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UND- NDSU GDT 9/7/2019

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26 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Excuse me, but I never said I cared more than anybody else. But it is a fact that if you pretend there isn't a problem and don't speak up about it, it isn't going to magically go away. What I don't like is the insinuation that I am not a "real" fan because I have the nerve to point out what is wrong and why it needs to be fixed before anything will change for the better. This whole Pollyannish attitude of "support the coaches and players and be positive all the time" may make people feel better, but it won't fix what is wrong. And what is wrong is a lack of leadership at the top of UND's administration.

I can’t believe imagine people don’t think you are a fan. Nothing we say on this site will change anything nor help move things in the right direction.  I believe to remain positive especially with social media sites is better for the program. Doesn’t mean you are wrong.  I agree that we have not had the dynamic leadership that can create a unified athletic department that recognizes the importance of men’s and women’s intercollegiate athletics to UND and the region and the student experience.  We have a Governor who is not interested in advancing the interests of UND and at the same time is a big cheerleader for NDSU. I don’t know where Josh Wynne stands with regards to athletics but I am not convinced our Alumni Office has our athletic success at the top of their priority list right now. Chaves and all of our coaches face many challenges. We are struggling to more fully engage our students in all sports and winning is a key component but we also must improve the student experience. 

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1 minute ago, Irish said:

I know you are an avid Sioux supporter and very knowledgeable about football and the program.  This appears to be a very sensible approach, but one I would feel better about if in the past any  measuring stick has been applied to Bubba and staff - otherwise how could we go on with Rudy for 5 years.  How could we have the worst second half playoff performance I have ever seen?  How could we put up with the play calling, lack of adjustments, and total collapse last year with a playoff spot on the line? Expect excellence?  I'm not seeing it.  More like hope for excellence, but oh well if we're not.  As a group have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity.  Don't believe me - watch me get a huge amount of crap for this assessment.  What we saw today was unacceptable - especially after 5 plus years of "rebuilding".  Our program has been wandering in the wilderness for over 10 years.  Time to expect excellence and really mean it this time.

Spot on. Agree 1000%. And I no longer care how much crap I get from people. Some things need to be pointed out, whether people want to hear them or not.

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1 hour ago, northernraider said:

I'm not native to North Dakota so not familiar with all the history between UND and NDSU. As I understand it, during D2 days both teams were competitive, often switching dominance every few of years. However since  the move up to FCS, NDSU has basically become king. 

My question is how did this happen? Was it because NDSU went D1 first? Did Mussman hold us back? Focus on football over hockey at UND? None or all the above?

When NDSU went DI earlier, they paid for new locker rooms, workout rooms and meeting rooms in the Fargo Dome while UND didn’t do much for ten years.  Then UND dropped NDSU as an opponent when UND was still  DII because the scholarship disparity as a loss would hurt UND for the DII playoffs, and then NDSU AD refused to play UND when UND went DI.  The net effect of that move made NDSU the main advertising supported team in the state so it had plenty of money for coaches and other facilities such as an indoor practice facility.

Combined with the effect of SDSU going DI and building great facilities, UND’s recruiting fall way behind both of them. SDSU moved ahead of UND among recruits (used to get top SD recruit to come to UND) and NDSU is way ahead in the recruiting battles.  Facilities, competent coaching, and winning other games are badly needed.

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4 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Spot on. Agree 1000%. And I no longer care how much crap I get from people. Some things need to be pointed out, whether people want to hear them or not.

UND enters a new conference next season. New leadership needs to lead UND into the MVC. This was solidified IMO by what I watched today. 

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1 minute ago, iramurphy said:

I can’t believe imagine people don’t think you are a fan. Nothing we say on this site will change anything nor help move things in the right direction.  I believe to remain positive especially with social media sites is better for the program. Doesn’t mean you are wrong.  I agree that we have not had the dynamic leadership that can create a unified athletic department that recognizes the importance of men’s and women’s intercollegiate athletics to UND and the region and the student experience.  We have a Governor who is not interested in advancing the interests of UND and at the same time is a big cheerleader for NDSU. I don’t know where Josh Wynne stands with regards to athletics but I am not convinced our Alumni Office has our athletic success at the top of their priority list right now. Chaves and all of our coaches face many challenges. We are struggling to more fully engage our students in all sports and winning is a key component but we also must improve the student experience. 

Being positive when there are real problems that are getting worse is denial in the face of reality. Why do you have this idea that being upset about the state of our programs is somehow going to negatively affect recruiting? The way I see it, if people are upset about the lack of success in an athletic department, that means they care about the school and its programs and want something better for the athletes, alumni and community. That is something I would want to be a part of as an athlete. Strive for excellence and be disappointed with anything less.

Chaves and our next President have their work cut out for them. I do not envy them one bit.

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3 hours ago, SiouxBoys said:

Blindside block. Stood over him afterwards. And getting a sideline warning while up 31.

I wish our players played with that edge. Their team needs it, our team wants it. We need more assholes on our team.

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5 minutes ago, Mama Sue said:

No, we are 1 - 1.

We lost to the national champs but not 58 to 0... that would be a blow out.

The offense had some good moments; the defense got tired out but come on, 2 sacks. The ST have improved.

I am not ready to throw the coaches or players under the bus yet. Administration will need to start either funding this level of play or be satisfied with less than mediocre teams... and see what donors and sponsors have to say.

A lot of money in sponsorship in the dome.... 

sleep on it... look to the next game...

This was blowout. 

Not the first team to get blown out in the dome. Wont be the last. It happens. 

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No playoffs, no Bubba. Chaves better have a list of replacements ready cause if we play like this all year we would be lucky to win 3 or 4 games.

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10 minutes ago, Mama Sue said:

No, we are 1 - 1.

We lost to the national champs but not 58 to 0... that would be a blow out.

The offense had some good moments; the defense got tired out but come on, 2 sacks. The ST have improved.

I am not ready to throw the coaches or players under the bus yet. Administration will need to start either funding this level of play or be satisfied with less than mediocre teams... and see what donors and sponsors have to say.

A lot of money in sponsorship in the dome.... 

sleep on it... look to the next game...

The season is not lost. But today doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

The bolded passage in your post is the heart of what is wrong around here.

And this is a fan forum, where we get to vent about losses and whatever else. Don't expect all of us to be positive 100% of the time.

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7 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

This was blowout. 

Not the first team to get blown out in the dome. Wont be the last. It happens. 

Don't you have something better to do, John Boy Walton? :angry:

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2 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

The season is not lost. But today doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

The bolded passage in your post is the heart of what is wrong around here.

And this is a fan forum, where we get to vent about losses and whatever else. Don't expect all of us to be positive 100% of the time.

I totally agree... it all goes back to money, either in the budget or donated. Yes we need to vent. Like I said... we just need to sleep on it.

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Just now, Mama Sue said:

I totally agree... it all goes back to money, either in the budget or donated. Yes we need to vent. Like I said... we just need to sleep on it.

Well, I can't disagree with that. I enjoy sleep! ;)

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56 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I didn't mention Bubba once in my comments.

The problem is that we don't have the facilities to compete consistently at the Division I level.

That falls squarely in the lap of UND's administration, which has provided rudderless leadership for a long time.

What you saw today, what you have seen over the past several years in other programs on campus, are the natural consequences of this leadership vacuum.

I agree with that. Very good points.

Of course, they will say that alums like us should be giving more

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12 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

You know you've packed it when you see this.......

33888.jpeg

You have got to be f-ing kidding me

Edited by UNDBIZ
Language
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5 minutes ago, Irish said:

I know you are an avid Sioux supporter and very knowledgeable about football and the program.  This appears to be a very sensible approach, but one I would feel better about if in the past any  measuring stick has been applied to Bubba and staff - otherwise how could we go on with Rudy for 5 years.  How could we have the worst second half playoff performance I have ever seen?  How could we put up with the play calling, lack of adjustments, and total collapse last year with a playoff spot on the line? Expect excellence?  I'm not seeing it.  More like hope for excellence, but oh well if we're not.  As a group have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity.  Don't believe me - watch me get a huge amount of crap for this assessment.  What we saw today was unacceptable - especially after 5 plus years of "rebuilding".  Our program has been wandering in the wilderness for over 10 years.  Time to expect excellence and really mean it this time.

Points well taken. I believe the Big Sky Championship in spite of the playoff flop bought them extra time. Over the Kupchella years we had a bright President who had very little interest nor understanding of athletics. Kelly had a better understanding but we wasted time and effort and resources dealing with the name and logo fiasco. It hurt his ability to focus his efforts in the areas of athletics where he needed to focus. His biggest blunder was failing to foster the Sanford relationship and offer of $10,000,000.  That was just “seed money” if you look at the tens of millions SDSU, USD,NDSU, Bemidji, Etc have received.  Look at the facilities at those schools and their communities. Kennedy was a politician who admired everything being done at his wife’s Alma Mater.  We lost the opportunity for Dave Fennell’s support when ‘Keefe and Harmon passed on Bollinger in favor of Bunning.  Faison failed to follow up on communication with Mayo Sports Medicine with regards to Phase 2.  You don’t need to convince me of leadership mistakes and missed opportunities with regards to athletics.  Will Josh Wynne help?  Chaves seems to understand our needs.  We don’t have anyone that I am aware of willing to provide the $50,000,000 necessary to finish phase 2 and provide the resources to double coaches salaries.  I believe that may be the source of our frustration and has slowed our progress.  

