you give us some details? Does anyone have any stories of how this is is affecting local businesses?

Service industry

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13 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

I'm just pointing out statistically this country has many other societal ills that take lives....many more as of today. If you want to believe this country is going to have 100000 lives taken from coronavirus in 4 weeks like the "experts" keep parroting that's up to you.

That's fine and I don't disagree, but I'm genuinely curious on what alternative you would propose for the current issue? 

We can worry about enforcing nanny state laws after this is done with to address the other problems. There is apparently something different in how the experts (who see all the same statistics you keep pointing out) are viewing this vs. other things, so let's take worry about the one right in front of us right now.

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I think the challenge is that we haven’t seen the true carnage of this virus, so the Health numbers at this point are far from overwhelming, while the economic numbers On the other hand are devastating.  
 

From a purely logical perspective if 4% of those afflicted end up in serious/critical condition and this virus Afflicts with symptoms just 10% of the US population (call that 33M), then we have 1.3M people needing hospital support...if 10% of those people die, we’re at 130,000.  Those would be fairly conservative estimates.  
 

If each death was worth $1M and each surviving hospitalized person was worth $200k, then the break even economic impact is $364T

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43 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Service industry

Can you elaborate why he had to lay off half of his employees in Montana working in the service industry? How did the Coronavirus force him to do that?

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Just now, Redneksioux said:

Can you elaborate why he had to lay off half of his employees in Montana working in the service industry? How did the Coronavirus force him to do that?

I would venture to guess that people aren’t buying the services in this environment of social distancing and self quarantine 

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7 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

I would venture to guess that people aren’t buying the services in this environment of social distancing and self quarantine 

Electrician friend of mine is dealing with that issue.  Few residential service calls and a lot of businesses he normally works with are closed.

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The point is the precedence this is creating and the complete lack of a big picture view.  If West Nile cases spike above normal in the summer are all swimming pools, lakes, and MLB baseball closing down for the balance of Summer?  Are routine flu seasons going to become quarantine months every year?  History has proven there will always be another disease to scare people.  Everyone is comparing the US to Italy....well there is a report out of Italy stating that the actual number of cases may be 10 times greater than what has been reported.  If the same applies in the US, which is very possible, what does that say about the actual mortality of this disease?  Something worth paying attention to and taking targeted precautions in certain densely populated areas? Sure.  Worth crashing an economy over?  Nope.  

Which will be greater.....the number of Corona deaths in the US over the next month or the number of suicides/overdoses/heart attacks of people stressed out over no longer having a job to pay their bills due to corona job loss over the next year?

 

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26 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

That's fine and I don't disagree, but I'm genuinely curious on what alternative you would propose for the current issue? 

We can worry about enforcing nanny state laws after this is done with to address the other problems. There is apparently something different in how the experts (who see all the same statistics you keep pointing out) are viewing this vs. other things, so let's take worry about the one right in front of us right now.

The problem I am seeing is that the experts are only worried about one thing right now - the virus.  The economy is completely collapsing and thousands are losing their jobs.  Why can't it a be a 70/30 thing or whatever?  Right now it's 100/0.  Seems like preparations for opening businesses and such can certainly be a conversation. 

Do we need to burn our country to the ground over an unknown virus?

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13 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

The point is the precedence this is creating and the complete lack of a big picture view.  If West Nile cases spike above normal in the summer are all swimming pools, lakes, and MLB baseball closing down for the balance of Summer?  Are routine flu seasons going to become quarantine months every year?  History has proven there will always be another disease to scare people.  Everyone is comparing the US to Italy....well there is a report out of Italy stating that the actual number of cases may be 10 times greater than what has been reported.  If the same applies in the US, which is very possible, what does that say about the actual mortality of this disease?  Something worth paying attention to and taking targeted precautions in certain densely populated areas? Sure.  Worth crashing an economy over?  Nope.  

Which will be greater.....the number of Corona deaths in the US over the next month or the number of suicides/overdoses/heart attacks of people stressed out over no longer having a job to pay their bills due to corona job loss over the next year?

 

I too worry about the precedent.  I worry more that decisions are being made in part due to politics. 
 

On the flip side, I am more worried than I was before about the bug.  If just 4% of people are getting critically ill, that still feels pretty high to me.  If 3/4 of them are old/sick to begin with, you’re still looking at 1% of otherwise healthy people ending up in the hospital if they catch this.
 

Does anyone know what % of influenza infections end up hospitalized?  I don’t know anyone who has never had the flu, and I don’t know anyone who has been hospitalized from the flu.

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23 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

I too worry about the precedent.  I worry more that decisions are being made in part due to politics. 
 

On the flip side, I am more worried than I was before about the bug.  If just 4% of people are getting critically ill, that still feels pretty high to me.  If 3/4 of them are old/sick to begin with, you’re still looking at 1% of otherwise healthy people ending up in the hospital if they catch this.
 

Does anyone know what % of influenza infections end up hospitalized?  I don’t know anyone who has never had the flu, and I don’t know anyone who has been hospitalized from the flu.

This flu season.....1.2% based on the CDC median estimates of total infected and total hospitalized.

Last year's flu season was 1.4%.

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Why is it some states are prepared and some aren’t?

so now we hear  NY had the chance to buy 16000 ventilators in 2015 and chose not to.

you get  them 40000 ventilators and who is going to run them

how does a state plan for something like this

i can’t see where the US can have a stockpile of everything for every state.

when this is over there will be hearings until the election on everything trump did wrong, not on what went right

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Kab said:

Why is it some states are prepared and some aren’t?

so now we hear  NY had the chance to buy 16000 ventilators in 2015 and chose not to.

you get  them 40000 ventilators and who is going to run them

how does a state plan for something like this

i can’t see where the US can have a stockpile of everything for every state.

when this is over there will be hearings until the election on everything trump did wrong, not on what went right

 

 

 

 

And how is it the federal governments job to dictate what a state procures for itself? I think too many people haven’t familiarized themselves with the constitution.  The President isn’t the boss of the states.  

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5 minutes ago, Kab said:

 

you get  them 40000 ventilators and who is going to run them

Anesthesia, for one.  You have a ton of anesthesiologists without scheduled surgeries except for emergencies. NY allowance of CRNAs to temporarily work without the standard MD oversight increases the numbers even more.  Plus the plea for outside providers to come.  And the plea for military providers.

Right now the lack of meds necessary for vented patients (sedation, paralytic, pain control) seems like it will be as much of an issue as the vents themselves.

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27 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

The problem I am seeing is that the experts are only worried about one thing right now - the virus.  The economy is completely collapsing and thousands are losing their jobs.  Why can't it a be a 70/30 thing or whatever?  Right now it's 100/0.  Seems like preparations for opening businesses and such can certainly be a conversation. 

Do we need to burn our country to the ground over an unknown virus?

I agree, you have the virus experts who want to shut everything down as the only solution. And you have others who just want to go on as is, whatever happens, happens. The answer is somewhere in the middle, which I'd argue right now we are closer to 70/30 as there are still plenty of places open that I wouldn't necessarily say are "essential". We're also pretty far from any sort of lockdown in the majority of the country. India is a lot closer to 100/0 right now compared to the US with 1.3 billion people ordered to stay home for 21 days oustide of health care, law enforcement, media, and other essential services.

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11 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

And how is it the federal governments job to dictate what a state procures for itself? I think too many people haven’t familiarized themselves with the constitution.  The President isn’t the boss of the states.  

It’s not, that’s my point,  the Problem is when states don’t take care of them selves and then blame the feds for not taking care of them

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47 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

The problem I am seeing is that the experts are only worried about one thing right now - the virus.  The economy is completely collapsing and thousands are losing their jobs.  Why can't it a be a 70/30 thing or whatever?  Right now it's 100/0.  Seems like preparations for opening businesses and such can certainly be a conversation. 

Do we need to burn our country to the ground over an unknown virus?

To the dismay of many here Trump looking to restart the economy and open the country back up by Easter. 

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