2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

[homer]

13 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

The FDA has no political motivation.

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19

So the lady in the article I quoted is lying about it helping her particular case? 

[UND1983]

5 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

FDA has no political agenda? You clearly don’t follow the pharmaceutical industry closely.

9 out of the last 10 FDA commissioners have left that position to sit as board members for pharmaceutical companies. The FDA is so deep in bed with the pharma industry, they might as well be the same entity.

It's a tragedy what those two have done to America when it comes to mental illness, depression, etc.  

[Hayduke1]

Just now, homer said:

So the lady in the article I quoted is lying about it helping her particular case? 

If she got well, it likely wasn't because of that particular drug. 

[Hayduke1]

18 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

FDA has no political agenda? You clearly don’t follow the pharmaceutical industry closely.

9 out of the last 10 FDA commissioners have left that position to sit as board members for pharmaceutical companies. The FDA is so deep in bed with the pharma industry, they might as well be the same entity.

While the current president pressed that drug for nonpolitical reasons whatsoever?  Trump is desperate for something to save his ass in this election.

I agree that they are tied together, but it is for $$$.  Which is definately a motivation for many to get into politics. 

But, studies have shown no use for this drug to help with Covid-19.  If anything, you would think that Trump would find a way for the studies to prove otherwise.  Or for these companies to find a study that would prove otherwise.  

 

[Bison06]

4 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

While the current president pressed that drug for nonpolitical reasons whatsoever?  Trump is desperate for something to save his ass in this election.

I agree that they are tied together, but it is for $$$.  Which is definately a motivation for many to get into politics. 

But, studies have shown no use for this drug to help with Covid-19.  If anything, you would think that Trump would find a way for the studies to prove otherwise.  

 

Clinician anecdotes can be just as powerful in driving treatment protocols as research. In fact, that is often how new off label therapies are discovered. 
People tend to hold up research as the only way medicine moves forward, but anyone in that world will tell you that clinical experiences are just as important.

[sioux rube]

Seems to be going real peachy in the cities 

 

Minneapolis Downtown Council: ‘Defund The Police’ Rhetoric Killing Deals

Business group says 45 companies have crossed Minneapolis off search list or are looking to leave downtown. 
 

https://tcbmag.com/minneapolis-downtown-council-defund-the-police-rhetoric-killing-deals/

[homer]

15 minutes ago, sioux rube said:

Seems to be going real peachy in the cities 

 

Minneapolis Downtown Council: ‘Defund The Police’ Rhetoric Killing Deals

Business group says 45 companies have crossed Minneapolis off search list or are looking to leave downtown. 
 

https://tcbmag.com/minneapolis-downtown-council-defund-the-police-rhetoric-killing-deals/

But there is no way this swings any voters that currently support D’s and are on the fence right Hayduke?  

When is Biden coming out with a clear stance on being for defunding the police or against it?  Debates should clear that up. 

[Goon]

This video knocks it out of the park. 

[Hayduke1]

53 minutes ago, homer said:

But there is no way this swings any voters that currently support D’s and are on the fence right Hayduke?  

When is Biden coming out with a clear stance on being for defunding the police or against it?  Debates should clear that up. 

Buden has already said he is not in favor of defunding police departments. 

Somehow, the Trump lies stick with you.  

[Taz Boy]

To cleanse this thread, here is a public service announcement from Taz Boy.  More of a homework assignment for the few of you that have some level of objectivity and intellect (you know who you are).  You'll need to suspend your political bias and just be curious, which for most anti-Trump "blue wave" types I know is impossible.  We get it, y'all want him to die of COVID or an HCL overdose.  Sheesh.  Just go vote for the pre-dementia, basement dwelling lifer politician that doesn't know the difference between his wife and sister.  Relax.  Here we go...

Go to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Sort the table "Reported Cases and Deaths by Country, Territory, or Conveyance" by Deaths/1M pop, highest to lowest.  Forget about San Marino, it's too small to be statistically meaningful.  Also, forget about #cases, #tests, etc as those are just game stats.  Loss of precious life is the metric, the scoreboard for humanity if you will.  In this sorted list, locate countries alleged to be "surging" by the MSM such as Columbia, Japan, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Hong Kong and compare them to the most well known previous hot spots like Western/South Central Europe (Italy, Spain, UK...).  While you are at it, look at the details of Sweden and compare to other peer countries.  Sweden did not lock down.  Higher death/1M but, not an outlier.

Now do this with the US States.  Note the deaths/1M for New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Louisiana and compare that to the alleged "surging" Florida, Texas, Arizona, and California.  Also, compare New York et al with any other country on earth and maybe ask yourself if the counts are accurate, then what kind of third world medicine is being practiced there?  Really dig further and see if accelerated exponential growth is evident in these southern states, or if it's just the natural course of viral infection having been delayed by normal seasonality along with decreased mobility, and if in fact Arizona is actually now in decline, because it is, as will be the others.

You cannot look at the US as a whole, just as you cannot look at the earth as a whole.  Look at population centers and understand how this thing moves, large population centers will all get their turn, tragically.  I fear for New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan.  There's no true second wave until you see New York, Sweden, or UK ramp back up again.  I sure hope that doesn't happen.  There are many arguments suggesting it will not, most notably history.  Go read up on Herd Immunity Threshold and what the real numbers actually might be based on other similar epidemics, the transmittance and susceptibility of coronaviruses.  Learn about T-cell immunity.  If you think >70% need to be infected, you are watching MSNBC too much.

Note that I only provided one link, worldometer.  I have many sources, and a few favorites.  But, go find your own and avoid anything that uses alarmism words like "surging" "catastrophic" "overrun" and all of the rest of that clickbait fear porn.

Based on what I've read, do I think this is a dangerous virus?  Yes, especially for the elderly >75, it appears to be significantly worse than the flu.  Keep them safe and away from any NYC hospital.  If you are >40, looks like you need to worry about heart disease and cancer along with COVID and can benefit by keeping in shape.  If you are under 40 you should be more worried about influenza or a car accident.  If you are under 20 and not destroying your lungs with vape juice, then bathtub drowning is more likely (especially you drunk fraternity pricks).  I encourage you to enjoy your young lives, be mindful of the vulnerable, and be confident that this too will pass.  Likely the first Wed in November.

taz

 

 

 

[Nodak78]

 

[Hayduke1]

59 minutes ago, Taz Boy said:

More of a homework assignment for the few of you that have some level of objectivity and intellect (you know who you are).  You'll need to suspend your political bias and just be curious, which for most anti-Trump "blue wave" types I know is impossible.  We get it, y'all want him to die of COVID or an HCL overdose.  Sheesh.  Just go vote for the pre-dementia, basement dwelling lifer politician that doesn't know the difference between his wife and sister. 

Well, that sure gives progressives an incentive and also proves your assignment has no bias whatsoever.  

Guess what?  It also affects its credibility. 

What's our next assignment?  Should we read Art of the Deal or Mein Kampf?

[homer]

54 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Buden has already said he is not in favor of defunding police departments. 

Somehow, the Trump lies stick with you.  

News to me.  He gave the political answer or he was just confused.  This is from CNN fact check just to clarify   

Facts First: Biden explicitly told Barkan that he opposes defunding or abolishing the police; this comment was omitted from the video. Biden did say he "absolutely" agrees that some funding can be redirected, but it was not exactly clear what he meant -- and he immediately transitioned to his previous proposal to deny federal funding to specific police departments that do not meet certain standards. Contrary to suggestions of a recent flip-flop, Biden said in early June that it makes sense for some local communities to reduce police funding.

