Grand Forks Economy

[geaux_sioux]

9 hours ago, Hammersmith said:

Ehh, more like 50 years. Can't really compare GF and Fargo; you need to compare Greater GF and the FM metro.

Year - GreaterGF/FMMetro/FM bigger than GGF percent
1960 - 84,859/106,027/+25%
1970 - 95,537/120,238/+26%
1980 - 100,944/137,574/+36%
1990 - 103,181/153,296/+49%
2000 - 97,487/174,367/+79%
2010 - 98,461/208,777/+112%
2018 - 102,299/245,471/+140%

 The growth difference this millennium is startling. Really sad to see 1980 and 2018 side by side for GF. Not that all growth is good but for fucks sake. 

[gfhockey]

Base pull out really hurt 

[Big Lubowski]

GF, the city bureaucracy, has a rep for being difficult to deal with—ask any developer from out of town. That goes a long way in people making development decisions, when there are alternatives, and there always are. (I think if Bochenski just changes that, he’ll have accomplished a lot.)

And there can be more anti-outsider bias in GF than in Fargo, imho... That’s certainly a subjective view but one that is shared by more than a few.

[petey23]

6 minutes ago, Big Lubowski said:

GF, the city bureaucracy, has a rep for being difficult to deal with—ask any developer from out of town. That goes a long way in people making development decisions, when there are alternatives, and there always are. (I think if Bochenski just changes that, he’ll have accomplished a lot.)

And there can be more anti-outsider bias in GF than in Fargo, imho... That’s certainly a subjective view but one that is shared by more than a few.

From a person who went to UND and lives in Fargo. I have a few customers in Grand Forks and when I head up north to visit them and am going to have some extra time to make a few cold calls I always try and remember to wear a UND polo or quarter zip those days instead of my company logo. 

When they ask where we are based out of the conversation might continue but it is effectively over.

[Oxbow6]

Having a mayor who for years continually looked at vaginas will cloud anyone's judgment. 

[Hammersmith]

2 hours ago, Big Lubowski said:

Do you have the same numbers for the Bismarck/Mandan metro? It would be interesting to see if those more closely followed Fargo or GF? I’m betting the former...

BisMan:

1960 - 61,280
1970 - 66,978
1980 - 86,103
1990 - 89,973
2000 - 100,828
2010 - 114,778
2018 - 132,678

 

But, hey, you could always be Wahp/Breck, which peaked in 1920.

1920 - 31,074
1930 - 30,799
1940 - 30,994
1950 - 30,432
1960 - 29,474
1970 - 27,478
1980 - 27,661
1990 - 25,664
2000 - 25,136
2010 - 22,897
2019 - 22,384

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, Hammersmith said:

BisMan:

1960 - 61,280
1970 - 66,978
1980 - 86,103
1990 - 89,973
2000 - 100,828
2010 - 114,778
2018 - 132,678

 

But, hey, you could always be Wahp/Breck, which peaked in 1920.

1920 - 31,074
1930 - 30,799
1940 - 30,994
1950 - 30,432
1960 - 29,474
1970 - 27,478
1980 - 27,661
1990 - 25,664
2000 - 25,136
2010 - 22,897
2019 - 22,384

It would be interesting to look at the % of the metros represented by GF and Fargo and also a list of the top metro towns for each and how they’ve grown over the years. Also how much growth in GF has been offset by the shrinking base?

[JohnboyND7]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:31 AM, geaux_sioux said:

Look at the growth charts for both. Post flood Fargo took off and left GF in the dust. They swing for the fences at every pitch. They’re bound to hit a ton of home runs. Meanwhile we haven’t even chosen a bat and will likely try and bunt once we do.

I see the chart also coincides with the Base downsizing substantially.

GFAFB in 1990: 9300

2000: 4800

2010: 2300

That's an awful lot of (disproportionately) young people to lose. And some of those guys/gals were sticking around when they got out of the service too (maybe they liked the area or found a spouse). 

Perhaps GF has just had all around bad luck and some self-inflicted wounds as well. 

[Cratter]

On 5/11/2021 at 10:10 PM, OgieOgilthorpe said:

... only a measly 800 were counted from the state’s 3rd largest city.

Curious where you got this number since they haven't come out from the census yet.

300 apartment units are constructed every year on average in Grand Forks for the past decade.

[NewUndFan]

On 5/12/2021 at 5:52 PM, The Sicatoka said:

Hornbacher's is now owned by Coborn's. Coborn’s operates 53 supermarkets in Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Illinois and Wisconsin under the Coborn’s, Cash Wise Foods, Marketplace Foods and Save-A-Lot banners. 

You're telling me Hugo's ran them out of town? 

I'd say WalMart and SuperTarget did the deed. 

Super value bought hornbackers . Hugo's negotiated with them that if they close their grand forks store they would change to the super value off brand of products.   Super value gets money from selling their off brand to Hugo's and closes a marginal store .  Only ones that lose are the people of grand forks losing another choice for a grocery store and Hugo's keeps their monopoly in town.   I wish someone would come in and get rid of that monopoly.  We don't need 6 Hugo's in town.  

