2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

[UNDlaw80]

3 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

The internet and social media with its dulling of humanity is the biggest threat we face.  More so than an antifa protest.  Cancel culture and the willingness to “kill” a person online like you would kill a bot in a video game.  It’s so de-sensitized.  I’m waiting for a major lawsuit against a platform like Facebook for damages due to inciting a virtual mob.
 

The country is very much split, like 51/49.  It is incredibly important that the barely minority’s rights are protected, no matter what side they are on.  The framers were very concerned about this and built the government to prefer gridlock over trampling without a super majority.  
 

Using Executive orders, eliminating the filibuster, expanding the Supreme Court, eliminating the electoral college, adding senators...these things all are abuses (no matter what side) and are contrary to the goals of the framers.  
 

 

The biggest unintended consequences of the internet is it allows people the opportunity to marinate themselves in a political echo-chamber that just validates their pre-existing biases. 

Unlike in years past where people obtained info/news from the same sources, we no longer have a common starting point for disagreement.       

  

  

[Hayduke1]

12 minutes ago, homer said:

You haven’t bothered looking up Fauci’s history in masks? Come on.  

I concern myself on what he is saying now.  Science and statistics can be fluid.  It is obvious by the data and science we have now that facemasks, social distancing, cleaning of surfaces and washing hands are helping reduce the spread of Covid 19.  Now, we need a vaccine or preventative.  All we can do until then is try to slow it down. 

[yzerman19]

39 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

As it pertains to Covid?  Yea I agree.  Trump royally ****-ed up but I'm not confident the Democrats have the competency to do any better.   

As it pertains to race riots/violence?   Trump is part of the problem.  You know his game-plan is to fan the flames when he threatened to send the Feds into cities where there was little or no violence, nor federal buildings being harmed. 

But that's this Administration's shtick, it's predicated entirely on dividing this country.   I mean we're in historical times and, unlike any other President, not once has Trump articulated an all-encompassing collective unifying message to the nation.  He gets in front of a mic and spews personal grievances.  I suppose this appeals to some people.  Whatever.          

I will agree with you on being un-remorsefully divisive.  While it can be argued that W and Obama were also divisive, that was a result of policy rather than rhetoric.  
 

Trump might be the first President to ever take the rhetorical position of constituents over country.  Certainly policy has always favored constituents in political history, but the surrounding rhetoric was at least attempting to (if not unite) at least explain and attempt to convince.

 

[yzerman19]

Among McCain and Lewis’ collective eulogies as well as messages and appearances by Clinton, W, and Obama, I Have found myself nostalgic for a leader that at least on the surface appears to respect the office and speaks to and for all Americans.  
 

The thing is, I do favor many policy moves by Trump, but the why and how the message is delivered masks it over.

[bison73]

1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

How many police stops? Last year there was something like 200-300 million police stops. Only 1000 people lost their lives at the hands of police. 300 were black.  Whats the %.  Infinitesamal.

[yzerman19]

The immigration thing drives me bananas for example.  There is an incredibly compelling argument to:

1. Establish strong border security and control immigration.

2.  Devise a path to citizenship via public or military service for those here legally or illegally at a set point in time.

3.  Deport criminals and those unwilling to follow the path to citizenship.

4.  Effectively manage work and school visas also tied to paths to citizenship or deportation depending on choices.

 

[TheFlop]

1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

You are the one continually throwing out a claim and then dodging it when questioned.  You stated that left wing extremists groups had not killed anyone in recent history.  I threw out an example that instantly discredited your assertion.  

As to the number of people killed by police in 2020......that's a raw number.  You do realize that there are bad people in this world that sometimes give police no other option but to harm them?  Hiding behind a raw number like that is a lazy way of trying to make your point.  Research those cases and get back to us with how many of those deaths weren't justified.  Are there some?  Absolutely.  Are they a rather small amount?  Yep, and you know it.  

[UNDlaw80]

3 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Among McCain and Lewis’ collective eulogies as well as messages and appearances by Clinton, W, and Obama, I Have found myself nostalgic for a leader that at least on the surface appears to respect the office and speaks to and for all Americans.  
 