[Hayduke1]

Just now, homer said:

News to me.  He gave the political answer or he was just confused.  This is from CNN fact check just to clarify   

Facts First: Biden explicitly told Barkan that he opposes defunding or abolishing the police; this comment was omitted from the video. Biden did say he "absolutely" agrees that some funding can be redirected, but it was not exactly clear what he meant -- and he immediately transitioned to his previous proposal to deny federal funding to specific police departments that do not meet certain standards. Contrary to suggestions of a recent flip-flop, Biden said in early June that it makes sense for some local communities to reduce police funding.

Reducing funding isn't the same as defunding.  

The general idea is to have some other services take over what many police departments struggle doing.  Mental health awareness, some domestic quarrels, etc.   We need police, no doubt.  But, we need them trained to do their function of protecting and serving the public.  I think they are stretched too thin to handle every situation thrown at them. 

[Kab]

Biden was for police before he was for defunding police before he changed his answer on defunding police.

depends on what city he is in and if he actually knows what city he is in 

[Taz Boy]

29 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Well, that sure gives progressives an incentive and also proves your assignment has no bias whatsoever.  

Guess what?  It also affects its credibility. 

What's our next assignment?  Should we read Art of the Deal or Mein Kampf?

I've read your content on this forum.  I'm fine if you block or ignore mine.  Enjoy.

taz

[UNDBIZ]

27 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Reducing funding isn't the same as defunding.  

That's not what social media and left of center media are saying.

[homer]

7 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

That's not what social media and left of center media are saying.

That was my thought.  Democrats probably want to do a better job explaining that.  Also, good luck separating that movement from Biden.  He will have to take a solid stance and explain clearly at some point when they let him out of the basement.  

Trump is doing a good job painting him in the corner on this one.  

[Hayduke1]

5 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

That's not what social media and left of center media are saying.

It is not a good idea to defund.  Not just politically, but towns/cities need police protection. no argument there.  

I can see movement of some services police have been providing to other agencies.  

There is a lot of frustration with law enforcement in our country.  BLM is not alone in this frustration.  Out of this frustration the cry to defund entire police departments has risen.  That is pretty reactionary, even in my opinion. 

Police departments would do well to openly address and discuss their problems before any defunding proposals take hold.  

I think they have failed up to this point.  Hopefully things will cool down soon and these discussions can happen. 

[UNDBIZ]

Just now, Hayduke1 said:

It is not a good idea to defund.  Not just politically, but towns/cities need police protection. no argument there.  

I can see movement of some services police have been providing to other agencies.  

There is a lot of frustration with law enforcement in our country.  BLM is not alone in this frustration.  Out of this frustration the cry to defund entire police departments has risen.  That is pretty reactionary, even in my opinion. 

Police departments would do well to openly address and discuss their problems before any defunding proposals take hold.  

I think they have failed up to this point.  Hopefully things will cool down soon and these discussions can happen. 

I agree with the calls to reallocate a portion of funding for more appropriate services and to not send police on certain non-criminal calls. The police would probably be happy to avoid those calls too.  "Defund the police" was a bad slogan to latch onto for most of the mainstream dems and now they're spending time having to defend it.  But again, some people truly do want the police defunded and law enforcement abolished.  For some reason the mainstream dems don't condemn those statements though.

[Hayduke1]

10 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

"Defund the police" was a bad slogan to latch onto for most of the mainstream dems and now they're spending time having to defend it.  But again, some people truly do want the police defunded and law enforcement abolished.  For some reason the mainstream dems don't condemn those statements though.

I actually agree.  I think mainstream Democrats havent loudly vocalized opposition enough.  They could do this by presenting alternate plans with some services moved away from the police. 

[SWSiouxMN]

St. Paul Saints are allow fans back at CHS field starting August 4th. 

[bison73]

15 hours ago, Hayduke1 said:

Okay, then...

Now thats funny!!!!!

[UNDBIZ]

Placing this in the dumpster fire thread for multiple reasons....

 

[bison73]

17 hours ago, mikejm said:

Really?

You're advocating lethal measures? No arrest, no investigation, no trial. Just put a bullet in them?

Bet it would stop those idiots trying to blind the LEO.