Who would UND hire?

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, farce poobah said:

Wow!

UND loses its first game to an FCS opponent this season and a thread discussing football coaching staff gets almost 200 new posts.

Most schools would kill for that kind of passion in their fan base.

There’s definitely some passion for football at UND, despite what some might think, just need the right athletic department setup to fully unlock it. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

14 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Or any of the heavy hitters in MBB with FBS football, for that matter - Kansas, North Carolina, Kentucky.

See above post. Those institutions still have FB success - actually, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and Kentucky have very good FB teams this year (two are 4-0 and two are 3-1). Difference? Active athletic departments to find the right leadership for the program - not afraid to find someone different if it’s just not working. 

[nodak651]

19 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

 You are the one moving the goalpost to fit your tiny ego. As I and many others have explained to you before ALL SPORTS AT UND ARE D1. We all know that football isn't at the top of D1 but it also isn't considered D2 because the NCAA has a classification for D2 and UND is not in it. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend it? 

I bet your sole purpose of this argument is to degrade NDSU's success in football and it also comes at our schools expense.

His first couple sentences are also both contradictory and wrong.  NE10 runs a D2 hockey league.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

17 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I know a lot of UND fans who do this, and it pi$$es me off because, like you say, it's also a dig on UND FB.  

Proves the point there’s “hockey only fans”.

UND’s athletic department set up is unlike any other in the country - they have put all there eggs in one basket. Trying to make it big time while emphasizing hockey and overlooking the two most popular collegiate sports in the country (FB, BB). 
 

All you have to do is look at the immense growth NDSU has had over the past decade to know what the region really cares about. Many of those “NDSU fans” weren’t NDSU fans 15 years ago, but with the changing landscape, they’ve all gravitated to the school that funds the sports people care about (yes-even in North Dakota people love football and basketball - who knew??).

[siouxkid12]

7 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Proves the point there’s “hockey only fans”.

UND’s athletic department set up is unlike any other in the country - they have put all there eggs in one basket. Trying to make it big time while emphasizing hockey and overlooking the two most popular collegiate sports in the country (FB, BB). 
 

All you have to do is look at the immense growth NDSU has had over the past decade to know what the region really cares about. Many of those “NDSU fans” weren’t NDSU fans 15 years ago, but with the changing landscape, they’ve all gravitated to the school that funds the sports people care about (yes-even in North Dakota people love football and basketball - who knew??).

You are not wrong but NDSU is doing the same thing but with football as they have put all there eggs in one basket (football) because thats all they really have. UND is in a unique spot where they could have two big programs be contenders each year (hockey and football). 

I hate to say this but to me the hockey program isn't set up by the athletic department, its set up and directed by the Engelstad foundation/REA. 

[Dustin]

5 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

UND’s athletic department set up is unlike any other in the country - they have put all there eggs in one basket. Trying to make it big time while emphasizing hockey and overlooking the two most popular collegiate sports in the country (FB, BB). 

Don't take this as me defending that UND is doing the right thing by being set up this way, but it's kind of hard to ignore the $100M donation (and repeat smaller donations) meant specifically for that sport.  I don't like biting the hands that feed us, but in a sense, the Engelstads are "hockey only" fans (although, where the BB and VB teams play also bear the Engelstad name) and have created a culture of "hockey only" fans.

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, siouxkid12 said:

I hate to say this but to me the hockey program isn't set up by the athletic department, its set up and directed by the Engelstad foundation/REA.

You were typing this at the exact time I was typing my response, seen just above.  Spot on.

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

I hate to say this but to me the hockey program isn't set up by the athletic department, its set up and directed by the Engelstad foundation/REA. 

I completely agree and have mentioned it on this site several times. The athletic department is tied to the REA/Engelstad agreement. President Kennedy attempted to (rightfully) buck it a few years back, but McGarry went running to the press and used her public image - inflated by the REA donation - and won out.
 

UND entered into an agreement with the “devil” in order to get the (at the time) $100M REA. The dependence on the REA and Engelstad family has been hard on the other UND athletic programs, especially since going to Division I - where more funding is needed. 

[Bison Dan]

1 minute ago, siouxkid12 said:

You are not wrong but NDSU is doing the same thing but with football as they have put all there eggs in one basket (football) because thats all they really have. UND is in a unique spot where they could have two big programs be contenders each year (hockey and football). 

I hate to say this but to me the hockey program isn't set up by the athletic department, its set up and directed by the Engelstad foundation/REA. 

You couldn't be more wrong and uniformed.  SU has had sucess in most of its sports since going D1.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Don't take this as me defending that UND is doing the right thing by being set up this way, but it's kind of hard to ignore the $100M donation (and repeat smaller donations) meant specifically for that sport.  I don't like biting the hands that feed us, but in a sense, the Engelstads are "hockey only" fans (although, where the BB and VB teams play also bear the Engelstad name) and have created a culture of "hockey only" fans.

I agree completely - in fact, stated the same thing via my other post. By accepting the $100M donation and the REA, UND put themselves in a situation where they have to emphasize hockey. But, believe it or not, I think it’s hurt UND’s growth potential in the long run. Comes down to how the country (and even the state) views college hockey compared to college football and college basketball. Fact of the matter is, college football and college basketball are still incredibly popular in this area, and without question the most popular nationally.  

[UND1983]

29 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

See above post. Those institutions still have FB success - actually, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and Kentucky have very good FB teams this year (two are 4-0 and two are 3-1). Difference? Active athletic departments to find the right leadership for the program - not afraid to find someone different if it’s just not working. 

The Kentucky FB and BB coaches just got into it over support and such.  Their FB is an afterthought no matter how good they do

[gundy1124]

21 hours ago, jdub27 said:

As someone who sat through a portion of the interviews with all of the finalists, I'd disagree on that. 

How was that Eastern Washington athletic budget when he left?  That probably wasn't #1 on his resume. 

Why make a lateral FCS move if you're Chaves, maybe to share his great hockey background?

No wow factor besides staying awake at meetings.  But luckily for the AD Interview committee you can always say, "Hey, at least I wasn't on the re-naming or branding committee" 

[UND-FB-FAN]

41 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

The Kentucky FB and BB coaches just got into it over support and such.  Their FB is an afterthought no matter how good they do

The 60,000 people who attended last weekends Northern Illinois @ Kentucky game don’t think it’s an afterthought. And the media doesn’t think they’re an afterthought - they’re ranked #8 in the country right now. 
 

Mark Stoops has had up and down seasons at Kentucky. Been there even longer than Bubba has been HC at UND - wont surprise me if he leaves for a different school in the next year or two. He’s a candidate for Nebraska job. 

[siouxkid12]

8 minutes ago, Bison Dan said:

You couldn't be more wrong and uniformed.  SU has had sucess in most of its sports since going D1.

Are all those other sports at NDSU bringing in huge dollars? Putting NDSU on the national map? Are the contenders for national championships? 
 

[siouxkid12]

10 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I agree completely - in fact, stated the same thing via my other post. By accepting the $100M donation and the REA, UND put themselves in a situation where they have to emphasize hockey. But, believe it or not, I think it’s hurt UND’s growth potential in the long run. Comes down to how the country (and even the state) views college hockey compared to college football and college basketball. Fact of the matter is, college football and college basketball are still incredibly popular in this area, and without question the most popular nationally.  

You are correct, they had to emphasize hockey but what is forgotten is with that money comes a responsibility to produce championships. They can talk about tradition, culture and everything else all they want but when you don't produce its a huge drag on other programs that can be promoted.

[Dustin]

Just to dial back on things, how do we reconcile an article like this, where the kid says "Everything about them I loved," to the topic of this thread, which is essentially saying "we don't like our coach, who else is available"?  You've got to give some props to the staff for creating an environment that yields this kind of strong response.  We can't be doing everything wrong.

https://www.inforum.com/sports/prep/everything-about-them-i-loved-fargo-south-kicker-landon-docken-commits-to-und

[Sioux>Bison]

5 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

Are all those other sports at NDSU bringing in huge dollars? Putting NDSU on the national map? Are the contenders for national championships? 
 

Well they have done better than UND teams. Bison Dan is a tool but he’s king of right on this point. Their SB and BB teams make the national tourney multiple years. Their BB team has made the big dance a couple of years. I think their track and wrestling isn’t too bad, but that’s about where it ends.

[Sioux>Bison]

1 minute ago, Dustin said:

Just to dial back on things, how do we reconcile an article like this, where the kid says "Everything about them I loved," to the topic of this thread, which is essentially saying "we don't like our coach, who else is available"?  You've got to give some props to the staff for creating an environment that yields this kind of strong response.  We can't be doing everything wrong.

https://www.inforum.com/sports/prep/everything-about-them-i-loved-fargo-south-kicker-landon-docken-commits-to-und

Parents of the players love what Bubba has going on at UND. Like it or not it’s not all about winning……

[siouxkid12]

20 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I completely agree and have mentioned it on this site several times. The athletic department is tied to the REA/Engelstad agreement. President Kennedy attempted to (rightfully) buck it a few years back, but McGarry went running to the press and used her public image - inflated by the REA donation - and won out.
 

