Moo U Dumpster Fire Thread

[zonadub]

4 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

I would venture to say it would be very big news if it was JUST caffeine. Idk if the media knows or not, but the Fargo media would love to start an outrage about how an NDSU player got his career derailed by having too much caffeine in his system. The NCAA is an easy target and a local kid losing his last year of eligibility over caffeine would get the people riled up.

I suspect NDSU and the family are content to not talk about it anymore.

 

JohnBoy has had some good posts over the years. This might be one of his best.

[gundy1124]

6 hours ago, Bison06 said:

Amazing that only one player would test positive all year with such widespread use and consistent testing.

 

Ben Newman certainly isn't going to top programs and saying, "be careful, this will test positive if you follow the instructions"

It makes more sense that Newman for the most part has beat the system and extensive internal testing is part of the program to ensure no failed tests.  

It is more plausible that Newman beat the system rather than he gives great motivational speeches which put teams like Alabama, Clemson, and NDSU on top of their respective levels of play.

I am drawing on my own conclusion from what's our there and the inability of NDSU or the Robbins to name the substance (and the levels found).  As someone mentioned, if caffeine, just say it and you'd have most people on your side against the NCAA.  I highly doubt caffeine. 

Bottom Line - What substance was/is being used widely among the team provided by a trusted part of the staff, that actually by NDSU's interpretation was not part of the staff because Klieman was paying Newman from his own salary?  (I can't verify if true or not but open records must either show Newman or not on the payroll)  Why didn't NDSU pay Newman directly?

[MafiaMan]

47 minutes ago, zonadub said:

JohnBoy has had some good posts over the years.

Wait, for a second there, I thought you typed that JohnBoy has had some good posts over the years...

[Bison06]

1 hour ago, gundy1124 said:

Ben Newman certainly isn't going to top programs and saying, "be careful, this will test positive if you follow the instructions"

It makes more sense that Newman for the most part has beat the system and extensive internal testing is part of the program to ensure no failed tests.  

It is more plausible that Newman beat the system rather than he gives great motivational speeches which put teams like Alabama, Clemson, and NDSU on top of their respective levels of play.

I am drawing on my own conclusion from what's our there and the inability of NDSU or the Robbins to name the substance (and the levels found).  As someone mentioned, if caffeine, just say it and you'd have most people on your side against the NCAA.  I highly doubt caffeine. 

Bottom Line - What substance was/is being used widely among the team provided by a trusted part of the staff, that actually by NDSU's interpretation was not part of the staff because Klieman was paying Newman from his own salary?  (I can't verify if true or not but open records must either show Newman or not on the payroll)  Why didn't NDSU pay Newman directly?

Shouldn’t the fact that you doubt caffeine as the substance raise red flags as to your own biases in this case?

I’m not saying it is caffeine, I don’t have any insider info.

But, the fact is the athlete stated he took a common pre workout drink.(caffeine is the active ingredient in most pre workout drinks). Coach Kleiman stated publicly that BR tested positive for a stimulant(caffeine is a stimulant). Caffeine is on the NCAA’s banned substances list when taken at certain quantities. Maybe he took an extra dose. This would account for how many other athletes could take the same thing in a lesser quantity possibly and not test positive. If you look at it objectively with all of the above info, all of a sudden Caffeine is actually very likely.

Yet, you doubt it because caffeine is such a common substance that it doesn’t make NDSU look dirty like you are hoping for.

You and others here want this to be a much bigger deal than it has ever been or ever will be.

You doubting that it’s caffeine only reveals your hope that it isn’t caffeine.

[gundy1124]

6 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Shouldn’t the fact that you doubt caffeine as the substance raise red flags as to your own biases in this case?

I’m not saying it is caffeine, I don’t have any insider info.

But, the fact is the athlete stated he took a common pre workout drink.(caffeine is the active ingredient in most pre workout drinks). Coach Kleiman stated publicly that BR tested positive for a stimulant(caffeine is a stimulant). Caffeine is on the NCAA’s banned substances list when taken at certain quantities. Maybe he took an extra dose. This would account for how many other athletes could take the same thing in a lesser quantity possibly and not test positive. If you look at it objectively with all of the above info, all of a sudden Caffeine is actually very likely.

Yet, you doubt it because caffeine is such a common substance that it doesn’t make NDSU look dirty like you are hoping for.

You and others here want this to be a much bigger deal than it has ever been or ever will be.

You doubting that it’s caffeine only reveals your hope that it isn’t caffeine.

They don't bring in an outside guy to provide caffeine......that's silly!!

We just differ, that's fine.  I am not trying to call anyone a liar, especially the Robbins, who seem like the biggest victim. 

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

They don't bring in an outside guy to provide caffeine......that's silly!!

We just differ, that's fine.  I am not trying to call anyone a liar, especially the Robbins, who seem like the biggest victim. 

Mr. Newman, wasn’t specifically hired to bring supplements. 

