President Kennedy Message on Athletics

[iluvdebbies]

2 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I'm fine with women's hockey staying, if they can find a way to trim their budget and reallocate it to other women's sports.  Anyway they can operation with a $1.1 million dollar budget and send more $$$ to volleyball and womens basketball?

What is the current budget for VB and WBB?

[SWSiouxMN]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/4128488-future-8-und-sports-air-committee-considers-cuts

 

[UNDBIZ]

51 minutes ago, farce poobah said:

If by that you mean, we should keep sports that have reasonable probability of making the national tournament (or individual placements for individual sports), I agree.

I was actually curious when they last made it. The talk of them being a perennial top 10 is what made me wonder. Apparently top 10 isn't worth much if it doesn't even get you into the playoffs. 

[farce poobah]

Just now, UNDBIZ said:

I was actually curious when they last made it. The talk of them being a perennial top 10 is what made me wonder. Apparently top 10 isn't worth much if it doesn't even get you into the playoffs. 

I believe Womens Hockey made it in 11-12 and 12-13.   First round exits at the hands of WCHA nemesis who-shall-not-be-named.

I think of it as a sport where UND has the possibility of winning national championships (and that is a short list of teams), so I would be in the camp of evaluating the effectiveness of coaching and development of womens hockey team. 

And I also agree wholeheartedly with the desire to focus more resources toward sports where revenue generation is a great possibility - mens basketball revenues are scandalously low.   And WBB and VB should be able to generate more revenue.

On my list of revenue generating questions is getting a basketball arena with modern luxury suites, and overall larger capacity.   (Yes I miss the days where basketball could cram 5000+ into Hyslop.)

[Siouxperman8]

49 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

I was actually curious when they last made it. The talk of them being a perennial top 10 is what made me wonder. Apparently top 10 isn't worth much if it doesn't even get you into the playoffs. 

top 8 get in.  UND was 10th last year.  RPI in Women's hockey is heavily weighted to the East Coast teams for some reason.  Schlossman has explained it but I don't remember details.  Some weaker teams from the east get in every year at the expense of western teams. 

Mercyhurst got in ahead of Bemidji State, probably an auto bid.

[cberkas]

3 hours ago, Siouxperman8 said:

top 8 get in.  UND was 10th last year.  RPI in Women's hockey is heavily weighted to the East Coast teams for some reason.  Schlossman has explained it but I don't remember details.  Some weaker teams from the east get in every year at the expense of western teams. 

Mercyhurst got in ahead of Bemidji State, probably an auto bid.

One big problem is, the WCHA plays a balanced schedule instead of an unbalanced schedule which hurts the WCHA and UND when the NCAA tournament starts.

[Oxbow6]

UND has basically put on a "dog and pony show" on every front when a major decision needs to be made. Thought things might change when Kelley walked his sorry a** out the door. Guess not!

[Nodak78]

35 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

UND has basically put on a "dog and pony show" on every front when a major decision needs to be made. Thought things might change when Kelley walked his sorry a** out the door. Guess not!

No Kelley would need another committee to determine what this committee decided.  Kennedy will make the decision.  This committee is to educate the faculty before Kennedy makes the decision.

[The Sicatoka]

Like I said before, I suspect this is Kennedy's way of making the University Senate (and its IAC subcommittee) feel important and involved in the process and decision. He has to reach out and make nice-nice with the academics because many are upset that he's a business and administrative and political mind first (and not first and foremost an established member of the glorious academy). 

But lo and behold brave readers, forget not what Kennedy said when he had the IAC start looking at this: He said the final decision is his and his alone. 

Based on his statements acknowledging the importance of athletics (from his time at St. John's and at Michigan) I trust him. 

[The Sicatoka]

Above the line: MIH, WIH, FB, MBB, WBB, VB, ITF, OTF, XC (12 teams, 6 M, 6 W). 
___________________

The netherworld: MGolf (self-funded and endowed for two season)
___________________

Below the line: WSoc, WSoft, WGolf, M/W Tennis, M/W S&D.