UND entered into an agreement with the “devil” in order to get the (at the time) $100M REA. The dependence on the REA and Engelstad family has been hard on the other UND athletic programs, especially since going to Division I - where more funding is needed. 

McGarry can pound sand too. This notion that we (UND) need to bend over backwards for her at every corner is exhausting and I for one can't wait until the Ralph is officially UND's. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

McGarry can pound sand too. This notion that we (UND) need to bend over backwards for her at every corner is exhausting and I for one can't wait until the Ralph is officially UND's. 

Spot on. As long as no loopholes open up, 2030 is a cardinal year. 
 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/und-ralph-engelstad-arena-reach-new-10-year-usage-agreement

read the details above, awful agreement for any sport at UND that is not hockey …

[siouxkid12]

2 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Well they have done better than UND teams. Bison Dan is a tool but he’s king of right on this point. Their SB and BB teams make the national tourney multiple years. Their BB team has made the big dance a couple of years. I think their track and wrestling isn’t too bad, but that’s about where it ends.

You and him are taking my post out of context. I said that NDSU has one contender and UND could potentially have 2 sports be contenders if they were smart. Name me one other sports that NDSU can say they will be contenders in?

Our men's and women's teams basketball teams and volleyball team have made the NCAA tournaments too but I definitely wouldn't be calling them contenders

[Mama Sue]

38 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Just to dial back on things, how do we reconcile an article like this, where the kid says "Everything about them I loved," to the topic of this thread, which is essentially saying "we don't like our coach, who else is available"?  You've got to give some props to the staff for creating an environment that yields this kind of strong response.  We can't be doing everything wrong.

https://www.inforum.com/sports/prep/everything-about-them-i-loved-fargo-south-kicker-landon-docken-commits-to-und

I read that article too this morning…great comments and yes, we must be doing something right

[Irish]

Blame hockey all you want but the sad fact is that Football's current problems are largely self-inflicted and could have been corrected.  There is a pent up enthusiasm for football that is just wanting to be unleashed every year - but seems to be dashed by what we do on the field.  Last year it died on our 20 yard line against the Bison.  We had it when we were successful in DII.  Our Athletic Department seems unwilling to make course corrections and prefers to just let things run its course.  We let Muss go on for 6, count em, 6 years before making a change.  And now we are in our 9th year of Bubba Ball - and let Rudy go on for what - 5 years?  How long would this last at NDSU?  Would better funding help - absolutely.  But let's not pretend that Bubba was our only choice when he was hired.  There is no demand from the top for excellence.  If we lay an egg Saturday just watch the crowds and enthusiasm shrink once again.  We have had 15 years of horrible leadership at the top and mediocre at best coaching.   And yet, here we are with a coaching extension through 2525.  This is not a map for success.  

 

[siouxkid12]

7 minutes ago, Irish said:

Blame hockey all you want but the sad fact is that Football's current problems are largely self-inflicted and could have been corrected.  There is a pent up enthusiasm for football that is just wanting to be unleashed every year - but seems to be dashed by what we do on the field.  Last year it died on our 20 yard line against the Bison.  We had it when we were successful in DII.  Our Athletic Department seems unwilling to make course corrections and prefers to just let things run its course.  We let Muss go on for 6, count em, 6 years before making a change.  And now we are in our 9th year of Bubba Ball - and let Rudy go on for what - 5 years?  How long would this last at NDSU?  Would better funding help - absolutely.  But let's not pretend that Bubba was our only choice when he was hired.  There is no demand from the top for excellence.  If we lay an egg Saturday just watch the crowds and enthusiasm shrink once again.  We have had 15 years of horrible leadership at the top and mediocre at best coaching.   And yet, here we are with a coaching extension through 2525.  This is not a map for success.  

 

I would agree that it is self-inflected but only to a point. Bubba is a good person to have when we need to raise funds for projects because he is all on board with what UND is trying to do (name change, new buildings, etc) His type of football however is no longer sufficient in the Missouri Valley/D1AA. UND needs to pay its football coaches a little bit more to attract that type of coach that is going to take us to the next level. 

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, siouxkid12 said:

McGarry can pound sand too. This notion that we (UND) need to bend over backwards for her at every corner is exhausting and I for one can't wait until the Ralph is officially UND's. 

100% agree with you here. She does not represent "the hand that feeds us"; she is siphoning off money that could be used to help UND athletics as a whole. Also, it was RALPH Engelstad who built the arena, not his daughter. The idea that we have to find another $100 million donor for FB and whatever else is the wrong approach. Smaller donations from a larger pool of alumni would be a much better approach to fundraising.