The Sicatoka Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 More details keep flowing in: Petition circulators who are no longer willing to affirm their affidavits and who weren’t named Tuesday as suspects include D.J. McNorton and Don Carter, two former NDSU football players, and Lucas Albers, who is currently a member of the team. http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373160/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'll point it out again: Jemison was about to be charged with a class A misdemeanor and is gone. These eight are about to be charged with a class A misdemeanor and yet are still there. That discrepancy begs the question: Why? What's behind the curtain to cause the difference? The NCAA loves looking behind curtains. Feel fortunate when it's not your curtain. Sic how many times do we have to point out the nature of the two incidents. Jemison was on thin ice already from what I've heard, and he pulled his dong out AT A MALL. But if you want to just leave that little part out, and just use the term "Class A Misdemeanor," more power to you. I once again point to the Poker/Rapist comparison from earlier. The problem you have with coach Bohl and your AD is, they put winning a football game ahead of shaping young men into respectable adults. You fail to remember that our AD suspended Hak for flipping off the refs for TWO games. Was that worthy of a two game suspension? No, but it set an example to everyone else that no one is above the TEAM or UNIVERSITY! Oh no! Two games out of how many in a hockey season for flipping off an official while on camera? Everyone knows these guys are going to get punished and probably suspensions. If they don't get in any trouble at all, then you can say there is a problem with Coach Bohl and Gene. All Bohl said he was going to do was see where the courts take this, not a bad idea considering the crime was not violent, sexual, or drinking related before they make decisions on what these young men will be doing. And don't even get anyone started on being above the team or university? Evere hear of Mr. Ralph Engelstad holding a University hostage? Sounds like he was above the university to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The problem you have with coach Bohl and your AD is, they put winning a football game ahead of shaping young men into respectable adults. You fail to remember that our AD suspended Hak for flipping off the refs for TWO games. Was that worthy of a two game suspension? No, but it set an example to everyone else that no one is above the TEAM or UNIVERSITY! I think you have seen the worst example of excusing and overlooking at Penn State, and that type of behavior gets started somewhere when people have a winning program that they don't want to risk. The only thing I find interesting is the defensive mechanism that Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl seem to have about the accusation. To say it's not like drugs or this or that, kind of dismisses it in a way. To me, in college you are going to have students experimenting with drugs, most prevalent alcohol. You are not as likely to have students engaging in voter fraud. There may be some circumstances where rating crimes is pertinent, but in this instance, I don't see it. So for NDSU officials to start their own rating system of crimes leaves a lot of room to set aside circumstances, or in the worst case scenario, overlook them all together. Apparently some people at Penn State didn't think molestation rose to an alarming level. and just the fact that you would even question that is mind boggling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 If you don't like that both are class A misdemeanors start a petition drive to get the law changed. Until then, the law is the law. A judge, not us, will sort out any sentencing under the law as written. As far a Bohl's handling of the situations, his different handling begs the questions: Why the difference? What's he know, what's he not saying about all the situations? Is he treating them all equally (because prima facie it sure seems not)? Bohl would've been wise, knowing about this two weeks ago by his own words, to suspend them for the Robert Morris game. He'd have taken the teeth out of the tiger then (and not be raising the "FBS game week" questions now). Someone mentioned Penn State and "deal with it right away" or it'll get worse. Ding. Another (albeit much smaller) case study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Now the underlayment of the Fargodome turf has an issue and needs to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sic how many times do we have to point out the nature of the two incidents. Jemison was on thin ice already from what I've heard, and he pulled his dong out AT A MALL. But if you want to just leave that little part out, and just use the term "Class A Misdemeanor," more power to you. I once again point to the Poker/Rapist comparison from earlier. Oh no! Two games out of how many in a hockey season for flipping off an official while on camera? Everyone knows these guys are going to get punished and probably suspensions. If they don't get in any trouble at all, then you can say there is a problem with Coach Bohl and Gene. All Bohl said he was going to do was see where the courts take this, not a bad idea considering the crime was not violent, sexual, or drinking related before they make decisions on what these young men will be doing. And don't even get anyone started on being above the team or university? Evere hear of Mr. Ralph Engelstad holding a University hostage? Sounds like he was above the university to me. Really, you think drinking in college is worse than voter fraud? Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Five Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'll point it out again: Jemison was about to be charged with a class A misdemeanor and is gone. These eight are about to be charged with a class A misdemeanor and yet are still there. That discrepancy begs the question: Why? What's behind the curtain to cause the difference? The NCAA loves looking behind curtains. Feel fortunate when it's not your curtain. Jemison was a 2nd offense I believe. And quite possibly the coach was shown surveillance of him tossing his packing around in public. A coach can't control an individual who decides to throw his junk out like Jemison, or an individual like Ojuri who drives with a suspended license...but I'd sure as heck like to believe they know what their athletes are doing for summer jobs. And a weed petition doesn't really look all that good in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Honest question for those of you who feel you can give an objective response. If this was going on at UND would you be as vigorous about your call to action for Coach Mussman? Admittedly, I can't answer your question without bias. But can I turn it around on you and ask the same line of question? If UND were in this kind of trouble, would you be putting up as vigorous a defense in favor of UND, or would the seriousness of the charges magically elevate in your mind based on the color of the football uniform? Would you assume the same "let them have their day in court" posture as you would for your beloved team if the shoe was on the other foot 70 miles north of you. Mind you, I don't know you; you can certainly make up whatever answer you want on the Internet and assume the most judicious personality, but I will find it hard to beleive that any devoted NDSU fan could ever put themselves in a position where they would be an apologist for UND. It's called "Schadenfreude" (reveling in another's --especially a bitter rival's -- misfortune.) NDSU fans do it to us; we do it to them. Life goes on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Really, you think drinking in college is worse than voter fraud? Wow! What are you guys honestly looking for? You act like these guys deserve to be kicked off the team, kicked out of school, put in federal prison and never to be heard from again. Drinking...No. But, drinking and driving is 1 million times worse than what was done here. I realize it is technically true, but to even call this voter fraud suggests they purposely tampered with an election. It was an innocent mistake that they will be punished for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 In case anyone needs to know the definition of fraud... http://www.ndsu.edu/fraud_hotline/ Perhaps an official from NDSU should read their website. It helps to create a culture that values ethical behavior, is committed to preventing and detecting fraud, and will respond decisively and appropriately to misconduct. What I was actually looking for is if this story is just a ND story or is it national? It's national... http://www.google.co...1ac.EFHM-hNwsL0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Admittedly, I can't answer your question without bias. But can I turn it around on you and ask the same line of question? If UND were in this kind of trouble, would you be putting up as vigorous a defense in favor of UND, or would the seriousness of the charges magically elevate in your mind based on the color of the football uniform? Would you assume the same "let them have their day in court" posture as you would for your beloved team if the shoe was on the other foot 70 miles north of you. Mind you, I don't know you; you can certainly make up whatever answer you want on the Internet and assume the most judicious personality, but I will find it hard to beleive that any devoted NDSU fan could ever put themselves in a position where they would be an apologist for UND. It's called "Schadenfreude" (reveling in another's --especially a bitter rival's -- misfortune.) NDSU fans do it to us; we do it to them. Life goes on. Fair point, and I will answer it the same way you have. I can't answer that question without bias. What I can tell you is that while the nickname issue was going on, I was consistently a defender of UND's position and wished them well in the face of what I saw as a politically correct society run amok. In that instance, I saw it worthwhile to defend the "right thing" regardless of my affiliation to UND's rival. I am a defender of innocent until proven guilty and with our 24 hour news cycle, nowadays an accusation is as good as a conviction in our country. I hate that these things are even newsworthy until the players are found guilty or not-guilty. It is unfair to the accused that the public becomes aware of something and is able to pass judgement months or in some cases years before the case ever goes to trial. My opinion on the matter aside, the Trayvonn Martin case is the epitome of the scenario I am describing. Regardless of whether George Zimmerman is found guilty or not guilty, his life is over. He will always be viewed as guilty in the eyes of many in our society and will most likely fear for his life every day moving forward. LSS, if we can wait to punish people until after we find out if they actually did what they are accused of, I believe you would see me always be a defender of that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sic how many times do we have to point out the nature of the two incidents. Jemison was on thin ice already from what I've heard, and he pulled his dong out AT A MALL. But if you want to just leave that little part out, and just use the term "Class A Misdemeanor," more power to you. I once again point to the Poker/Rapist comparison from earlier. Oh no! Two games out of how many in a hockey season for flipping off an official while on camera? Everyone knows these guys are going to get punished and probably suspensions. If they don't get in any trouble at all, then you can say there is a problem with Coach Bohl and Gene. All Bohl said he was going to do was see where the courts take this, not a bad idea considering the crime was not violent, sexual, or drinking related before they make decisions on what these young men will be doing. And don't even get anyone started on being above the team or university? Evere hear of Mr. Ralph Engelstad holding a University hostage? Sounds like he was above the university to me. You are reaching for something that isn't there. "Oh no! Two games out of how many in a hockey season for flipping off an official while on camera?" That