He is hired as a motivational consultant. 

[Shawn-O]

12 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Mr. Newman, wasn’t specifically hired to bring supplements. 

He is hired as a motivational consultant. 

Matt Foley has been unavailable for the last 20 years or so, so makes sense.  

[MafiaMan]

3 hours ago, Bison06 said:

Mr. Newman, wasn’t specifically hired to bring supplements. 

He is hired as a motivational consultant. 

What's his salary?  I'm willing to take the job for $150K a year...and I'll even throw in an extra Monster drink for each player before the UND game.  

[JohnboyND7]

15 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Shouldn’t the fact that you doubt caffeine as the substance raise red flags as to your own biases in this case?

I’m not saying it is caffeine, I don’t have any insider info.

But, the fact is the athlete stated he took a common pre workout drink.(caffeine is the active ingredient in most pre workout drinks). Coach Kleiman stated publicly that BR tested positive for a stimulant(caffeine is a stimulant). Caffeine is on the NCAA’s banned substances list when taken at certain quantities. Maybe he took an extra dose. This would account for how many other athletes could take the same thing in a lesser quantity possibly and not test positive. If you look at it objectively with all of the above info, all of a sudden Caffeine is actually very likely.

Yet, you doubt it because caffeine is such a common substance that it doesn’t make NDSU look dirty like you are hoping for.

You and others here want this to be a much bigger deal than it has ever been or ever will be.

You doubting that it’s caffeine only reveals your hope that it isn’t caffeine.

I'm with you on its not as big of a deal as some of the pearl clutchers are trying to make it out to be.

I'm still skeptical on the caffeine thing just thinking how people behave. 

Let's say I get arrested for drug paraphernalia or however you spell it. The police say they found residue of a common schedule one drug on the object.

If all I did was had a bag of weed and (insert smoking device), it's probably best for me to tell folks what it was. If I dont, well that's how rumors start and I'm not exactly making things better by not disclosing what it was.

Is it more likely to be marijuana than any other drug? Probably.

TL;DR - if it was caffeine, I really wish either Mr. Robbins or NDSU(if they are allowed?) said so.

For all I know there is other stuff behind the scenes that complicates disclosure or something. At the end of the day, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Hopefully he enjoyed his time at North Dakota State, and I have some big doubts that Mama Sue's dream of it hampering NDSU recruiting. 

Clemson had 3 of 18 guys fail their playoff test. They put together a top ten recruiting class and currently have the #1 class for next year. Seems 17 and 18 year olds aren't too concerned about that sort of thing.

 

[Siouxperman8]

5 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

gfhockey, duh

Damn.  Missed that one.  Great response.

[gundy1124]

35 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

I'm with you on its not as big of a deal as some of the pearl clutchers are trying to make it out to be.

I'm still skeptical on the caffeine thing just thinking how people behave. 

Let's say I get arrested for drug paraphernalia or however you spell it. The police say they found residue of a common schedule one drug on the object.

If all I did was had a bag of weed and (insert smoking device), it's probably best for me to tell folks what it was. If I dont, well that's how rumors start and I'm not exactly making things better by not disclosing what it was.

Is it more likely to be marijuana than any other drug? Probably.

TL;DR - if it was caffeine, I really wish either Mr. Robbins or NDSU(if they are allowed?) said so.

For all I know there is other stuff behind the scenes that complicates disclosure or something. At the end of the day, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Hopefully he enjoyed his time at North Dakota State, and I have some big doubts that Mama Sue's dream of it hampering NDSU recruiting. 

Clemson had 3 of 18 guys fail their playoff test. They put together a top ten recruiting class and currently have the #1 class for next year. Seems 17 and 18 year olds aren't too concerned about that sort of thing.

 

Clemson might want to invest a few more resources into their internal testing program......

[MafiaMan]

16 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

Clemson might want to invest a few more resources into their internal testing program......

Or as some might have us believe, tell their players to lay off the Mountain Dew before game-time.

[bison73]

4 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

Or as some might have us believe, tell their players to lay off the Mountain Dew before game-time.

That right there was brought forward by a UND fan awhile back. Its not as silly as you are trying to make it out to be. There are acceptable levels and then there are levels that will get you in trouble with the NCAA.

[SlowHand]

Finally!  The !@#$ show that I was waiting for continues.  Nice work all.  I appreciate every last one of you for the laughs you provide me.

 

[Siouxphan27]

8 hours ago, SlowHand said:

Finally!  The !@#$ show that I was waiting for continues.  Nice work all.  I appreciate every last one of you for the laughs you provide me.

 

You’re welcome; but it really doesn’t take much effort to get the hall monitors from Jan Brady State riled up when someone’s opinion doesn’t line up with theirs.  

[gundy1124]

17 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

Or as some might have us believe, tell their players to lay off the Mountain Dew before game-time.

