watchmaker49 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I wasn't aware that Kristo broke any law. Why do you mention him? Underage drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Not quite sure what the hold up is with this situation though... The fact that of eight named so far are four defensive backs, including two starting corners, has nothing to do with this. Nor does the starting RB and starting LG being another two of the eight. Move along. Nothing to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Why not just do a one gamer for all those involved for CSU game. Non conference road game, get it behind you. That would take the teeth out of it quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 So all thirteen people charged had a "high number" of errors? I find that hard to believe. It sounds to me like they don't know exactly who is guilty and who isn't at this point so how can punishments be handed out? At this point I believe that it is in the preliminary stages and Coach Bohl is justified in waiting until a few things play out. It shouldn't be to hard to figue out who's petitions had the errors on them if you look at the signiture of the circulator. As the circulator, you are responsible for the petitions you turn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Stenehjem said in an interview that it was obvious the pen and handwriting was the same in multiple situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green team Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I honestly don't know where to begin with all of the leaps and assumptions you have made in your post. Let's actually look at this from a legal perspective(I am not a lawyer, so if I make assumptions I shouldn't feel free to correct me). From what I have read in the news, the entire "team" of signature collectors is being named in this. It seems as though they do not know exactly who is guilty and who was just on the "team". Let's say for example that it was just 2 of the players who actually committed fraud and the rest of them are being named as a result of being on the "team", does it make sense to suspend all of them? I like the idea of letting this one play out, not because what was done was less of a crime, but because they aren't even sure who did what at this point and it seems as though it might be quite difficult to determine. This situation is so very different than someone showing their genitals, although I would have liked to have seen that play out as well before punishment was given. To say this shows a character flaw and that in some way this reflects leadership is asinine. What this may show is a couple of these guys were feeling lazy one sunny summer day and instead of hitting the streets to get signatures they decided to take the easy way out and sit on their butts. Good lord they are college kids. Have you ever skipped a class and then copied someones notes or had someone take your PRS clicker to a class so you still get participation points for that day? Ever had your wife take your credit card to the grocery store and sign your name? I commit fraud every day when I let my employees take the business credit card to buy office supplies. Turn me in if you want. I am not downplaying this at all, I think it is a big deal and if found guilty the players should be punished accordingly. But don't make this out to be more than it is, a couple of kids who probably felt like taking a nap and still making their $9/hour for that day or couple of days. laziness is a character flaw, one where it may prove that it led to fraud in maybe as few as 1 instance to as many as 8. Listen, from what I've gathered those that hold up convenience stores for a mere $30, are often lazy too. But when it comes time to get money rather than get a job, they go hold up a a store. The 2nd thing is, the democratic process as flawed as it is with today's Washington politicians- you would like to think a person who seeks out the job opportunity for that role of getting the petition signatures would understand the importance and magnitude of the job. If they don't want an important job, I'm sure there are some out there. The easy thing to say is go flip burgers at Mcdonalds, but I'm not going to throw that out there because the person who does that job, probably feels it's important and aims to do a good job. As of right now, it appears that a few or all of these players couldn't even give the job the respect and discipline that was required. But again, I do feel that Coach Bohl, and Gene Taylor have gone down a slippery slope here. It disappoints me, not because I'm a UND fan, but because I'm a fan of North Dakota, and this just makes us look bad, when the people in charge start to operate in a less than consistent manner. And that's really what it is...they are not acting consistent from the way they have handled one misdemeanor to another. My argument is that depending on a person's perspective- fraud could be viewed as heinous as exposure. I do, it's too bad that the leadership at NDSU doesn't at least consider it. But I guess I've got to give them a pass, they've got a big game coming up. And really, that's what it's really about. I guess your right, maybe I should cut NDSU some slack on this, because after football what does NDSU really have down there? If they lost a football game what would people think? I would think a lot more of them, if leadership wouldn't dance around things, I can tell you that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sioux football insider tweeted that UND players (Garman and Ivery) missed the Mines game due to....skipping a class. The coaches do random class checks and they werent there. Talk about two different philosophies in Fargo and Grand Forks! Way to go Muss and staff! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 It shouldn't be to hard to figue out who's petitions had the errors on them if you look at the signiture of the circulator. As the circulator, you are responsible for the petitions you turn it. Great, so when they find out exactly who did what then punishments will be handed out. Why are we so quick to rush to judgement these days? I'll admit I am a little disappointed with the inconsistency in punishments between different situations, but you have to admit the situations are very different and not all crimes are created equally even if they technically carry the same degree of severity in the law's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 That would take the teeth out of it quickly. You'd think that with all of the scrutiny college programs are under these days*, that the 'su administration might take this episode more seriously and send a message before "it plays out". *LOIC ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sioux football insider tweeted that UND players (Garman and Ivery) missed the Mines game due to....skipping a class. The coaches do random class checks and they werent there. Talk about two different philosophies in Fargo and Grand Forks! Way to go Muss and staff! You hit that one on the head. I think Muss's track record speaks for itself when it comes to discipline and consistency. Pretty black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Stenehjem said in an interview that it was obvious the pen and handwriting was the same in multiple situations. This is starting to unravel like the board game Clue...it was Prof. Plum with a candlestick in the conservatory. BTW...this scenerio is just another example of GT coming off as the complete tool he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Great, so when they find out exactly who did what then punishments will be handed out. Why are we so quick to rush to judgement these days? I'll admit I am a little disappointed with the inconsistency in punishments between different situations, but you have to admit the situations are very different and not all crimes are created equally even if they technically carry the same degree of severity in the law's eyes. I don't have to justify anything. Two weeks ago with your program, punishing a player before he "had his day in court" was just fine. Yesterday, its not. I was responding to your post about not knowing for sure who did what and based on interviews I've heard with the AG, it isn't hard as all they have to do is look at the signiture of who is responsible for each petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Great, so when they find out exactly who did what then punishments will be handed out. Why are we so quick to rush to judgement these days? I'll admit I am a little disappointed with the inconsistency in punishments between different situations, but you have to admit the situations are very different and not all crimes are created equally even if they technically carry the same degree of severity in the law's eyes. The reason why everyone wants a judgement is because Bohl has never once used the "let it play out" excuse before. Where was that line with Jose Mohler or Haynes? Now, when its 4 starters and they are playing an FBS team, its time to "let it play out". You seem to forget that they have been "charged". Not just investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 On one of the news shows on television last night they showed a more extensive interview with Gene Taylor. Gene came off very insecure and almost flustered. His response and his reasons for lack of action came off very weak and unprofessional. I think he probably realizes something needs to be done but is afraid to ruffle the feathers of Bohl and other powers to be at NDSU. It really came off rather sad. His school is now being bashed and labled as a law-breaking school. Almost every year you have major news on the NDSU football team from Best Buy to this. Question GT should be wondering is when its going to be enough? I am sure all this negative press isn't good for recruits, alumni ($$$$), and the NCAA. If the NCAA doesn't do anything they look like they only pick on the large schools (SMU, USC, Ohio State, Penn St), recruits may try to stay away from a troubled school (kinda like they did for UND with its nickname problems), and alumni will wonder if they are throwing away good money on a corupt football program. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Since it was not violence or drugs, it is OK to let them play. Straight from Bohl's mouth. He is setting himself up for an epic fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Someone sent me some light reading, some homework, if you will. Interesting document: http://fs.ncaa.org/D...e=REFERENCES_R7 Section 2.d is quite a compelling read: You are not eligible in any sport if, because of your athletics ability, you were paid for work you did not perform, were paid at a rate higher than the going rate or were paid for the value an employer placed on your reputation, fame or personal following. [bylaw 12.4] That begs two questions: - Were those lads hired because they were NDSU FB players, namely, recognizable figures due to athletic ability? - Did they perform the work they were paid for (meaning collect signatures)? I don't know the answers because the NCAA would be the ones who would have the answers and I can't figure those NCAA folks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 laziness is a character flaw, one where it may prove that it led to fraud in maybe as few as 1 instance to as many as 8. Listen, from what I've gathered those that hold up convenience stores for a mere $30, are often lazy too. But when it comes time to get money rather than get a job, they go hold up a a store. The 2nd thing is, the democratic process as flawed as it is with today's Washington politicians- you would like to think a person who seeks out the job opportunity for that role of getting the petition signatures would understand the importance and magnitude of the job. If they don't want an important job, I'm sure there are some out there. The easy thing to say is go flip burgers at Mcdonalds, but I'm not going to throw that out there because the person who does that job, probably feels it's important and aims to do a good job. As of right now, it appears that a few or all of these players couldn't even give the job the respect and discipline that was required. But again, I do feel that Coach Bohl, and Gene Taylor have gone down a slippery slope here. It disappoints me, not because I'm a UND fan, but because I'm a fan of North Dakota, and this just makes us look bad, when the people in charge start to operate in a less than consistent manner. And that's really what it is...they are not acting consistent from the way they have handled one misdemeanor to another. My argument is that depending on a person's perspective- fraud could be viewed as