The thing is, I do favor many policy moves by Trump, but the why and how the message is delivered masks it over.

 

It certainly puts many traditional conservatives in a predicament come November.   Temporarily acquiesce to democratic policy in order to install some normalcy in the White House, or keep Trump in office and hope the country doesn't burn to the ground.  As we're seeing, many are jumping off the Trump train already.  McConnell has reportedly told governors to ditch Trump if it helps re-election chances.  How it all plays out, who knows.      

Either way, it should be interesting where the party goes post-Trump.     

[yzerman19]

2 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

It certainly puts many traditional conservatives in a predicament come November.   Temporarily acquiesce to democratic policy in order to install some normalcy in the White House, or keep Trump in office and hope the country doesn't burn to the ground.  As we're seeing, many are jumping off the Trump train already.  McConnell has reportedly told governors to ditch Trump if it helps re-election chances.  How it all plays out, who knows.      

Either way, it should be interesting where the party goes post-Trump.     

Why I really wanted Biden to go for the middle.

[UNDlaw80]

1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

The immigration thing drives me bananas for example.  There is an incredibly compelling argument to:

1. Establish strong border security and control immigration.

2.  Devise a path to citizenship via public or military service for those here legally or illegally at a set point in time.

3.  Deport criminals and those unwilling to follow the path to citizenship.

4.  Effectively manage work and school visas also tied to paths to citizenship or deportation depending on choices.

 

 

I've done immigration law.    Politicians talk a big 'we need to control our borders' game, but it's a scam.  All of it.  Both parties involved.  

Illegals drive the agriculture, dairy and canning industries.  Eliminate this cheap workforce and we're screwed.  Government agencies turn a blind eye to all of it.....human trafficking, H2A regulations never adhered to, fake social security cards, etc. etc.  It's a song and dance show.   

If we really wanted to quell illegal immigration, the answer is simple.  Crack down mercilessly on companies hiring illegals; make the risk not worth their while.  With no employment options available, it would cut illegal immigration by at least 90%, and for a fraction of the cost of building a wall.   But for obvious reasons this will never occur.         

 

[Oxbow6]

1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

I concern myself on what he is saying now.  Science and statistics can be fluid.  It is obvious by the data and science we have now that facemasks, social distancing, cleaning of surfaces and washing hands are helping reduce the spread of Covid 19.  Now, we need a vaccine or preventative.  All we can do until then is try to slow it down. 

Saying now? Versus 3 or 4 months ago? How's the "science" of transmission changed from day 1 for Covid19? How's the science of transmission for TB changed in decades? Influenza? Basically identical in transmission for all three. 1.5M die annually worldwide from TB. 10M infected.  Again I'm not anti mask but are mask only valuable in preventing  transmission of Covid19? Why not recommended for TB or influenza over the years? Do we count TB cases? Flu cases? Are we going to quarantine all those who have a postive influenza test starting this late fall?  Closes businesses? Schools?

[Hayduke1]

1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

The immigration thing drives me bananas for example.  There is an incredibly compelling argument to:

1. Establish strong border security and control immigration.

2.  Devise a path to citizenship via public or military service for those here legally or illegally at a set point in time.

3.  Deport criminals and those unwilling to follow the path to citizenship.

4.  Effectively manage work and school visas also tied to paths to citizenship or deportation depending on choices.

 

Goodness.

 

I agree with you.

I have to wash my hands now.

[Oxbow6]

"Trust the experts".........

Seems Pelosi not buying it. Said she has "no confidence" in Dr. Birx and also said Birx was "the worst". Pelosi has hailed Fauci a "hero".

 

Again Pelosi is the one that said the "greatest risk" to the spread of Covid moving forward is sending kids back to school.

If only Dr. Birx could throw a pitch more than 6' off the plate.......

[yzerman19]

1 hour ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

I've done immigration law.    Politicians talk a big 'we need to control our borders' game, but it's a scam.  All of it.  Both parties involved.  