Caffeine is a banned substance by the NCAA. A urinary caffeine concentration exceeding 15 micrograms per milliliter (corresponding to ingesting about 500 milligrams, the equivalent of six to eight cups of brewed coffee, two to three hours before competition) results in a positive drug test.

1st off, I believe they test after the game and give a player 1 hour to report.  The body for a player is at a high level of activity for 4 hours warm-up and game time plus another hour cool down is going to metabolize caffeine pretty quickly and for the normal Joe caffeine has a half life of 6 hours.  1 cup of coffee has the equivalent caffeine of 2 Mountain Dews.......not a scientist here but guessing with lag time, metabolism, etc., about 20 Mountain Dews will give you a positive test per NCAA.

So we have the 20 Mountain Dew Theory floating around by the SU guys, probably as believable at the Ben Newman gets paid for his speeches theory!!

[geaux_sioux]

23 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

Caffeine is a banned substance by the NCAA. A urinary caffeine concentration exceeding 15 micrograms per milliliter (corresponding to ingesting about 500 milligrams, the equivalent of six to eight cups of brewed coffee, two to three hours before competition) results in a positive drug test.

1st off, I believe they test after the game and give a player 1 hour to report.  The body for a player is at a high level of activity for 4 hours warm-up and game time plus another hour cool down is going to metabolize caffeine pretty quickly and for the normal Joe caffeine has a half life of 6 hours.  1 cup of coffee has the equivalent caffeine of 2 Mountain Dews.......not a scientist here but guessing with lag time, metabolism, etc., about 20 Mountain Dews will give you a positive test per NCAA.

So we have the 20 Mountain Dew Theory floating around by the SU guys, probably as believable at the Ben Newman gets paid for his speeches theory!!

That’s why he’s such a good motivator. Imagine how hard it is to slam those last 5 Dews right before the warmup starts.

[Gothmog]

5 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

That’s why he’s such a good motivator. Imagine how hard it is to slam those last 5 Dews right before the warmup starts.

It would not have required 20 Mountain Dews if he was already using a supplement that contained large amounts of caffeine. That was the original point. Somehow that got changed to Mountain Dew being the only source. 

[jdub27]

The supplement Newman endorses specifically states it's a low caffeine supplement. How many extra doses would be needed for that to trigger as above the allowable levels? 

[geaux_sioux]

39 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

It would not have required 20 Mountain Dews if he was already using a supplement that contained large amounts of caffeine. That was the original point. Somehow that got changed to Mountain Dew being the only source. 

It got changed into a joke Francis.

[Gothmog]

24 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

The supplement Newman endorses specifically states it's a low caffeine supplement. How many extra doses would be needed for that to trigger as above the allowable levels? 

Clean Victory Stage One contains 250 mg of caffeine per scoop. The NCAA limit is 500 mg, the caffeine content of Mt Dew is 91 mg per 20 oz bottle, and the average half-life of  caffeine in the human body is 5 hours. You do the math.

[Gothmog]

12 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

It got changed into a joke Francis.

But it isn't a joke. Caffeine is plausible.

[Siouxphan27]

11 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Clean Victory Stage One contains 250 mg of caffeine per scoop. The NCAA limit is 500 mg, the caffeine content of Mt Dew is 91 mg per 20 oz bottle, and the average half-life of  caffeine in the human body is 5 hours. You do the math.

So if I’m doing my math correctly, he took 4 scoops of steroids instead of the usual ndsu recommended 1-2?

[Mama Sue]

The Food and Drug Administration does NOT regulate these supplements.... you can put anything you want on it. A friend, not health care, is selling one of these in a  pyramid type business.... she posted her supplements are perfectly safe for pregnant women and children. I should tell her for college football players too.

Hey, do you think Juice U used Shaklee?

[bison73]

1 hour ago, gundy1124 said:

Caffeine is a banned substance by the NCAA. A urinary caffeine concentration exceeding 15 micrograms per milliliter (corresponding to ingesting about 500 milligrams, the equivalent of six to eight cups of brewed coffee, two to three hours before competition) results in a positive drug test.

1st off, I believe they test after the game and give a player 1 hour to report.  The body for a player is at a high level of activity for 4 hours warm-up and game time plus another hour cool down is going to metabolize caffeine pretty quickly and for the normal Joe caffeine has a half life of 6 hours.  1 cup of coffee has the equivalent caffeine of 2 Mountain Dews.......not a scientist here but guessing with lag time, metabolism, etc., about 20 Mountain Dews will give you a positive test per NCAA.

So we have the 20 Mountain Dew Theory floating around by the SU guys, probably as believable at the Ben Newman gets paid for his speeches theory!!

As you said youre not a scientist so your 20 Mt Dews is not fact. You also forgot taking the prework out supplement in your scenario. Plus how active was the player during the game??  Taking a prework out supplement before a game and not getting many snaps is not going to metabolize the supplement very fast.

 

So now you are inferring Newman was brought in for something other than  motivation . JFC