Here's my take:
- as noted by SV, the Above the Line group all has new facilities (since 2000) -- Ralph, Alerus, HPC -- that's a "tell" in my mind
- soccer uses the HPC and it is participation numbers to balance FB
- with the demise of baseball, softball should worry
- tennis plays at city-owned off-campus facility
- the Hyslop pool needs work 

[UNDBIZ]

From Goon's World: http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2016/10/no-womens-hockey-is-not-on-chopping.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FZTZqA+(Goon's+World)

Quote

First, cutting women's hockey would be a horrible idea, the optics would be horrible and the university would take a beating on the national stage. Some that would see this as cutting a women's sport for the sole purpose of improving a men's sport. We've heard for years, that if UND spent more money on men's basketball and football they'd be better? That would only strengthen that argument. Second, women's hockey is one of the few sports where UND has an actual chance to win a division I national title. Lastly, women's hockey is an Olympic sport. UND has had quite a few players compete in international play and their efforts bring prestige to our university. Also, don't we want the area's daughters to have a place to play women's division on college hockey? I think we would. 

1. Who on the national stage cares about women's hockey?  Unless Schloss is considered the national stage now.  To the SJWs, just point out that we also cut baseball, likely men's tennis, and eventually men's golf.

2. UND should be open and honest about how it puts most of the WIH money into WBB and VB.  The men's sports you mentioned should also receive some of the money, and UND should be very public about how it has over-funded women's sports for over a decade and men's sports were also cut in this process.

3. Winning a women's hockey national title.  If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, did it make a sound?

4. Olympians.  See #3

5. Don't we want the area's sons to have a place to play Division 1 baseball?  I guess not.  The girls can still go to Bemidji, Duluth, Mankato, and St. Cloud too. The team currently has just 1 player from ND and 2 from NW MN anyway (4 from Europe, 8 from Canada, 5 from the twin cities, & 5 randoms).

I understand women's hockey is here to stay, but I'm still not convinced there's a valid reason why.

[UNDBIZ]

On 8/31/2016 at 11:31 AM, UNDBIZ said:

Been rethinking the athletics cuts lately.  New proposal:  We've already cut baseball and men's golf is now self-funded ($750,000).  Next we cut swimming and diving completely ($1 million), get approval from the Big Sky to cut men's tennis ($100,000), and reduce funding for women's hockey by 20% ($300,000).  That $2,150,000 covers the deficit and most of FCOA and we'd get to keep the sacred cow that is women's hockey.  

If we think we need more, then it comes time to consider moving everything other than football and hockey to the slummit to save on travel (maybe $300,000) and cut women's tennis ($200,000).  The move to the slummit would likely also result in increased revenue (maybe $15-20,000) from ticket sales for MBB, WBB, and VB (just USD and SDSU bumps, as we're already set to play ndsu yearly).  

That'll put us at 9 women's sports and 7 men's.  If the Title IXers complain, it would seem justifiable to allocate half the REA expenses to women's hockey (reducing men's hockey expenses) to increase the women's hockey expenses to $2.3 million.

More?  If possible, get football into the MVFC and we'd save another $200,000 in travel and increase ticket sales by $100,000.

As for what UND should do, my opinion hasn't changed from this yet.  Also, by cutting these sports we could cut at least 1, maybe 2 administrative staff.  There's another $100,000-$200,000 per year.

[SIOUXFAN97]

45 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

From Goon's World: http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2016/10/no-womens-hockey-is-not-on-chopping.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FZTZqA+(Goon's+World)

1. Who on the national stage cares about women's hockey?  Unless Schloss is considered the national stage now.  To the SJWs, just point out that we also cut baseball, likely men's tennis, and eventually men's golf.

2. UND should be open and honest about how it puts most of the WIH money into WBB and VB.  The men's sports you mentioned should also receive some of the money, and UND should be very public about how it has over-funded women's sports for over a decade and men's sports were also cut in this process.

3. Winning a women's hockey national title.  If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, did it make a sound?

4. Olympians.  See #3

5. Don't we want the area's sons to have a place to play Division 1 baseball?  I guess not.  The girls can still go to Bemidji, Duluth, Mankato, and St. Cloud too. The team currently has just 1 player from ND and 2 from NW MN anyway (4 from Europe, 8 from Canada, 5 from the twin cities, & 5 randoms).

I understand women's hockey is here to stay, but I'm still not convinced there's a valid reason why.

best post in a long long time on here....love #3!

[The Sicatoka]

19 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

1. Where'd the "safe" list (MIH, WIH, FB, VB, MBB, WBB, ITF, OTF, XC) come from? I'm pretty sure that committee isn't that smart on their own. 

The GF Herald answered my question: President Kennedy and AD Faison gave it to the committee chair (Kenville). 

Quote

That list of sports was given to Kenville in a previous meeting with Kennedy and Athletics Director Brian Faison, Kenville said.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/4128488-future-8-und-sports-air-committee-considers-cuts

[John W.]

Good points above...how many high school students from ND and NW MN compete in baseball/softball, golf. vs. hockey (both boys and girls)....Look at the attendance at the  ND boys and girls state hockey tourneys!!!!!  Fans disguised as empty seats...I would guess at the NCAA levels, ESPN's ratings are greater for baseball/softball than for mens/womens ICE hockey....Revenue also may be greater...

Let's be real...women's hockey is being spared to satisfy the 'big donors' as opposed to financial realities....C'mon President Kennedy....let's be fair across the board.....

[UND-1]

1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

From Goon's World: http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2016/10/no-womens-hockey-is-not-on-chopping.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FZTZqA+(Goon's+World)

1. Who on the national stage cares about women's hockey?  Unless Schloss is considered the national stage now.  To the SJWs, just point out that we also cut baseball, likely men's tennis, and eventually men's golf.

2. UND should be open and honest about how it puts most of the WIH money into WBB and VB.  The men's sports you mentioned should also receive some of the money, and UND should be very public about how it has over-funded women's sports for over a decade and men's sports were also cut in this process.

3. Winning a women's hockey national title.  If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, did it make a sound?

4. Olympians.  See #3

5. Don't we want the area's sons to have a place to play Division 1 baseball?  I guess not.  The girls can still go to Bemidji, Duluth, Mankato, and St. Cloud too. The team currently has just 1 player from ND and 2 from NW MN anyway (4 from Europe, 8 from Canada, 5 from the twin cities, & 5 randoms).

I understand women's hockey is here to stay, but I'm still not convinced there's a valid reason why.

I read that too and laughed, essentially.  The "national stage" of Women's Hockey....lmfao.  If it was funded like soccer or softball, great.  But my gawd.  

Women's hockey is being spared because they play the same sport as Brad Berry's team.  End of story.  

[The Sicatoka]

At risk of repeating myself: 

22 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Agree. I'd like to see (as previously discussed) the programs that use REA in any way (MIH, WIH, MBB, WBB, WVB, WSoc) pay in proportion to actual use of the facility by the program. 

Putting all the expense to just MIH would not stand up to any sort of GAAP audit in the real world. 

Even if that's not how it happened in the most recent statements, that should be done right now on the pro forma that the IAC and President Kennedy are using during their reviews. As it stands now, it looks like the mens side of the ledger is more expensive than it really is. 

Right now MIH is shown as paying the expense, all the expense ($2,234,982), for use of REA. Between WIH, WBB, WVB, and WSoc, I don't think it is wrong to apply about $1M of that (~45%) to the women's side of the ledger. 

[fightingsioux4life]

8 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

At risk of repeating myself: 

Even if that's not how it happened in the most recent statements, that should be done right now on the pro forma that the IAC and President Kennedy are using during their reviews. As it stands now, it looks like the mens side of the ledger is more expensive than it really is. 

Right now MIH is shown as paying the expense, all the expense ($2,234,982), for use of REA. Between WIH, WBB, WVB, and WSoc, I don't think it is wrong to apply about $1M of that (~45%) to the women's side of the ledger. 

