UND to Summit/MVFC

[darell1976]

9 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

He's pissed because it's going to result in the eastern schools getting "easy" schedules while UNI will not have that benefit. 

Oh cry me a river. If UNI wants easy schedules join the PFL.

[Oxbow6]

4 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

This move sucks

FYP

[UNDBIZ]

6 hours ago, GDPritch said:

Hmm, are we, by how much?

Around 15 scholarships. 

[bang]

8 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

That honestly exists today.

Most folks call it the "G5". 

P5: Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Big Twelve, PAC-12
G5: MAC, MWC, Sun Belt, C-USA, AAC, WAC

That's a fair point but there's no playoff or national champion crowned for G5. 

[Oxbow6]

Anyone remember the cartoon with Spike and Chester? That's what this move resembles.  NDSU is Spike and UND is Chester.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 hours ago, SooToo said:

Where they go we should follow. ... That's your idea of vision for the future of UND and it's athletics department? The Big Sky is a remarkably stable FCS/mid-major conference with a growing list of flagship universities and "destination" school sites. Too bad you can't see beyond the Fargo media hype.

I don't read or subscribe to the Fargo media - can't stand their NDSU bias, actually. This is an opinion I have formulated myself based on the tremendous sense it makes. NDSU aside, you're not giving South Dakota State and South Dakota their due credit. There is just too much financial and logistical logic associated with UND being in the same conference as the other Dakota schools. That is what this comes down to. UND can still schedule out-of-conference games with "destination" school sites out west but now just not at the regular expense of the athletic department's budget and, quite frankly, the fans who like to travel to follow the UND teams in addition to hockey. 

In addition to Dakota schools, UNI with MVFC and Omaha and Denver with the Summit are also nice locations. 

I really hope the dismay for this move isn't from a competitive side, because if it is, then expectations need to be raised. UND needs to get better and be able to beat rival regional schools on the field/court head-to-head, not just with message board rhetoric as it has been for 14 years.

[Siouxperman8]

This decision was made for $$ reasons.  GF Herald estimated $500k per year.  I was told by a person on the keep/cut sports committee that it is $800k/year.  There are budget cuts coming.  This is a fairly benign way to help with that.  There are people on both sides of the debate so I see it as pretty even.

If we could have afforded the Big Sky I'm sure we would have stayed.  If all of us fans and donors had provided another $1M or so to UND per year I'm sure we would have stayed also.

[iramurphy]

5 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

This move is about location, location, location.

I can read a map.  It is about money.  Location is a huge factor related to expenses.  We won't save money if we are mired in the middle of the MVC.  We were just establishing ourselves as a Big Sky power in FB and WBB.  We are there in VB.   Hopefully now in MBB.  We haven't launched any marketing with the new logo.  We haven't stepped up our marketing for athletics and the University.  We leave a lot of money on the table and tend to focus on cutting expenses rather than increase revenues.

[bincitysioux]

37 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

 

I really hope the dismay for this move isn't from a competitive side, because if it is, then expectations need to be raised. UND needs to get better and be able to beat rival regional schools on the field/court head-to-head, not just with message board rhetoric as it has been for 14 years.

For those that are in favor of Big Sky affiliation, I think the dismay comes from the fact that this move gives yet more credence to the perception that UND's largest focus athletically is to be conjoined to NDSU and will follow their direction in most instances.  We followed them into Division I with the hopes of immediately getting to play them again.  We agreed to be a "buy" game for them in an undeniably embarrassing football contract with them in order to play them again.  There is an old adage in rivalry situations that suggests "the season is a success as long as we beat our rivals".  To me, a move like this confirms that the leadership at UND is content on focusing on being #1 in the state, rather than #1 in the region or #1 in the nation.  This type of thinking is why UND has 1 football national championship to NDSU's 13.  

I concede that this move makes sense financially in the short term.  But looking forward long term, in my opinion Big Sky membership provides UND a path to higher standing and bigger stature on a much wider scale.  Not only to set itself apart from NDSU, but also from SDSU and USD.  All three are fine institutions and our peers both academically and athletically.  However my own long term vision for UND is that when someone from a far reaching corner of the country thinks of college athletics or academics in the Dakotas (North or South), that UND is the first thing that comes to mind.  