[Hammersmith]

1 hour ago, NewUndFan said:

Super value bought hornbackers . Hugo's negotiated with them that if they close their grand forks store they would change to the super value off brand of products.   Super value gets money from selling their off brand to Hugo's and closes a marginal store .  Only ones that lose are the people of grand forks losing another choice for a grocery store and Hugo's keeps their monopoly in town.   I wish someone would come in and get rid of that monopoly.  We don't need 6 Hugo's in town.  

Not contradicting anyone here, just clarifying the timeline...

1975 - SuperValu buys Hornbacher's
2015 - Hornbacher's opens a GF location
2018(Jul) - A proxy fight of SuperValu results in its sale to United Natural Foods and the divestiture of all its grocery stores
2018(Nov) - Coborn's agrees to purchase 8 of the 9 Hornbacher's stores; only the GF location is not part of the deal
2018(Dec) - GF Hornbacher's closes
2018(Dec) - Coborn's takes possession of Hornbacher's assets

Any deal to close the GF Hornbacher's in exchange for SV/UNFI house brands in Hugo's would have had to have happened in a relatively short window in late 2018. It's also possible Coborn's just didn't want to add to their supply chain. They were already running trucks to the FM area for their four Cash Wise locations in Fargo, West Fargo, and Moorhead; maybe they didn't want to start running trucks to GF for a single store. Though a deal with SV/UNFI is certainly possible as Hugo's is currently carrying SV house brands like Essential Everyday and Wild Harvest and not SpartanNash house brands like Our Family.

[Vegas_Sioux]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:00 AM, petey23 said:

From a person who went to UND and lives in Fargo. I have a few customers in Grand Forks and when I head up north to visit them and am going to have some extra time to make a few cold calls I always try and remember to wear a UND polo or quarter zip those days instead of my company logo. 

When they ask where we are based out of the conversation might continue but it is effectively over.

Same thought process about people who drive to Fargo to fly out.  Remember when the babe Ruth baseball team made the national tournament had to have a press release about flying out of Fargo because they were required to fly American. 

[crb1]

So the Hardee’s on S. Columbia was torn down to make way for a car wash. Is that really something GF needs is another Car wash?  There are at least three on the North end, with the most recent being Rydells. You have at least three more on the south end and probably more. I was really hoping for a new restaurant in that location but I guess not. 

[gfhockey]

1 hour ago, crb1 said:

So the Hardee’s on S. Columbia was torn down to make way for a car wash. Is that really something GF needs is another Car wash?  There are at least three on the North end, with the most recent being Rydells. You have at least three more on the south end and probably more. I was really hoping for a new restaurant in that location but I guess not. 

Restaurants are still hurting. Albeit many flush with cash but all govt money 

[northernraider]

2 hours ago, crb1 said:

So the Hardee’s on S. Columbia was torn down to make way for a car wash. Is that really something GF needs is another Car wash?  There are at least three on the North end, with the most recent being Rydells. You have at least three more on the south end and probably more. I was really hoping for a new restaurant in that location but I guess not. 

Any more car washes and GF will need addition to the water treatment plant. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

people need to watch the Ozarks sometime...explains a lot about questionable business doings

[Cratter]

13 hours ago, crb1 said:

.... to make way for a car wash. Is that really something GF needs is another Car wash? 

Who would have ever saw the rise of car washes!

On 8/10/2019 at 9:47 AM, Cratter said:

Car washes, like storage units, are a "modern, easy" money making opportunities. 

The style of the proposed rydell one posted above, was "recently" opened in Fargo also.

Oh and you'll never guess what the old Ironhide Equipment (Bobcat) building became.

[Cratter]

Unlimited monthly car wash packages are great....if it wasnt for how popular they were....

[gfhockey]

34 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Who would have ever saw the rise of car washes!

Oh and you'll never guess what the old Ironhide Equipment (Bobcat) building became.

At least it didn’t sit empty and become an eye sore

[Goon]

22 hours ago, crb1 said:

So the Hardee’s on S. Columbia was torn down to make way for a car wash. Is that really something GF needs is another Car wash?  There are at least three on the North end, with the most recent being Rydells. You have at least three more on the south end and probably more. I was really hoping for a new restaurant in that location but I guess not. 

You never know when you need another car wash.  

[Cratter]

On 9/9/2020 at 12:05 PM, Cratter said:

New L.I.S.T.E.N center.

 

[Teeder11]

49 minutes ago, Cratter said:

 

Thanks, Cratter, for getting this thread back on track!  Love reading about this kind of stuff.

[SIOUXFAN97]

On 5/23/2021 at 10:30 AM, Cratter said:

 

kind of an odd location for this...shouldn't this be closer to downtown?

[Cratter]

Quote

Growth Fund Committee members approved a nearly $270,000 loan for Washington-based Core Scientific, which will set up a location in the industrial park on the west side of town. The company provides infrastructure and software solutions for artificial intelligence and blockchain users involved in mining for cryptocurrency, such as bitcoin. The loan will be used to buy down interest on commercial loans the company has taken out with Bremer and Alerus banks.

Quote

The company is expected to create 14 full-time positions, with the possibility of more. Work is being done at the location, and the goal is to have the second building erected by winter, so electrical work can happen during the cold season.

 

[northernraider]

10 hours ago, Cratter said:

 

Remember the strange data center that burned a couple years ago? What ever came out of that?