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Just now, shep said:

I agree with that. Very good points.

Of course, they will say that alums like us should be giving more

We need to cultivate more relationships with potential donors not headquartered in Las Vegas. We cannot lean on one family to donate to our programs. Division I is just too expensive not to.

I really don't want us to become a school with great academics and research and lousy athletics. I honestly don't think we have to choose between one or the other. We can strive for greatness in all three of those areas.

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1 minute ago, iramurphy said:

Points well taken. I believe the Big Sky Championship in spite of the playoff flop bought them extra time. Over the Kupchella years we had a bright President who had very little interest nor understanding of athletics. Kelly had a better understanding but we wasted time and effort and resources dealing with the name and logo fiasco. It hurt his ability to focus his efforts in the areas of athletics where he needed to focus. His biggest blunder was failing to foster the Sanford relationship and offer of $10,000,000.  That was just “seed money” if you look at the tens of millions SDSU, USD,NDSU, Bemidji, Etc have received.  Look at the facilities at those schools and their communities. Kennedy was a politician who admired everything being done at his wife’s Alma Mater.  We lost the opportunity for Dave Fennell’s support when ‘Keefe and Harmon passed on Bollinger in favor of Bunning.  Faison failed to follow up on communication with Mayo Sports Medicine with regards to Phase 2.  You don’t need to convince me of leadership mistakes and missed opportunities with regards to athletics.  Will Josh Wynne help?  Chaves seems to understand our needs.  We don’t have anyone that I am aware of willing to provide the $50,000,000 necessary to finish phase 2 and provide the resources to double coaches salaries.  I believe that may be the source of our frustration and has slowed our progress.  

This is where cultivating new potential donors is crucial to moving us forward and not backward. The new President and Chaves will need to hit some home runs, along with some singles and doubles in this area. Also, the Alumni Association needs to stop leaving athletics out of the fundraising agenda. They just announced a record amount of money raised and I bet little to none of it will help athletics. I truly believe we can be great in academics, athletics and research. We just need strong leaders in the right places.

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3 minutes ago, shep said:

I agree with that. Very good points.

Of course, they will say that alums like us should be giving more

That is true everywhere. I get requests from U of Mn and Wisconsin regularly.  It takes money to provide all of the resources to upgrade salaries, facilities, equipment etc.   Studies over many years show success of athletic programs leads to increased financial support for not only athletics but also for academic programs. 

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4 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

We need to cultivate more relationships with potential donors not headquartered in Las Vegas. We cannot lean on one family to donate to our programs. Division I is just too expensive not to.

I really don't want us to become a school with great academics and research and lousy athletics. I honestly don't think we have to choose between one or the other. We can strive for greatness in all three of those areas.

I agree.

Can't remember what Saban is getting at Bama, but I recall seeing an article that said that he brings in more than he's paid. That is, students, and research dollars and just the notoriety. 

UND can do the same. Lots of money going into the Aviation department and rightly so. Need more of that around the campus and especially sports.

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Schlossman had good points about needing UND game breakers on offense.  Mussman gets slammed here but he recruited Harden and Galloway, the type players that Bubba doesn’t seem to want or attract with his emphasis on ball control and defense.  Need a combo of the two coaches.  Bubba can’t outrecruit NDSU for defensive players and needs to modify his offense.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4650987-Commentary-UND-lacks-gamebreakers-and-it-shows-against-NDSU

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1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

Schlossman had good points about needing UND game breakers on offense.  Mussman gets slammed here but he recruited Harden and Galloway, the type players that Bubba doesn’t want with his emphasis on ball control and defense.  Need a combo of the two.

Not sure I'd say, he doesn't want them, but that UND doesn't get them. 

Cochran looks like that type. One example.

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4 minutes ago, shep said:

I agree.

Can't remember what Saban is getting at Bama, but I recall seeing an article that said that he brings in more than he's paid. That is, students, and research dollars and just the notoriety. 

UND can do the same. Lots of money going into the Aviation department and rightly so. Need more of that around the campus and especially sports.

I guess this is the reason I am so crabby right now. Seeing what is happening to athletics is hard to swallow, especially since I grew up following our teams and went to school during one of the most successful periods our teams have ever experienced (1993-2000). I have had my fill of NDSU and the Imperial Cass County media machine. The sooner we can punch back, the better.

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2 minutes ago, shep said:

Not sure I'd say, he doesn't want them, but that UND doesn't get them. 

Cochran looks like that type. One example.

When the find out about Bubba’s offensive philosophy, they end up passing on UND.

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Just now, UND1983 said:

Bubba's contract runs through 2021. He ain't going anywhere.

Awesome

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