Illegals drive the agriculture, dairy and canning industries.  Eliminate this cheap workforce and we're screwed.  Government agencies turn a blind eye to all of it.....human trafficking, H2A regulations never adhered to, fake social security cards, etc. etc.  It's a song and dance show.   

If we really wanted to quell illegal immigration, the answer is simple.  Crack down mercilessly on companies hiring illegals; make the risk not worth their while.  With no employment options available, it would cut illegal immigration by at least 90%, and for a fraction of the cost of building a wall.   But for obvious reasons this will never occur.         

 

Brother I’m in CA...half the economy is fully dependent on undocumented workers. 

[Bison Dan]

2 hours ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

Speaking of Reagan, he'd be considered a leftist 'never Trumper' in today's political climate.    

Reagan Foundation recently went as far as to tell the RNC to stop using his likeness next to Trump. 

BS - There's not a dimes worth of difference between them policy wise.  Reagan was a way better politician, Thump is a cut to the chase and direct speaker which lib's can't stand.  The hate is so thick on the left it's irrational.  

[Sioux>Bison]

16 hours ago, Hayduke1 said:

Five were killed. In 2016. 

But, what's I am seeing is BLM and Antifa living rent free in your head. 

In spite of way, way more evidence of atrocities carried out against left leaning groups and many times by the police, you cling onto those other situations that happened much more infrequently. 

The facts are there. But, you choose to ignore them.  Fake news in your minds because of your zombie like loyalty to an orange fool who cares nothing about any of us much less our country.  He does like to lie and line his pockets.  Maybe that's why he attracts the minority of folks like you? 

You would love some kind of revenge, wouldn't you?  Is that it?  You know, act out some perverse fantasy agsinst BLM or Antifa for your buddies in the sewing circle?

It would be laughable if it wasnt so pathetic. 

Well, have fun in your fantasy world.  Maybe you'll see more videos and dream of shooting a water cannon at citizens or doing something even worse?

George Floyd died because a cop, while being on video, laughed while putting his boot on his neck until he died.  You apparently don"t give a shi$.  You just wonder why these BLM people and others finally got fed up and are saying enough is enough.  

Maybe if you at least studied root cause analysis you might figure out why the streets have been filled with protesters.  But, I doubt that would happen.

Btw, the macho bull&#036 routine doesn't work on me either. Lol

Hands up, Don’t shoot ........ never happened

Maybe there would be credibility of BLM if they didn’t spread lies and mistruths......

[SiouxBoys]

1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

"Trust the experts".........

Seems Pelosi not buying it. Said she has "no confidence" in Dr. Birx and also said Birx was "the worst". Pelosi has hailed Fauci a "hero".

 

Again Pelosi is the one that said the "greatest risk" to the spread of Covid moving forward is sending kids back to school.

If only Dr. Birx could throw a pitch more than 6' off the plate.......

I think it's an attack on women. Shameful, really.

[Sioux>Bison]

3 hours ago, Hayduke1 said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

That’s nothing. Most of them deserved to die. How many were unjustified??? There are bigger problems in the black community and until they are addressed nothing will improve....

[sioux rube]

The Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) told residents they should “be prepared” to hand over their phones, wallets, and purses to robbers.

The MPD has reported a 46 percent increase in carjackings and a 36 percent increase in robberies compared to this same time last year, according to WCCO.

Police in the city’s Third Precinct alone have received more than 100 reports of robberies and 20 reports of carjackings in just the last month.

Officials are now telling residents to be ready and willing to comply with the demands of criminals in an email sent to Third Precinct residents.

 

https://alphanewsmn.com/minneapolis-police-tell-residents-to-obey-criminals-and-be-prepared-to-be-robbed/

[UNDlaw80]

26 minutes ago, Bison Dan said:

BS - There's not a dimes worth of difference between them policy wise.  Reagan was a way better politician, Thump is a cut to the chase and direct speaker which lib's can't stand.  The hate is so thick on the left it's irrational.  

