UND- NDSU GDT 9/7/2019

[rover]

This is off the subject

but why the hell would you schedule Oklahoma?

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 minute ago, rover said:

This is off the subject

but why the hell would you schedule Oklahoma?

A team which was pummeled by Montana last Saturday.

[SWSiouxMN]

1 minute ago, rover said:

This is off the subject

but why the hell would you schedule Oklahoma?

must be one big $$$$$$$$$$$$$

[surewhynot]

4 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Another clown starting an account just to say that.  

You said "Go look it up dork" (in regards to how mighty UND is against MVFC)

So, facts have been presented to you, and now you look like Bubba when he plays an actual football team...confused

 

[northernraider]

I'm not native to North Dakota so not familiar with all the history between UND and NDSU. As I understand it, during D2 days both teams were competitive, often switching dominance every few of years. However since  the move up to FCS, NDSU has basically become king. 

My question is how did this happen? Was it because NDSU went D1 first? Did Mussman hold us back? Focus on football over hockey at UND? None or all the above?

[SteppenHawk]

The answer you seek is called leadership.

[Wilbur]

1 hour ago, Rory said:

Yet another ass kicking 

Was it your mom or dad?

You were told to clean the basement. 

 

[fightingsioux4life]

3 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

This game was a huge measuring stick for where we are and we didn’t measure up. We aren’t a complete team right now offensively, defensively or special teams. I doubt your disappointment and concern is greater than mine or others. I thought we could be more competitive by now but today’s game is over. We need to focus on the upcoming game and we need to improve in a number of areas. We all have our own style and manner which if different than yours is not indicative of complacency. We aren’t going to make coaching changes before the end of the season so, to me, that discussion is fruitless unless I’m speaking to the decision makers. In the meantime, these coaches have my full support until they resign or until the end of the season whichever comes first. The Bison are pretty good right now.  Unless we improve each week we are mediocre at best. I expect us to improve each week. If we don’t, you will need to stand in line to demand changes. My friends, alumni that I know, and former players expect excellence. I can’t play anymore, I can’t coach anymore, so until the time is right I can keep attending games, donating what I can and offer my support.  These coaches are subject to the measuring stick I have applied to subordinate staff in the past. Are we better off with them or without them?  That question must be answered at the end of each season. Until then, Go Hawks. 

And how many mediocre and disappointing seasons do we have to have before something is done about it? The question never ends up getting answered after the season is over because nobody wants to acknowledge the 800 pound gorilla in the room. This is the sort of "Aw, shucks, nothing we can do about it, everything is fine the way it is, let's move on" mentality that I have noticed seep into the administration and athletic department over the past 10-12 years. We have had rudderless leadership from UND's administration for such a long time I forget what strong leadership looks and feels like. And a look at the state of our programs gives you an idea of the consequences of that thinking.

We don't have Phase II of the HPC. We have 80 year old FB locker rooms and facilities in Memorial Stadium which even a good Division II program would be embarrassed to have. And on top of that, 52% of FB revenues get skimmed off the top by REA, Inc. And then people have the unmitigated gall to say the FB program should just "pull itself up by its bootstraps". Never mind that the bootstraps are old and worn out and haven't been up to code since about 2005. We are just supposed to pretend that all is well and not worry about it.

When we made this move to Division I, we should have known it would cost a lot more money to put competitive teams on the field/court. It would take more fundraising and more thinking outside the box to fund more scholarships, new and/or upgraded facilities and a new athletic department wide attitude towards making all our programs successful. But we haven't done those things. We still try to fund our athletic department with season tickets, Champions Club memberships and 50/50 raffles. A Division II funding model won't work anymore. We aren't playing the likes of Augustana, Winona State or UM-Crookston anymore.

I do think Chaves has the potential to help turn things around (his MBB hire showed the creativity and outside-the-box thinking that Tom Buning and Brian Faison were incapable of). But we do need to hire a strong UND President to clean up the mess Kennedy left behind in so many areas of campus. And one of those messes is the athletic department, which, with the exception of volleyball, has produced average at best teams over the past several years.

It all starts at the top. And we have been lacking in that area for a long time.

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 hour ago, oldage said:

It is the first year for this offense using players recruited for another offense.  You expect instant transformation? 

you make it sound like danny just got here...he's been on the damn staff for probably ten years and i think he is the one jumping around everytime we get a 6'4" non-fast wr.  Plus being a QB you gotta wonder how he heck we haven't had a serviceable qb for quite a while..both ketts and zim are transfers...

[fightingsioux4life]

21 minutes ago, shep said:

I've stopped being surprised that some think they care more than the rest of us. We all want this football team to be successful. We all want playoffs, but because we don't constantly bi&th about it,  some posters here take it that we don't  care. Today sucked and the team sucked and it reminds me of the 80s when I went to UND and the team sucked and I'm sick of it.

Excuse me, but I never said I cared more than anybody else. But it is a fact that if you pretend there isn't a problem and don't speak up about it, it isn't going to magically go away. What I don't like is the insinuation that I am not a "real" fan because I have the nerve to point out what is wrong and why it needs to be fixed before anything will change for the better. This whole Pollyannish attitude of "support the coaches and players and be positive all the time" may make people feel better, but it won't fix what is wrong. And what is wrong is a lack of leadership at the top of UND's administration.

[fightingsioux4life]

24 minutes ago, Mama Sue said:

Very well said... stand behind the coaches and team...

Yeah....because if you say anything negative at all, you are not a real fan. 

The fact that people think the two are mutually exclusive is part of the problem.

[Oxbow6]

3 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

you make it sound like danny just got here...he's been on the damn staff for probably ten years and i think he is the one jumping around everytime we get a 6'4" non-fast wr.  Plus being a QB you gotta wonder how he heck we haven't had a serviceable qb for quite a while..both ketts and zim are transfers...

Seriously question.....how many skilled guys (that play) does UND have that are game breakers? How many of these guys can flat out run? 4.5 or better speed.

[SIOUXFAN97]

hey mr. cloyd we need you to lose 25 pounds so we can use your more your senior season.............................................................................................1 catch 5 yards.

[shep]

2 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Excuse me, but I never said I cared more than anybody else. But it is a fact that if you pretend there isn't a problem and don't speak up about it, it isn't going to magically go away. What I don't like is the insinuation that I am not a "real" fan because I have the nerve to point out what is wrong and why it needs to be fixed before anything will change for the better. This whole Pollyannish attitude of "support the coaches and players and be positive all the time" may make people feel better, but it won't fix what is wrong. And what is wrong is a lack of leadership at the top of UND's administration.

The implication is always there. No ONE on this board is satisfied with what is happening now. NO ONE.

The fact that we all don't call for the coach's head doesn't mean we don't care, nor does it mean you and others care more. We understand the situation and don't like it. But please tell me you understand that a new HC doesn't automatically bridge the gap between us and them. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 minute ago, Oxbow6 said:

Seriously question.....how many skilled guys (that play) does UND have that are game breakers? How many of these guys can flat out run? 4.5 or better speed.

chaves is probably wondering the same thing....the biggest dis that bubba had when he took over was when he said that this program "lacked a lot of d1 talent"...think muss is thinking the same thing right now.

[Fry Bread]

The number one goal is to be FCS champions. 

To do that UND must be able to beat the Bison. 

To beat the Bison the Sioux must play the Bison. 

Today was the first day of the start of what it takes to be FCS champions, play the Bison every year. 

When it happens, and it will happen, it will be very sweet. 

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, shep said:

The implication is always there. No ONE on this board is satisfied with what is happening now. NO ONE.

The fact that we all don't call for the coach's head doesn't mean we don't care, nor does it mean you and others care more. We understand the situation and don't like it. But please tell me you understand that a new HC doesn't automatically bridge the gap between us and them. 

I didn't mention Bubba once in my comments.

The problem is that we don't have the facilities to compete consistently at the Division I level.

That falls squarely in the lap of UND's administration, which has provided rudderless leadership for a long time.

What you saw today, what you have seen over the past several years in other programs on campus, are the natural consequences of this leadership vacuum.

[UND1983]

Hindsight is 20/20: scheduling these games was stupid and benefitted UND in no way other than to show how far away they are.

[dmksioux]

16 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Hindsight is 20/20: scheduling these games was stupid and benefitted UND in now way other than to show how far away they are.

Well, in theory, we should’ve learned how far away we were in 2015, learn from it, get  to work, and close that gap a bit by this year.  Obviously that didn’t happen.  I don’t mind that the games were scheduled, I’m more concerned that we haven’t appeared to close the gap much, if at all.  Day by day isn’t getting it done...

[fightingsioux4life]

46 minutes ago, northernraider said:

I'm not native to North Dakota so not familiar with all the history between UND and NDSU. As I understand it, during D2 days both teams were competitive, often switching dominance every few of years. However since  the move up to FCS, NDSU has basically become king. 

My question is how did this happen? Was it because NDSU went D1 first? Did Mussman hold us back? Focus on football over hockey at UND? None or all the above?

Back in the 1980's, NDSU had a similar level of dominance. UND turned the tables starting in 1993 with that pivotal game in Grand Forks.

I blame Mussman for running the program into the ground after Lennon left for SIU.

Like @SteppenHawk said, I also blame the lack of leadership at the top of UND's Administration, which has led to a lack of facilities needed to compete at the Division I level. This athletic department has been run like a high school for too long now. Heck, I am surprised we haven't started selling baked goods outside of the stadium and/or arena yet. 

There is a lot of work to do and the longer we wait, the worse it will get.

[Irish]

52 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

This game was a huge measuring stick for where we are and we didn’t measure up. We aren’t a complete team right now offensively, defensively or special teams. I doubt your disappointment and concern is greater than mine or others. I thought we could be more competitive by now but today’s game is over. We need to focus on the upcoming game and we need to improve in a number of areas. We all have our own style and manner which if different than yours is not indicative of complacency. We aren’t going to make coaching changes before the end of the season so, to me, that discussion is fruitless unless I’m speaking to the decision makers. In the meantime, these coaches have my full support until they resign or until the end of the season whichever comes first. The Bison are pretty good right now.  Unless we improve each week we are mediocre at best. I expect us to improve each week. If we don’t, you will need to stand in line to demand changes. My friends, alumni that I know, and former players expect excellence. I can’t play anymore, I can’t coach anymore, so until the time is right I can keep attending games, donating what I can and offer my support.  These coaches are subject to the measuring stick I have applied to subordinate staff in the past. Are we better off with them or without them?  That question must be answered at the end of each season. Until then, Go Hawks. 

I know you are an avid Sioux supporter and very knowledgeable about football and the program.  This appears to be a very sensible approach, but one I would feel better about if in the past any  measuring stick has been applied to Bubba and staff - otherwise how could we go on with Rudy for 5 years.  How could we have the worst second half playoff performance I have ever seen?  How could we put up with the play calling, lack of adjustments, and total collapse last year with a playoff spot on the line? Expect excellence?  I'm not seeing it.  More like hope for excellence, but oh well if we're not.  As a group have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity.  Don't believe me - watch me get a huge amount of crap for this assessment.  What we saw today was unacceptable - especially after 5 plus years of "rebuilding".  Our program has been wandering in the wilderness for over 10 years.  Time to expect excellence and really mean it this time.

[Mama Sue]

38 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Yeah....because if you say anything negative at all, you are not a real fan. 

The fact that people think the two are mutually exclusive is part of the problem.

No, we are 1 - 1.

We lost to the national champs but not 58 to 0... that would be a blow out.

The offense had some good moments; the defense got tired out but come on, 2 sacks. The ST have improved.

I am not ready to throw the coaches or players under the bus yet. Administration will need to start either funding this level of play or be satisfied with less than mediocre teams... and see what donors and sponsors have to say.

A lot of money in sponsorship in the dome.... 

sleep on it... look to the next game...

[iramurphy]

26 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Excuse me, but I never said I cared more than anybody else. But it is a fact that if you pretend there isn't a problem and don't speak up about it, it isn't going to magically go away. What I don't like is the insinuation that I am not a "real" fan because I have the nerve to point out what is wrong and why it needs to be fixed before anything will change for the better. This whole Pollyannish attitude of "support the coaches and players and be positive all the time" may make people feel better, but it won't fix what is wrong. And what is wrong is a lack of leadership at the top of UND's administration.

I can’t believe imagine people don’t think you are a fan. Nothing we say on this site will change anything nor help move things in the right direction.  I believe to remain positive especially with social media sites is better for the program. Doesn’t mean you are wrong.  I agree that we have not had the dynamic leadership that can create a unified athletic department that recognizes the importance of men’s and women’s intercollegiate athletics to UND and the region and the student experience.  We have a Governor who is not interested in advancing the interests of UND and at the same time is a big cheerleader for NDSU. I don’t know where Josh Wynne stands with regards to athletics but I am not convinced our Alumni Office has our athletic success at the top of their priority list right now. Chaves and all of our coaches face many challenges. We are struggling to more fully engage our students in all sports and winning is a key component but we also must improve the student experience. 

[fightingsioux4life]

1 minute ago, Irish said:

I know you are an avid Sioux supporter and very knowledgeable about football and the program.  This appears to be a very sensible approach, but one I would feel better about if in the past any  measuring stick has been applied to Bubba and staff - otherwise how could we go on with Rudy for 5 years.  How could we have the worst second half playoff performance I have ever seen?  How could we put up with the play calling, lack of adjustments, and total collapse last year with a playoff spot on the line? Expect excellence?  I'm not seeing it.  More like hope for excellence, but oh well if we're not.  As a group have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity.  Don't believe me - watch me get a huge amount of crap for this assessment.  What we saw today was unacceptable - especially after 5 plus years of "rebuilding".  Our program has been wandering in the wilderness for over 10 years.  Time to expect excellence and really mean it this time.

Spot on. Agree 1000%. And I no longer care how much crap I get from people. Some things need to be pointed out, whether people want to hear them or not.

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, northernraider said:

I'm not native to North Dakota so not familiar with all the history between UND and NDSU. As I understand it, during D2 days both teams were competitive, often switching dominance every few of years. However since  the move up to FCS, NDSU has basically become king. 

My question is how did this happen? Was it because NDSU went D1 first? Did Mussman hold us back? Focus on football over hockey at UND? None or all the above?

When NDSU went DI earlier, they paid for new locker rooms, workout rooms and meeting rooms in the Fargo Dome while UND didn’t do much for ten years.  Then UND dropped NDSU as an opponent when UND was still  DII because the scholarship disparity as a loss would hurt UND for the DII playoffs, and then NDSU AD refused to play UND when UND went DI.  The net effect of that move made NDSU the main advertising supported team in the state so it had plenty of money for coaches and other facilities such as an indoor practice facility.

Combined with the effect of SDSU going DI and building great facilities, UND’s recruiting fall way behind both of them. SDSU moved ahead of UND among recruits (used to get top SD recruit to come to UND) and NDSU is way ahead in the recruiting battles.  Facilities, competent coaching, and winning other games are badly needed.