heinous as exposure. I do, it's too bad that the leadership at NDSU doesn't at least consider it. But I guess I've got to give them a pass, they've got a big game coming up. And really, that's what it's really about. I guess your right, maybe I should cut NDSU some slack on this, because after football what does NDSU really have down there? If they lost a football game what would people think? I would think a lot more of them, if leadership wouldn't dance around things, I can tell you that much. Quit acting like this offends you and disappoints you as a North Dakotan, this is because it is NDSU as evidenced by your obvious bias. Re-read your last paragraph and tell me you are an objective observer of the facts. If the situation were reversed you would want to let the system run it's course before coming down on your players too. I think what you are advocating for is precisely what is wrong with our justice system in the US. Why have judges if all Class A Misdemeanors are punished the same? Situations are different and require evaluating each one for intent and I do not see malicious intent on the part of the involved parties on this one. I have more of a problem that Jemison wasn't given the same consideration than I do that these players have yet to be punished. If Brandon is found Not-Guilty I believe he should be reinstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Great, so when they find out exactly who did what then punishments will be handed out. Why are we so quick to rush to judgement these days? I'll admit I am a little disappointed with the inconsistency in punishments between different situations, but you have to admit the situations are very different and not all crimes are created equally even if they technically carry the same degree of severity in the law's eyes. Whether you think it is a big deal or not, depending on what kind of line of work any of these guys want to go into once they finish college, they are going to find out how big of a deal this was. Once you check that box on an employment application, even being charged with forgery/breach of trust/fraud becomes a pretty big deal and can/will get you disqualified for jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The reason why everyone wants a judgement is because Bohl has never once used the "let it play out" excuse before. Where was that line with Jose Mohler or Haynes? Now, when its 4 starters and they are playing an FBS team, its time to "let it play out". You seem to forget that they have been "charged". Not just investigated. You mean like when Jose Mohler was the starting QB? Or kicking a player off the team completely who would have likely been a starter?(Garrett Johnson*can't remember if that is his last name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 His school is now being bashed and labled as a law-breaking school. Almost every year you have major news on the NDSU football team from Best Buy to this. Question GT should be wondering is when its going to be enough? I am sure all this negative press isn't good for recruits, alumni ($$$$), and the NCAA. If the NCAA doesn't do anything they look like they only pick on the large schools (SMU, USC, Ohio State, Penn St), recruits may try to stay away from a troubled school (kinda like they did for UND with its nickname problems), and alumni will wonder if they are throwing away good money on a corupt football program. It is in very poor taste darell to use this situation in the same breath as those schools and their situations. Good lord people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Whether you think it is a big deal or not, depending on what kind of line of work any of these guys want to go into once they finish college, they are going to find out how big of a deal this was. Once you check that box on an employment application, even being charged with forgery/breach of trust/fraud becomes a pretty big deal and can/will get you disqualified for jobs. I haven't said I don't think it's a big deal. I am saying why not find out who is guilty of what before punishments are handed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 They are big boys. They are criminals, proven by their actions. They will be punished accordingly. Except by Coach Bohl. Who runs a rogue program. His inaction in this matter proves it. Bohl runs a "rogue program?" Haha ok. The reason why everyone wants a judgement is because Bohl has never once used the "let it play out" excuse before. Where was that line with Jose Mohler or Haynes? Now, when its 4 starters and they are playing an FBS team, its time to "let it play out". You seem to forget that they have been "charged". Not just investigated. Mohler left the team because he got beat out. I'd let it play out too because honestly I don't think this is a very big deal. They were lazy and did a bad job at work. Comparing it to the Jemison thing is ridiculous considering what he did vs. what they did. Pulling your junk out in public vs. Signing people's names on some petition, two totally different things. Sounds like some people are trying to make it into a huge deal rather than looking at what it really is. It is some college kids being lazy. I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished, but I don't think anyone(other than IMO Ojuri) should be given the boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The AG thinks eight current NDSU FB players are guilty based on an investigation by the ND Bureau of Criminal Investigation. Admittedly, the AG doesn't convict them, only a judge does that, but the AG generally doesn't spend his time filing cases he can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 You mean like when Jose Mohler was the starting QB? Or kicking a player off the team completely who would have likely been a starter?(Garrett Johnson*can't remember if that is his last name) Maybe I didn't make my point clear. Why did those two not get a chance to go to trial and see if they really were guilty? He suspended Mohler and kicked Haynes off but now he does neither for these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 You mean like when Jose Mohler was the starting QB? That was a blessing to the team and program from a performance standpoint and you know it! He was brutal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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