Why does it cost UND over $2 million to use REA? I thought all these concerts, tennis matches, HS tournaments, circuses, etc. were supposed to help pay the operating expenses for the arena? I thought Ralph built this arena to benefit UND and give our programs a distinct advantage compared to everyone else with regard to financial resources? Honest questions, as I can't make sense of it all.

[Oxbow6]

The fact that this committee even brought up a move back to D2, even if it was in jest, shows this "process" is worthless. Kennedy just needs to cut thru this crap, make a decision and get this over with.

[ericpnelson]

I'm quite surprised of how much of tough guy journalists some people have become post Kelley, at least early on. The negativity on Bob came on pretty darn late, in my opinion. As for scrapping the committee, I don't think you can, especially after how changing the process halfway through has gone in the past year or so here at UND. I like the out that Kennedy can do his own thing, and just use the committee as a take it or leave it sounding board/brainstorming deal, even if it is stupid. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

20 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Why does it cost UND over $2 million to use REA? I thought all these concerts, tennis matches, HS tournaments, circuses, etc. were supposed to help pay the operating expenses for the arena? I thought Ralph built this arena to benefit UND and give our programs a distinct advantage compared to everyone else with regard to financial resources? Honest questions, as I can't make sense of it all.

i've wanted to know this answer for years  SHOW ME THE MONEY...but with accounting numbers can be meaningless especially if the books are being cooked (all expenses on the mens side)!!!!

[nodak651]

21 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Why does it cost UND over $2 million to use REA? I thought all these concerts, tennis matches, HS tournaments, circuses, etc. were supposed to help pay the operating expenses for the arena? I thought Ralph built this arena to benefit UND and give our programs a distinct advantage compared to everyone else with regard to financial resources? Honest questions, as I can't make sense of it all.

This is a BIG question that I would love to see get answered.  Perhaps Rob Port could help.  

[jdub27]

49 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Why does it cost UND over $2 million to use REA? I thought all these concerts, tennis matches, HS tournaments, circuses, etc. were supposed to help pay the operating expenses for the arena? I thought Ralph built this arena to benefit UND and give our programs a distinct advantage compared to everyone else with regard to financial resources? Honest questions, as I can't make sense of it all.

You're assuming that those are hard costs/real money. I would bet that isn't necessarily the case, however they are still "costs" that need to be appropriated somewhere. On top of that, money UND does pay is indirectly helping funding the Betty and some of the improvements to the REA. It is also doesn't take into account the money that flows back to UND from the REA Foundation.

It is a strange and complex relationship with a lot of moving parts, though I believe set up to be in the best interest of UND in the long run. UND should see a lot of benefit from some things that may look a little off now in about 14 years or so.

[fightingsioux4life]

19 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

You're assuming that those are hard costs/real money. I would bet that isn't necessarily the case, however they are still "costs" that need to be appropriated somewhere. On top of that, money UND does pay is indirectly helping funding the Betty and some of the improvements to the REA. It is also doesn't take into account the money that flows back to UND from the REA Foundation.

It is a strange and complex relationship with a lot of moving parts, though I believe set up to be in the best interest of UND in the long run. UND should see a lot of benefit from some things that may look a little off now in about 14 years or so.

What has always bothered me is that if all this cash is flowing back into UND, why is UND always struggling with "lack of resources" for programs? The new REA must rake in many times what the old REA did, but it doesn't seem to make our budgets easier to balance.

[jdub27]

13 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

What has always bothered me is that if all this cash is flowing back into UND, why is UND always struggling with "lack of resources" for programs? The new REA must rake in many times what the old REA did, but it doesn't seem to make our budgets easier to balance.

I think there are a lot of reasons for it, the main on being that our budget now is a lot bigger than it was 15 years ago. I believe that in the long run it will very much payoff for UND once they have full ownership. Until then, they will indirectly continue to contribute towards its upkeep/upgrades. Not saying there aren't some things that can't be improved with the relationship and how some things are handled and my thought was the IAC committee would come across some of those. We will see.