So, no my overall dismay doesn't come from a competitive standpoint.  Both leagues provide excellent competition athletically.  I will always feel that the Big Sky offered an opportunity to the entire university as whole, not just the athletic department, that no other school in the region had the benefit of.  One that UND and its supporters never embraced, because they had tunnel vision on being the best in the state, rather than envisioning the casting of a much wider umbrella.

[Siouxperfan7]

The absolute #1 reason that UND is switching conferences is to save money.  UND is having to make budget cuts and by switching to the Summit/MVFC, that makes it a whole lot easier.  One poster said 500K and maybe up to 800K per year.  Tough times call for tough decisions.  With the rising costs of travel, there is no way that UND could continue to play in a conference where constant travel halfway across the country was required.  

 

 

[Teeder11]

9 minutes ago, bincitysioux said:

For those that are in favor of Big Sky affiliation, I think the dismay comes from the fact that this move gives yet more credence to the perception that UND's largest focus athletically is to be conjoined to NDSU and will follow their direction in most instances.  We followed them into Division I with the hopes of immediately getting to play them again.  We agreed to be a "buy" game for them in an undeniably embarrassing football contract with them in order to play them again.  There is an old adage in rivalry situations that suggests "the season is a success as long as we beat our rivals".  To me, a move like this confirms that the leadership at UND is content on focusing on being #1 in the state, rather than #1 in the region or #1 in the nation.  This type of thinking is why UND has 1 football national championship to NDSU's 13.  

I concede that this move makes sense financially in the short term.  But looking forward long term, in my opinion Big Sky membership provides UND a path to higher standing and bigger stature on a much wider scale.  Not only to set itself apart from NDSU, but also from SDSU and USD.  All three are fine institutions and our peers both academically and athletically.  However my own long term vision for UND is that when someone from a far reaching corner of the country thinks of college athletics or academics in the Dakotas (North or South), that UND is the first thing that comes to mind.  

So, no my overall dismay doesn't come from a competitive standpoint.  Both leagues provide excellent competition athletically.  I will always feel that the Big Sky offered an opportunity to the entire university as whole, not just the athletic department, that no other school in the region had the benefit of.  One that UND and its supporters never embraced, because they had tunnel vision on being the best in the state, rather than envisioning the casting of a much wider umbrella.

For the past 5-7 years, being best in the state was the best nationally, and we can certainly continue that trend regardless of which conference we are in for football  -- at a lower cost, within driving distance of our traditional rivals and in our geographical footprint/time zone. Thus I'm not buying the utter doom and gloom scenarios.

[petey23]

If this move would mean the following

bring back baseball + money saved on travel in all sports  >=  the actual cost of women's hockey then I am all for it.

 

 

I am not against the MVFC as it is a great football conference and I have come around on the Summit as being in a conference with UNO, DU, USD, SDSU, and NDSU is a positive.

I would however at the end of the day, rather stay in the BIg Sky and if this is saving us 500-800k a year that still is not enough to justify the losses yearly of a certain program.

[CMSioux]

I'm hoping that this energizes some of the fan base to make road trips especially in football. There used to be a nice contingency at most of the NCC games, nothing compared to hockey but at least it's a possibility now with 400 mile road trips vs 2,000 mile road trips (round trip). Plus the basketball tournament in Sioux Falls is much more doable for an average fan than Reno.

I will enjoy a game against Western Ilinois as much as one againt Southern Utah.  

[UNDvince97-01]

Did we just close the doors on the University or change from the Big Sky Conference to the Summit/MVFC?

Some pros, some cons.  Some losses, some gains.

Overall it's a net gain in my opinion and we have some opportunities now we didn't have before.

I understand and respect the frustration by some here who had personal preferences for the BSC.  I even agree with some of them.

However, this is the BEST move for UND right now given all the variables in my dumbass opinion.

[UND-1]

Need to remember that the bottom half of the Big Sky did not like having UND in the league.  It was not sustainable for UND to be in the Big Sky, at the size it's currrently at.  Too many trips to Grand Forks that cost SUU, Sac, PSU, and other smaller schools over six figures each year.  Those schools are ecstatic.  

[siouxfan512]

5 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Need to remember that the bottom half of the Big Sky did not like having UND in the league.  It was not sustainable for UND to be in the Big Sky, at the size it's currrently at.  Too many trips to Grand Forks that cost SUU, Sac, PSU, and other smaller schools over six figures each year.  Those schools are ecstatic.  

A lot of fans not happy that we will remain an affiliate school in football. They'd rather see us be independent for a few years. To your point, they don't want to have to see their teams travel, or foot the bill, if we're leaving the conference anyway.

[Oxbow6]

4 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Need to remember that the bottom half of the Big Sky did not like having UND in the league.  It was not sustainable for UND to be in the Big Sky, at the size it's currently at.  Too many trips to Grand Forks that cost SUU, Sac, PSU, and other smaller schools over six figures each year.  Those schools are ecstatic.  

I can get this part...........but those stating that being in the MVFC/Summit will potentially increasing UND fans at away games is ridiculous when UND can't even get fans to show up for most home games.

[North Dakota]

20 minutes ago, bincitysioux said:

For those that are in favor of Big Sky affiliation, I think the dismay comes from the fact that this move gives yet more credence to the perception that UND's largest focus athletically is to be conjoined to NDSU and will follow their direction in most instances.  We followed them into Division I with the hopes of immediately getting to play them again.  We agreed to be a "buy" game for them in an undeniably embarrassing football contract with them in order to play them again.  There is an old adage in rivalry situations that suggests "the season is a success as long as we beat our rivals".  To me, a move like this confirms that the leadership at UND is content on focusing on being #1 in the state, rather than #1 in the region or #1 in the nation.  This type of thinking is why UND has 1 football national championship to NDSU's 13.  

I concede that this move makes sense financially in the short term.  But looking forward long term, in my opinion Big Sky membership provides UND a path to higher standing and bigger stature on a much wider scale.  Not only to set itself apart from NDSU, but also from SDSU and USD.  All three are fine institutions and our peers both academically and athletically.  However my own long term vision for UND is that when someone from a far reaching corner of the country thinks of college athletics or academics in the Dakotas (North or South), that UND is the first thing that comes to mind.  

So, no my overall dismay doesn't come from a competitive standpoint.  Both leagues provide excellent competition athletically.  I will always feel that the Big Sky offered an opportunity to the entire university as whole, not just the athletic department, that no other school in the region had the benefit of.  One that UND and its supporters never embraced, because they had tunnel vision on being the best in the state, rather than envisioning the casting of a much wider umbrella.

Lol how's that been working out for us the last 10 years?

NDSU has ate our lunch nationally. Hell UND is probably 4th now behind the SD schools as well all because of the elitist attitude from our administration 15 years ago. Maybe if the supporters of this school gave half as much attention (money/interest) to the entire athletic program that they do to the hockey program we wouldn't be in the shape we are in. Until that happens and I don't see it happening anytime soon UND is always going to be behind the 8 ball when it comes to national recognition as an institution. But hey at least we have hockey!

[UND-1]

2 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

I can get this part...........but those stating that being in the MVFC/Summit will potentially increasing UND fans at away games is ridiculous when UND can't even get fans to show up for most home games.

I don't know why anyone would focus on UND getting more people to road games now.  If they want to, they will.  

To me, this move will assure more butts in the seats for home games due to familiarity and rivalries.  That is the most important part.  

Increased revenue at home games, decreased expenses for road games.

 

[UND-1]

5 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

A lot of fans not happy that we will remain an affiliate school in football. They'd rather see us be independent for a few years. To your point, they don't want to have to see their teams travel, or foot the bill, if we're leaving the conference anyway.

The move wouldn't be happening if UND had to go independent for two years.  Moot point.  

[mksioux]

10 hours ago, iramurphy said:

I am not too excited about this.  I also don't like asking someone to let us into the Big Sky then backing out when things get tough.  Maybe we have no choice,  but I would rather remain in the Big Sky.   

I've thought about that too, but I strongly suspect the exit fee will be waived.  Fullerton has said that the exit fee would be waived if UND went about exiting in the right way.  I assume UND did that.  That tells me that UND never really had strong support among Big Sky institutions (at least once USD bailed at the last minute).  Perhaps some people at Montana, Montana State, and UNC might be a little disappointed, but I doubt anyone from the other institutions care all that much that UND is leaving, and some of them are probably happy about it.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

37 minutes ago, bincitysioux said:

For those that are in favor of Big Sky affiliation, I think the dismay comes from the fact that this move gives yet more credence to the perception that UND's largest focus athletically is to be conjoined to NDSU and will follow their direction in most instances.  We followed them into Division I with the hopes of immediately getting to play them again.  We agreed to be a "buy" game for them in an undeniably embarrassing football contract with them in order to play them again.  There is an old adage in rivalry situations that suggests "the season is a success as long as we beat our rivals".  To me, a move like this confirms that the leadership at UND is content on focusing on being #1 in the state, rather than #1 in the region or #1 in the nation.  This type of thinking is why UND has 1 football national championship to NDSU's 13.  

I concede that this move makes sense financially in the short term.  But looking forward long term, in my opinion Big Sky membership provides UND a path to higher standing and bigger stature on a much wider scale.  Not only to set itself apart from NDSU, but also from SDSU and USD.  All three are fine institutions and our peers both academically and athletically.  However my own long term vision for UND is that when someone from a far reaching corner of the country thinks of college athletics or academics in the Dakotas (North or South), that UND is the first thing that comes to mind.  

So, no my overall dismay doesn't come from a competitive standpoint.  Both leagues provide excellent competition athletically.  I will always feel that the Big Sky offered an opportunity to the entire university as whole, not just the athletic department, that no other school in the region had the benefit of.  One that UND and its supporters never embraced, because they had tunnel vision on being the best in the state, rather than envisioning the casting of a much wider umbrella.

I can understand your stance; however, I feel UND needs to be the best in the state before they can be the best (or one of the best) in the country. I guess we just disagree on the progressive order or priority of goals.

In referencing UND's and NDSU's football championships, NDSU was the top team in the state when they won national championships - both at the DII and DI level. When UND won the 2001 DII National Championship, they were the best in the state. You don't win the national championship if you first can't win the state championship - this move allows UND to do that. 

I will admit, whether you intended to mean this or not, that your comments do reflect the potential competitive interests of UND. UND needs to be more competitive so that they can take on the task of being the best in the state AND being the best in the country. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

18 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

I can get this part...........but those stating that being in the MVFC/Summit will potentially increasing UND fans at away games is ridiculous when UND can't even get fans to show up for most home games.

What usually follows rebuilding a FB team, rebuilding your fan base. Summit sports included. We had some lean years in the transition of Div I. Just spoke with friends and we will be making road games, have done so in the Div II days. Only one in the group went to a Montana game. I remember your comments about our attendance at FB games last season, and I'm hoping for better attendance myself. What I sense happening, is, in a few years there will be comments on here, that the Hawk's Nest isn't big enough, which was probably going to happen even if we stayed in the Big Sky, because our fan base already started the rebuilding process.

[mksioux]

11 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

The move wouldn't be happening if UND had to go independent for two years.  Moot point.  

That is correct.  Perhaps some fans of Sac State and those types of schools are voicing opinions that the Big Sky should have dropped UND immediately, but UND never would have agreed to that.  Their administrators are smart enough to know that, in the long run, having UND out of the conference will save money, even if it takes a few years to transition them out.  

[geaux_sioux]

Attendance will receive an instant shot in the arm. Increased revenue  is a good thing. Decreased travel cost is a good thing. Are Indiana St and Missouri St really worse than Sac St or Idaho St? The Dakotas and UNI > the Montanas Poly and EWU.