Future of the UND Football Program

[nodak651]

50 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

If NDSU had just finished 5-6 the way UND did, would Entz still have a job?  I doubt it.  Collectively, our expectations stink as do our results.

No, but if they cut the annual pay of their coaching staff by $700,000 and cut their recruiting budget in half do you think they would expect the same results?

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

No, but if they cut the annual pay of their coaching staff by $700,000 and cut their recruiting budget in half do you think they would expect the same results?

Yes.

[iramurphy]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

If NDSU had just finished 5-6 the way UND did, would Entz still have a job?  I doubt it.  Collectively, our expectations stink as do our results.

Of course he would still have a job. They were undefeated National Champs in 2019. Last year gets a pass. One year (even 5-6 ) wouldn’t be enough for them to buy out his remaining contract. The Bison social media warriors would be calling for his head but they don’t drive decisions just like our social media warriors don’t drive our decisions. I understand there are fans who think we need a change. 
Others  make a valid point about resources/salaries. It is a factor. We have a recent Big Sky Championship and a MVFC Championship in the last 4-5 yrs. We need to continue to get better. I wish it were faster but I can see progress. Anyone who thinks because some people don’t want to fire coaches right now, that they are satisfied being average,have no clue. I would wonder if they have ever tried to rebuild a program, much less even coach. Those who want to change coaches but can understand different opinions without moronic judgements about what we are satisfied with, may be right and we may be wrong. It certainly isn’t that the internet warriors are “winners” and those who don’t agree with them are satisfied with mediocrity.  I understand frustration with lack of success with our favorite sports teams. If anyone thinks they have the answers, I believe I can arrange a meeting with the decision makers. But bring your checkbook and be prepared to back up the big talk with at substantial 8 figure check. That will help with Phase 2 and help buy out contracts and hire coaches with salaries of 50% more than we are paying. I don’t have the answers and I’m not going to donate $1million so I can’t move things along any faster. I will continue to support the coaches and players we have now and in the future with the goal of being a national champion and sustaining that level of play season after season. I don’t care what happens at NDSU except when we are playing them. I’m sitting at airport with delayed/canceled flights so I can say dumb stuff all night. Happy New Year. 

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Yes.

You are insane if you believe that. You don’t become elite by paying bottom to average salaries. If NDSU cut their coaches salaries in half they would still be able to ride the coat tails of their past success but there is no way they would retain their elite coaching. Entz and Roehl are no where near the caliber of coach that program had in the past and are still paid that much……

[UND1983]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Yes.

Lmfao

[Mama Sue]

10 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Lmfao

Those coaches would leave JuiceU so fast….these schools are Latin big time coaches big time money WITH “other compensation” in the contract. Plus the whole NIL benefits coaches too… throw in the coaching clinic circuit and LOTS of cash.

[Hawkster]

5 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

If NDSU had just finished 5-6 the way UND did, would Entz still have a job?  I doubt it.  Collectively, our expectations stink as do our results.

The Bison had some very good teams all through their transition and then had a few really bad years when they first joined the Mo Valley.   All through those poor years Bohl survived and I'm not sure if he was even under a lot of pressure.   Granted, they didn't have the history then that they have now, but I have a feeling their AD might have more tolerance than you think he has.   Now the fans, that's a different story.   I'm sure they'd fire the entire coaching staff.

[Midwestern Hawk]

2 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

You are insane if you believe that. You don’t become elite by paying bottom to average salaries. If NDSU cut their coaches salaries in half they would still be able to ride the coat tails of their past success but there is no way they would retain their elite coaching. Entz and Roehl are no where near the caliber of coach that program had in the past and are still paid that much……

That terrible coach (Entz) is on the cusp of his 2nd national championship in 3 tries.  Some of you have so many excuses.  

[SiouxFan100]

Ya but what has su done lately?

[shep]

50 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

That terrible coach (Entz) is on the cusp of his 2nd national championship in 3 tries.  Some of you have so many excuses.  

Yes...if a "terrible coach" can do that, well...ummm...he's not terrible.

[SiouxFan100]

Of course money talks

give out a $10 million salary and we would get interest in a coach 

[Nodak78]

5 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Yes.

And Midwestern Bison replied

[SiouxFan100]

11 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

And Midwestern Bison replied

Not fair

[Midwestern Hawk]

55 minutes ago, shep said:

Yes...if a "terrible coach" can do that, well...ummm...he's not terrible.

It was sarcasm . Obviously Entz can coach.

[Nodak78]

29 minutes ago, SiouxFan100 said:

Not fair

Anyone that negative can't be a Hawk.