 

Many of Trump and Reagan’s economic philosophies are similar.  But foreign policy?  Couldn't be further apart.  Free trade?  Not similar in any capacity.  Immigration?  Reagan actually enacted several pieces of legislation promoting the rights of illegals; one of which was granting amnesty to every illegal in the country previous to 1982.  

 

'Not a dimes worth of difference'?  Yea ok champ.    

 

 

[Nodak78]

2 hours ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

I've done immigration law.    Politicians talk a big 'we need to control our borders' game, but it's a scam.  All of it.  Both parties involved.  

Illegals drive the agriculture, dairy and canning industries.  Eliminate this cheap workforce and we're screwed.  Government agencies turn a blind eye to all of it.....human trafficking, H2A regulations never adhered to, fake social security cards, etc. etc.  It's a song and dance show.   

If we really wanted to quell illegal immigration, the answer is simple.  Crack down mercilessly on companies hiring illegals; make the risk not worth their while.  With no employment options available, it would cut illegal immigration by at least 90%, and for a fraction of the cost of building a wall.   But for obvious reasons this will never occur.         

 

That is why Trump was elected.  He is the only one working to close the borders and make it legal.  Dems want illegals for votes and cheap labor.  Rep. Want cheap labor.  Much of the labor can be replaced with technology or higher wages.  Just make immigration LEGAL.  Or work permits.  Both Dems and Reps. Are fighting Trump.

[Nodak78]

21 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

Many of Trump and Reagan’s economic philosophies are similar.  But foreign policy?  Couldn't be further apart.  Free trade?  Not similar in any capacity.  Immigration?  Reagan actually enacted several pieces of legislation promoting the rights of illegals; one of which was granting amnesty to every illegal in the country previous to 1982.  

 

'Not a dimes worth of difference'?  Yea ok champ.    

 

 

Reagan signed the bill and was told immigration would be brought under control. Again Dems for votes and chamber of Commerce(both dens and reps) supported illegal immigration.

[Nodak78]

28 minutes ago, sioux rube said:

The Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) told residents they should “be prepared” to hand over their phones, wallets, and purses to robbers.

The MPD has reported a 46 percent increase in carjackings and a 36 percent increase in robberies compared to this same time last year, according to WCCO.

Police in the city’s Third Precinct alone have received more than 100 reports of robberies and 20 reports of carjackings in just the last month.

Officials are now telling residents to be ready and willing to comply with the demands of criminals in an email sent to Third Precinct residents.

 

https://alphanewsmn.com/minneapolis-police-tell-residents-to-obey-criminals-and-be-prepared-to-be-robbed/

Mpls is toast.  Business and individuals will be leaving Mpls.

[UNDlaw80]

5 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

That is why Trump was elected.  He is the only one working to close the borders and make it legal.  Dems want illegals for votes and cheap labor.  Rep. Want cheap labor.  Much of the labor can be replaced with technology or higher wages.  Just make immigration LEGAL.  Or work permits.  Both Dems and Reps. Are fighting Trump.

 

Nope.   Trump talks a good game (i.e. illegals used as a scapegoat) but he's utterly complicit as it pertains to illegals in this country.  Notice how, even with sky-high unemployment, Trump expanded the H2A program (which is absurdly easy for mexican nationals and their employers to abuse).  In fact, the Trump Admin enacted legislation that made it easier for employers to fire domestic workers in favor of H2A workers.  

At the end of the day it's all about the economy.  You're buying the BS hook line and sinker.  

   

[UNDlaw80]

57 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

Reagan signed the bill and was told immigration would be brought under control. Again Dems for votes and chamber of Commerce(both dens and reps) supported illegal immigration.

 

What are you talking about?  Reagan supported the bill completely.   What I described was the back-end of that legislation that made hiring illegals non-legal.  But like I said earlier, this stuff is never ever enforced.....and for obvious economic reasons. You think Reagan was oblivious to this? Yea right.   It was a smart political move for him,  but, in practice, it was a giant gift to illegals.