statement right there shows that you and the rest of the fans at NDSU hold winning a football game to a higher standard than addressing the issue at hand. Two games in hockey can mean the difference between having home ice for the playoffs or not having them, just as losing one game in football makes the difference between home field and going on the road. The fact of the matter is, these players are not kids anymore and its time that an adult steps up and punishes them but the longer the Coach and AD sit there and "wait for things to play out", the longer this becomes a distraction. Take your licks like a man and move on! Coach Bohl and AD Taylor already know what this is (Class A misdemeanor), I don't know how clearer the state can be on this. Also, Ralph chose to donate money to build an arena for the mens hockey program (UND DOES NOT OWN THE RALPH) and with that money he was promised certain things and when those promises turned into lies he felt betrayed. He didn't rob a bank or commit a crime, so that is a non-issue. You can try and spin this anyway you want but you know there is a problem down in Fargo and it will keep getting bigger and bigger until something is done. This isn't the first time and it wont be the lasttime we hear about the NDSU team getting into trouble with the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207Sioux Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 "Drinking...No. But, drinking and driving is 1 million times worse than what was done here. I realize it is technically true, but to even call this voter fraud suggests they purposely tampered with an election. It was an innocent mistake that they will be punished for." Forgetting to buy milk at the store is a mistake. Forging signatures on a legal document is a deliberate act. Whether they intended to change the outcome of the election is irrelevant. They were paid to gather signatures; they defrauded their employer and denied all citizens of North Dakota the right to vote on the referendums. Should they be kicked off the team? Probably not, but to argue that it was an innocent mistake defines down any notion of personal responsibility to the point that it is meaningless. Life is full of choices; they all have consequences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchmaker49 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sic how many times do we have to point out the nature of the two incidents. Jemison was on thin ice already from what I've heard, and he pulled his dong out AT A MALL. But if you want to just leave that little part out, and just use the term "Class A Misdemeanor," more power to you. I once again point to the Poker/Rapist comparison from earlier. Oh no! Two games out of how many in a hockey season for flipping off an official while on camera? Everyone knows these guys are going to get punished and probably suspensions. If they don't get in any trouble at all, then you can say there is a problem with Coach Bohl and Gene. All Bohl said he was going to do was see where the courts take this, not a bad idea considering the crime was not violent, sexual, or drinking related before they make decisions on what these young men will be doing. And don't even get anyone started on being above the team or university? Evere hear of Mr. Ralph Engelstad holding a University hostage? Sounds like he was above the university to me. Or how Mr. Engelstad liked to have birthday parties for Hitler. For those who say he was cleared of befriending the neo-Nazis that was only in relation to the skinhead neo-Nazis that were counter protesting the Jewish Defense league who were picketing in front of the Imperial Pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchmaker49 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 "Drinking...No. But, drinking and driving is 1 million times worse than what was done here. I realize it is technically true, but to even call this voter fraud suggests they purposely tampered with an election. It was an innocent mistake that they will be punished for." Forgetting to buy milk at the store is a mistake. Forging signatures on a legal document is a deliberate act. Whether they intended to change the outcome of the election is irrelevant. They were paid to gather signatures; they defrauded their employer and denied all citizens of North Dakota the right to vote on the referendums. Should they be kicked off the team? Probably not, but to argue that it was an innocent mistake defines down any notion of personal responsibility to the point that it is meaningless. Life is full of choices; they all have consequences. I am sure you made many wise decisions when you were 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillySioux Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The more I re-hear Taylor from yesterday......yeeesh. How does he go home and explain to his kids why it really isnt OK to forge Daddy's signature on their report cards. After all, if 22 year olds don't have to understand it, how could adolescents be expected to? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Really, you think drinking in college is worse than voter fraud? Wow! Drinking and driving is worse than voter fraud. If any of these fellers got themselves a DUI I'd be thinking bigtime suspension or dismissal. Of course a minor isn't too big of a deal. Several of them, yes. One? No. You can try and spin this anyway you want but you know there is a problem down in Fargo and it will keep getting bigger and bigger until something is done. This isn't the first time and it wont be the lasttime we hear about the NDSU team getting into trouble with the law. There is not a problem down in Fargo. Some players on the football team tried pulling a fast one and getting paid for being lazy. It isn't like they were trying to "fraud" anyone except for the company that hired them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Drinking and driving is worse than voter fraud. If any of these fellers got themselves a DUI I'd be thinking bigtime suspension or dismissal. Of course a minor isn't too big of a deal. Several of them, yes. One? No. There is not a problem down in Fargo. Some