UND hockey team anthem kneeling

[UNDBIZ]

Just now, TheFlop said:

Because the football team did it?

Kneeled?  When?

[Nodak78]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

Why punish the football team?

Its  UND to correct.  My greadgrandfather's brother died in the Civil war.  I will not accept disrespecting the flag and ideals he died for.  I haven't watched pro BB or FB and I done with them.

[jdub27]

UND Fans: The anthem is sacred, no one should dare do anything that might be considered disrespectful to it or our country!!!!
Also UND Fans: "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave SIOUX!!!"

A hell of a lot of selective outrage going on.

 

11 hours ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

He must be buttering up his social justice archives in preparation for a job at the NYT. Guy has gone full send on 2020. Surprising considering the GFH is already hanging on by a thread. Why alienate half your readers?! Bad business sense apparently  

There's a reason it was leaked prior to the game

[TheFlop]

Just now, UNDBIZ said:

Kneeled?  When?

Was reference to NDSU.  Maybe I misunderstood you were referencing a different school.  But in NDSUs example, players represent the team, players choose to engage in activity that people aren't happy with, donors aren't obligated to donate if activity makes them unhappy, football team gets punished with less money.  

[UNDBIZ]

Just now, TheFlop said:

Was reference to NDSU.  Maybe I misunderstood you were referencing a different school.  But in NDSUs example, players represent the team, players choose to engage in activity that people aren't happy with, donors aren't obligated to donate if activity makes them unhappy, football team gets punished with less money.  

I was talking to Nodak78, who is a UND football fan.  NDSU fball can kick rocks.

[Wilbur]

2 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

UND Fans: The anthem is sacred, no one should dare do anything that might be considered disrespectful to it or our country!!!!
Also UND Fans: "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave SIOUX!!!"

 

 

There's a reason it was leaked prior to the game

Ohh I see.  Nobody there.....Midco doesn't ever show anthem.  Nobody finds out they did it until maybe a social media post.  I got it.  

[TheFlop]

9 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

The world is full of information, messages, and stimuli - conflicting values - some of which are unpleasant, and most of which are completely sub-conscious or conveniently ignored.

Look around you.  Shirts, brands, imported cars, bumper stickers, billboards, political signs left in a yard long past an election, certain businesses (Chick-fil-A and Hobby Lobby come to mind)...you can't walk in a store or drive down a street without being bombarded with potentially controversial information. Some is self-defined, some requires context, some requires you to have had past experiences.

If you think that you can sit in close confines with thousands of people for a couple of hours and be entirely free of "political statements," you're delusional.

Tips for the offended

1. Ignore the behavior.  Look away.  Focus on the flag.  Close your eyes.
2. Find a reason not to be in your seat.
3. Don't donate.
4. Don't go.
5. Don't patronize (or give repeat business to) sponsors or companies who espouse values contrary to your own, or who hire people that do.

If you do nothing else, you might want to take a moment and contemplate whether there is something greater at stake here, or whether the people engaged in the offensive conduct might have a different viewpoint, and figure out the true source of your 'offense.'

 

1) Insist that people don't ignore your views but that you shouldn't have to listen to theirs?  Nope.

2-5 already happening with pro sports.  People have described UND hockey as basically a pro sport.  Be careful what you wish for.  

[Blackheart]

4 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Ohh I see.  Nobody there.....Midco doesn't ever show anthem.  Nobody finds out they did it until maybe a social media post.  I got it.  

Why even bring it up then?  It has nothing to do with the game.

[dmksioux]

43 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

The problem is when it's presented via trojan horse.  If someone calls me into their home to install a new furnace, their expectation is that.....I will install a new furnace for them.  If instead I come into their house and spend the entire install time making political statements, should they have expected that?  No.  The only reason they wanted my services is for a furnace, not for political lecturing.

People go to hockey games to escape, not to have political statements thrown at them.  

Exactly.  These kids can have their story told by Schloss all they want.  Do the social justice thing on their own time, own dime as much as they want.  Once they start using a platform they received on the donations/contributions of others, I draw the line.  Keep it off the ice, off the field, and do whatever you want.  That's what these athletes don't understand.  

[jdub27]

6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Ohh I see.  Nobody there.....Midco doesn't ever show anthem.  Nobody finds out they did it until maybe a social media post.  I got it.  

No, it gets out (which there is zero doubt that it absolutely would) and the players don't get to give their reasonings and its completely misconstrued. A large percentage of people won't care about their reasoning, regardless of what it is but, again, it was about doing what is possible to control the message knowing there was going to be blowback.

[Blackheart]

Just now, dmksioux said:

Exactly.  These kids can have their story told by Schloss all they want.  Do the social justice thing on their own time, own dime as much as they want.  Once they start using a platform they received on the donations/contributions of others, I draw the line.  Keep it off the ice, off the field, and do whatever you want.  That's what these athletes don't understand.  

Drop the puck already!

[Wilbur]

3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

No, it gets out (which there is zero doubt that it absolutely would) and the players don't get to give their reasonings and its completely misconstrued. A large percentage of people won't care about their reasoning, regardless of what it is but, again, it was about doing what is possible to control the message knowing there was going to be blowback.

Isn't that kind of what I said?  So it didn't get out via social media?  

[Oxbow6]

21 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Kneeled?  When?

This spring or fall. Guaranteed it will happen if/when they have a season at some point.

[UNDBIZ]

Just now, Oxbow6 said:

This spring or fall. Guaranteed it will happen if/when they have a season at some point.

I wouldn't bet against it happening in the future, but it hasn't yet (as far as I know).

[UNDBIZ]

11 minutes ago, AJS said:

Edit: More than anything I have no idea how anyone thinks Kneeling is an affective way to promote your message. 

Agreed.  If anyone wants proof of that, has the reasoning behind their kneeling even been mentioned here?  If they truly just wanted publicity for their message, they've already got it from Schloss.

[90siouxfan]

Wonder if they will wear suits?

 

Also wonder if J. Weatherby is just a trouble maker?

Wonder what the Ottowa Senators think about this?

 

I don't like to downplay racism, but I suspect that the underlying issue hinges more on respect, trust, and tolerance.

[Blackheart]

1 hour ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

And?  What's so terrible about letting the significance and importance of speech and expression be up to the individual engaging in it, and not everyone else?  It's one of the quintessential notions of the American ideal.

Many of the people we now celebrate were chastised by the masses.

Are you referring to DaveK?

[dmksioux]

25 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

UND Fans: The anthem is sacred, no one should dare do anything that might be considered disrespectful to it or our country!!!!
Also UND Fans: "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave SIOUX!!!"

A hell of a lot of selective outrage going on.

 

There's a reason it was leaked prior to the game

I never liked the home of the Sioux during the anthem and never participated.  The difference here is the fans are paying customers who spend their money and have freedom of speech.  These athletic programs are being supported by these fans through donations and contributions.  Monetarily, the athletes are not invested.  Other than the non-scholly players.  Can the kids kneel for the anthem.  Sure.  Will it upset a portion of the fanbase, absolutely.  Will it affect the bottom line of UND athletics, I’m guessing it will.  Will the AD/coaches support the “biting the hand that feeds you?”

im with the crowd that will stop following/donating/supporting UND teams that do this.  Already stopped following professional sports.  The fans gave athletes their platform and they can just as easily take it away.

[fightingsioux4life]

12 hours ago, Big Green said:

These 2 players are going to cost the university a bunch of money.  A lot of donors with not put up with this and will pull their donations.  

Really? Just like all those "donors" who swore that they wouldn't give another penny to UND if the Fighting Sioux name and logo changed? I won't hold my breath.

[petey23]

39 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

UND Fans: The anthem is sacred, no one should dare do anything that might be considered disrespectful to it or our country!!!!
Also UND Fans: "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave SIOUX!!!"

A hell of a lot of selective outrage going on.

 

There's a reason it was leaked prior to the game

I heard about it a couple weeks ago. Timing of the article on the same day the Champions Club email went out probably couldn't be any worse. NDSU has been hit pretty hard with many donors saying not this year...guess we will see what happens in Grand Forks.

[Frozen4sioux]

56 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

This would be comical if it weren't so pathetic.

Three posts in less than 12 hours complaining about the manner of expression but offering literally NOTHING in the way of suggestions.  What types of constructive and non-offensive acts would you have these young men do?

If you're going to tell people to change and not do X, at least have the common courtesy to offer something up.  Especially when X is not harming you, other than offending your own personal and moral (i.e., not legal) sense of "right and wrong."

There actually have been multiple suggestions other than kneeling offered in this thread.

It seems maybe you read for reaction rather than comprehension.

 

[Frozen4sioux]

4 minutes ago, petey23 said:

I heard about it a couple weeks ago. Timing of the article on the same day the Champions Club email went out probably couldn't be any worse. NDSU has been hit pretty hard with many donors saying not this year...guess we will see what happens in Grand Forks.

I know that the Champions Club and Alumni association were well aware before the story "leaked"...

They are fielding calls and there has been donations and giving cancelled already. That just goes along with the territory of public vitue signals.

People react. 

[JohnboyND7]

Big issue for schools regardless of whether they make donors mad...some people with tickets for years or decades will not renew tickets after a year of watching at home on TV.

Hockey might be a bit better protected because its so much better in person, but watching a game from your couch with reasonably priced food and a six pack you bought for the cost of one beer at the Ralph is rather enticing once you get used to it.

 

[SiouxFan100]

Mods

Can this thread be moved somewhere else? Perhaps to the community section. Not really hockey. Thanks 

[Blackheart]

Here's another log on the fire courtesy of the Star Tribune's Michael Rand...doesn't miss a chance to get a shot in at UND for a certain former nickname either.

https://www.startribune.com/north-dakota-hockey-players-plan-to-kneel-during-anthem/573262031/