[Shawn-O]

5 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Of course he would still have a job. They were undefeated National Champs in 2019. Last year gets a pass. One year (even 5-6 ) wouldn’t be enough for them to buy out his remaining contract. The Bison social media warriors would be calling for his head but they don’t drive decisions just like our social media warriors don’t drive our decisions. I understand there are fans who think we need a change. 
Others  make a valid point about resources/salaries. It is a factor. We have a recent Big Sky Championship and a MVFC Championship in the last 4-5 yrs. We need to continue to get better. I wish it were faster but I can see progress. Anyone who thinks because some people don’t want to fire coaches right now, that they are satisfied being average,have no clue. I would wonder if they have ever tried to rebuild a program, much less even coach. Those who want to change coaches but can understand different opinions without moronic judgements about what we are satisfied with, may be right and we may be wrong. It certainly isn’t that the internet warriors are “winners” and those who don’t agree with them are satisfied with mediocrity.  I understand frustration with lack of success with our favorite sports teams. If anyone thinks they have the answers, I believe I can arrange a meeting with the decision makers. But bring your checkbook and be prepared to back up the big talk with at substantial 8 figure check. That will help with Phase 2 and help buy out contracts and hire coaches with salaries of 50% more than we are paying. I don’t have the answers and I’m not going to donate $1million so I can’t move things along any faster. I will continue to support the coaches and players we have now and in the future with the goal of being a national champion and sustaining that level of play season after season. I don’t care what happens at NDSU except when we are playing them. I’m sitting at airport with delayed/canceled flights so I can say dumb stuff all night. Happy New Year. 

I have good news and bad news. Good news is I’m prepared to write that 8 figure check. The bad news is four of the figures will be to the right of the decimal point.  

[iramurphy]

57 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

It was sarcasm . Obviously Entz can coach.

That is why they wouldn’t fire him had they gone 5-6 this year. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

13 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

You are insane if you believe that. You don’t become elite by paying bottom to average salaries. If NDSU cut their coaches salaries in half they would still be able to ride the coat tails of their past success but there is no way they would retain their elite coaching. Entz and Roehl are no where near the caliber of coach that program had in the past and are still paid that much……

Those salaries are paid because NDSU is elite.  You don’t think the national championships earned over the last decade have anything to do with the differences in wages?  Put another way, do you think Bubba and his staff would be paid more if they had won 6 national championships during his 8 years?

Some of you have so many excuses, it’s frightening.  

[Oxbow6]

UND's next game.....8 months.

NDSU's next game...8 days.

[Midwestern Hawk]

14 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

You are insane if you believe that. You don’t become elite by paying bottom to average salaries. If NDSU cut their coaches salaries in half they would still be able to ride the coat tails of their past success but there is no way they would retain their elite coaching. Entz and Roehl are no where near the caliber of coach that program had in the past and are still paid that much……

Some guys are elite coaches, some guys are good coaches, some guys are average coaches, some guys are bad coaches.  Usually the pay follows fairly closely behind the results.

[Mama Sue]

55 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Some guys are elite coaches, some guys are good coaches, some guys are average coaches, some guys are bad coaches.  Usually the pay follows fairly closely behind the results.

Nothing in life is that simple…. More like opportunity, political BS, and the “culture” of the team/school. Then you get to results and pay. Even with no immediate results…coaches are retained if the first three are going good. The GOBC controls the purse strings in many situations, IMHO. It is much more complicated…..everything is.

[Midwestern Hawk]

14 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Of course he would still have a job. They were undefeated National Champs in 2019. Last year gets a pass. One year (even 5-6 ) wouldn’t be enough for them to buy out his remaining contract. The Bison social media warriors would be calling for his head but they don’t drive decisions just like our social media warriors don’t drive our decisions. I understand there are fans who think we need a change. 
Others  make a valid point about resources/salaries. It is a factor. We have a recent Big Sky Championship and a MVFC Championship in the last 4-5 yrs. We need to continue to get better. I wish it were faster but I can see progress. Anyone who thinks because some people don’t want to fire coaches right now, that they are satisfied being average,have no clue. I would wonder if they have ever tried to rebuild a program, much less even coach. Those who want to change coaches but can understand different opinions without moronic judgements about what we are satisfied with, may be right and we may be wrong. It certainly isn’t that the internet warriors are “winners” and those who don’t agree with them are satisfied with mediocrity.  I understand frustration with lack of success with our favorite sports teams. If anyone thinks they have the answers, I believe I can arrange a meeting with the decision makers. But bring your checkbook and be prepared to back up the big talk with at substantial 8 figure check. That will help with Phase 2 and help buy out contracts and hire coaches with salaries of 50% more than we are paying. I don’t have the answers and I’m not going to donate $1million so I can’t move things along any faster. I will continue to support the coaches and players we have now and in the future with the goal of being a national champion and sustaining that level of play season after season. I don’t care what happens at NDSU except when we are playing them. I’m sitting at airport with delayed/canceled flights so I can say dumb stuff all night. Happy New Year. 

You have many valid thoughts.  You are likely correct on Entz, however if Entz's spring quarterfinal run included a loss to UND and he had finished 5-6 this fall including a 2nd loss to UND, I think Entz would be gone.  Obviously that is just surmising as he beat us twice in 2021 and it appears will lead the Bison to a 2nd natty in 3 years.

I too have witnessed signs of progress over the years with Bubba especially with recruiting and IMO everything was lined up for UND this fall.  I love UND football and I am sincerely afraid Bubba's pinnacle as coach at UND will be having the lead at halftime this fall against NDSU.  The season(and likely his tenure) certainly slid backwards from that moment both literally and figuratively.  

I don't see many ways the fall of 2022 will turn out any better than 2021, too many holes to fill and too many weaknesses were exposed this fall.   I sincerely hope all of you are reposting these gloomy forecasts a year from now and throwing it in my face as we all are buying tickets to Frisco, but I have "been around the block" a time or two in football and business and the chances of a "breakout" season are not good without a major change in the program.

[Hawkster]

2 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

You have many valid thoughts.  You are likely correct on Entz, however if Entz's spring quarterfinal run included a loss to UND and he had finished 5-6 this fall including a 2nd loss to UND, I think Entz would be gone.  Obviously that is just surmising as he beat us twice in 2021 and it appears will lead the Bison to a 2nd natty in 3 years.

I too have witnessed signs of progress over the years with Bubba especially with recruiting and IMO everything was lined up for UND this fall.  I love UND football and I am sincerely afraid Bubba's pinnacle as coach at UND will be having the lead at halftime this fall against NDSU.  The season(and likely his tenure) certainly slid backwards from that moment both literally and figuratively.  

I don't see many ways the fall of 2022 will turn out any better than 2021, too many holes to fill and too many weaknesses were exposed this fall.   I sincerely hope all of you are reposting these gloomy forecasts a year from now and throwing it in my face as we all are buying tickets to Frisco, but I have "been around the block" a time or two in football and business and the chances of a "breakout" season are not good without a major change in the program.

I doubt the Bison would fire Entz under your scenario.   The spring covid season didn't count in the minds of many and having a bad fall 2021 season alone wouldn't have been enough.    Things would have to roll into '22 before heads would fly.   Replacing a coach always sets a team further back so AD's are reluctant to do it.

[Irish]

Would more money for the Football program help - absolutely.  No Question.  I have no insight into the Athletic Department budgeting process, but it seems that there are two main ways for Football to get more money - a rich donor (or many semi-rich donors) or sell more tickets.  Since no deep pockets alumni seem to be stepping up we need more butts in the seats. Look at our attendance after the Bison fiasco - we have been on the cusp of capturing many more fans many times recently but it always seems to slip away - mainly because watching our team for the the last 14 years has been by and large a frustrating experience - first 6 years of Muss - then 6 years of watching Rudy call the plays - then this year. (I'm not saying there haven't been high spots, but not sustainable). If you don't think a winning program brings in more fans, look at Hockey during the last few years of Gino.  Winning begats more money which in turn begats more winning.  We seriously need more money in the program, but I'm not so sure that some donors worry that a richer Bubba for the next couple of years is the way to go.  

[Midwestern Hawk]

17 minutes ago, Irish said:

Would more money for the Football program help - absolutely.  No Question.  I have no insight into the Athletic Department budgeting process, but it seems that there are two main ways for Football to get more money - a rich donor (or many semi-rich donors) or sell more tickets.  Since no deep pockets alumni seem to be stepping up we need more butts in the seats. Look at our attendance after the Bison fiasco - we have been on the cusp of capturing many more fans many times recently but it always seems to slip away - mainly because watching our team for the the last 14 years has been by and large a frustrating experience - first 6 years of Muss - then 6 years of watching Rudy call the plays - then this year. (I'm not saying there haven't been high spots, but not sustainable). If you don't think a winning program brings in more fans, look at Hockey during the last few years of Gino.  Winning begats more money which in turn begats more winning.  We seriously need more money in the program, but I'm not so sure that some donors worry that a richer Bubba for the next couple of years is the way to go.  

This is an absolute truth.