players on the football team tried pulling a fast one and getting paid for being lazy. It isn't like they were trying to "fraud" anyone except for the company that hired them. Denial - "we do not have a problem". Anger - "It's not our fault, everyone is out to get us". Bargaining - "Just let us play this weekend against Colorado, than suspend us". Depression - "Why should we even try". Acceptance - "We made a mistake and we are going to learn from it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Drinking and driving is worse than voter fraud. If any of these fellers got themselves a DUI I'd be thinking bigtime suspension or dismissal. Of course a minor isn't too big of a deal. Several of them, yes. One? No. There is not a problem down in Fargo. Some players on the football team tried pulling a fast one and getting paid for being lazy. It isn't like they were trying to "fraud" anyone except for the company that hired them. Okay spin doctor, you are conveniently forgetting that they were interfering with an official state election; intentional or not it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Drinking and driving is worse than voter fraud. If any of these fellers got themselves a DUI I'd be thinking bigtime suspension or dismissal. Of course a minor isn't too big of a deal. Several of them, yes. One? No. There is not a problem down in Fargo. Some players on the football team tried pulling a fast one and getting paid for being lazy. It isn't like they were trying to "fraud" anyone except for the company that hired them. That will look good on their resume. "We were only committing fraud against our employer." Oh by the way, they also committed fraud against the state of North Dakota and all North Dakota citizens whether they were "trying to" or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 "Drinking...No. But, drinking and driving is 1 million times worse than what was done here. I realize it is technically true, but to even call this voter fraud suggests they purposely tampered with an election. It was an innocent mistake that they will be punished for." Forgetting to buy milk at the store is a mistake. Forging signatures on a legal document is a deliberate act. Whether they intended to change the outcome of the election is irrelevant. They were paid to gather signatures; they defrauded their employer and denied all citizens of North Dakota the right to vote on the referendums. Should they be kicked off the team? Probably not, but to argue that it was an innocent mistake defines down any notion of personal responsibility to the point that it is meaningless. Life is full of choices; they all have consequences. What this amounts to for me is being at the store with your kids and you get out to the car and it turns out one of them pocketed some candy. You take the candy back in and you know you have to punish them to teach them that actions have consequences, but they were too uneducated at that point in there life to understand money and how it is exchanged for things. Yes technically these guys are adults and are responsible for their actions, just as your kids could technically be prosecuted for shoplifting, but I am confident(no proof obviously) that if they knew that their actions were more far reaching than just taking a lazy afternoon off and still getting paid, they would have made a better decision. One game suspension sends the right message the same way grounding your kid for a few days would do the trick in the example I used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What this amounts to for me is being at the store with your kids and you get out to the car and it turns out one of them pocketed some candy. You take the candy back in and you know you have to punish them to teach them that actions have consequences, but they were too uneducated at that point in there life to understand money and how it is exchanged for things. Yes technically these guys are adults and are responsible for their actions, just as your kids could technically be prosecuted for shoplifting, but I am confident(no proof obviously) that if they knew that their actions were more far reaching than just taking a lazy afternoon off and still getting paid, they would have made a better decision. One game suspension sends the right message the same way grounding your kid for a few days would do the trick in the example I used. One game suspension is perfect for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'll point it out again: Jemison was about to be charged with a class A misdemeanor and is gone. These eight are about to be charged with a class A misdemeanor and yet are still there. That discrepancy begs the question: Why? What's behind the curtain to cause the difference? The NCAA loves looking behind curtains. Feel fortunate when it's not your curtain. They'll just put their fingers in their ears and yell really loud "Team Rules, Team Rules, Team Rules, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA!". I am friends with Mike McFeeley on Facebook and you wouldn't believe some of the crap Bison fans are putting in the comment section. One delusional person even asserted that we have no right to tell Bohl how to run his program. Yeah, I guess what happens at a public institution like NDSU is none of our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VMeister Posted September 5, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2012 What are you guys honestly looking for? You act like these guys deserve to be kicked off the team, kicked out of school, put in federal prison and never to be heard from again. It was an innocent mistake that they will be punished for. I think that's the part that doesn't sit well. At least a DUI is an impaired decision. How long would it take to forge hundreds (thousands?) of fake names? Too long for it to be innocent. I've made innocent mistakes in my life. Not once did the state Attorney General call a press conference. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I've made innocent mistakes in my life. Not once did the state Attorney General call a press conference. This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts