FCS Playoffs

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, ND-fan said:

with small midmajor programs it usually they have one core program and for UND it’s Hockey

Yeah, but not many midmajor programs roll with hockey as their core program. Maybe 5 to 10 programs across the nation, tops. And many do not even sponsor football. Bottom line, I think the hockey core program model is damaging for football and basketball and doesn’t have a good track record. Furthermore, UND isn’t bucking that trend.

[UND08]

13 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Yeah, but not many midmajor programs roll with hockey as their core program. Maybe 5 to 10 programs across the nation, tops. And many do not even sponsor football. Bottom line, I think the hockey core program model is damaging for football and basketball and doesn’t have a good track record. Furthermore, UND isn’t bucking that trend.

And it certainly doesn't help the effort to buck that trend when you run your marketing and several other functions through a co-mingled arrangement with a non-profit that has a major vested interest in the continuation of hockey sucking up the vast majority of the available resources at UND.

Not a hockey hater by any means...but that arrangement hasn't been very good for the non-hockey sports imo...

[UND08]

16 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Wanting better than 7-4/6-5 isn’t popular?  Anyone who believes that isn’t paying attention. For those who aren’t going to contribute when we are not doing as well as we would like, that’s ok but then let the rest of us move on. I think assuming that because one doesn’t agree with how we get to the Championship level means they are happy with 7-4, 6-5,8-3, 9-2 is wrong. For those who see the answer as coaching changes, you may be right. Some of us look at where we are, the contracts, the resources, the facilities and think we dug such a big hole waiting to move up that it is taking more time than we like. As our resources slowly improve, and we coaching changes not on the horizon, then some have decided we have to continue to be patient. I expect us to be better next year and I think we have resources in place to be better. I may be overly optimistic but it beats complaining over and over again about things I can’t control. What I can do is go to games and send money. I can encourage kids in my community to take advantage of the tremendous academic and growth opportunities at UND. It isn’t that rare that an athlete chooses a school where his or her friends/relatives/former teammates go (especially boyfriend/girlfriend).  Like I said I may be wrong and if so, I’m ok with that. If UND changes coaches or continues to support our staff I will support UND either way. 

1 - When I think of our program...the first word I think of is "stagnant."  Nothing changes...the band plays the same songs, the gray hairs sit in the same seats, the coaching philosophy hasn't changed (with the exception of Danny who provided some excitement for awhile), and (lately) our ability to show up in big games completely disappears.  Now to be fair I look at NDSU/SDSU and see "stagnant" as well, but for very different reasons.  Their fans take their success for granted.  They stay home from playoff games because they assume they will win convincingly.  It's been that way for 7-8 years now, and believe me when I say it KILLS ME TO SAY THAT!  I'd LOVE to stay home from any game because I knew UND was going to win by 3+ scores...but their track record doesn't allow for that...even against low level D1 teams like say Drake.  My wife didn't go to UND, and I told her about how wild the atmosphere was when I was in college and was excited to show her that again.  It took five years of us going to games until we had an atmosphere like that again (2021 NDSU).  How do we fix it?  I honestly don't know...and that scares me...because maybe we can't.  Like you said, we dug ourselves a hole with the D1 move.  I'm guessing a lot of folks on here have long since digested their crow on that subject.  

2 - Are we a bad program?  Absolutely not.  I'd say we are in the top 25% of FCS.  But we lag a long way behind NDSU...and that gap isn't closing very fast (if at all).  Is it fair to compare what we've done to NDSU (and to a lesser extent SDSU)?  No...but that's the world we live in.  UND is a great place.  It served me very well.  But if we are going to recruit the same kids, and use the same schemes, and coach the same way as we did last year...then why would I think we'll be better than this year?  Lucky breaks??  That's not going to inspire me to open up my wallet any more than I currently am.  

[Kab]

Don’t knock the gray hairs

at least they attend the game and stay until it’s over

where are the younger hairs?

[UND08]

5 minutes ago, Kab said:

Don’t knock the gray hairs

at least they attend the game and stay until it’s over

where are the younger hairs?

Finding other things to do I'd guess.  The days of blind loyalty are over...you have to compete for those people and have something to offer.  Doesn't matter if it's a workplace or a football arena.

[Shawn-O]

7 hours ago, UND08 said:

And it certainly doesn't help the effort to buck that trend when you run your marketing and several other functions through a co-mingled arrangement with a non-profit that has a major vested interest in the continuation of hockey sucking up the vast majority of the available resources at UND.

Not a hockey hater by any means...but that arrangement hasn't been very good for the non-hockey sports imo...

Kennedy tried to step in on this, look where it got him.  

[The Sicatoka]

If Armacost has half a clue he'll learn from Kennedy and change approach strategy. 

[The Sicatoka]

6 hours ago, UND08 said:

Finding other things to do I'd guess.  

[Nodak78]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

If Armacost has half a clue he'll learn from Kennedy and change approach strategy. 

He would have to grow a pair.

[Irish]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:42 PM, UND08 said:

At the risk of getting myself flamed on here...I actually agree with you on a lot of aspects related to UND sports.  One thing I've found this fall is wanting better for this program than 7-4/6-5 is not popular with a lot of people!  The solution involves a lot of people and a lot of resources that starts at a level much higher than Bubba, and that's a vicious cycle.  UND's results don't inspire people to go to games/commit $$/etc...and without those $$ it's hard to invest more into the program to give it what it needs to thrive.  Meanwhile 7-4/6-5 isn't enough to make wholesale changes, especially when the current way of doing things is "cheap".  So from a business perspective the ROI is "acceptable"...but to fans like you and I who see NDSU's success and say "Why can't we do that?"...well it's a hard pill to swallow...  

If UND is going to catch up, it needs to catch lightning in a bottle and sustain some success at a level that's higher than they should currently be able to expect given their level of support.  Is Bubba in year 9 going to find that?  Doubtful...but if you make changes there's risk it could get much worse.  Seems like we are too risk averse to do anything different...so until something changes, my expectation is 7-4/6-5 and a further stagnation within the program.

Exactly this - NDSU fired Bob Babich who was 44-14 before his one losing season and brought in Bohl who gave them championships.  We had Muss for 6 years and are now on our 9th year of Bubba Ball (6 with Rudy as OC), and extended him after a 5-6 year.  See the difference.  I give as much as I can to UND athletics and have season tickets, but I would be hard pressed to shell in more money for more Bubba Ball.  Yet people wonder why we can't beat Moo U.  

[nodak651]

Marketing.  Still waiting on Pollard Phase 2 renderings and public fundraising effort.  Who gives a crap I guess.  

Are there renderings anywhere of the new coaches offices being built?  Build some hype, my god.

[Mama Sue]

5 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Marketing.  Still waiting on Pollard Phase 2 renderings and public fundraising effort.  Who gives a crap I guess.  

Are there renderings anywhere of the new coaches offices being built?  Build some hype, my god.

So I got an annual letter from the alumni assn. for donations. There was an option for some football fund I have not heard of and no expksination what the fund is used for. I am GLAD that football made the letter but there needs to be a coordinated effort. Is someone working on this? Just wondering.

[UND-FB-FAN]

20 hours ago, Kab said:

Don’t knock the gray hairs

at least they attend the game and stay until it’s over

where are the younger hairs?

I think the gray hairs deserve their fair share of criticism. Everything is interconnected. Their conservatism and “stagnant” thinking as @UND08states is not a good thing. Constantly comparing them to the student body isn’t going to produce any accomplishments for UND. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

14 hours ago, Shawn-O said:

Kennedy tried to step in on this, look where it got him.  

A higher paying job in Colorado? 
 

Kennedy was definitely on the right track by identifying and trying to rectify the corrupt Engelstad-UND agreement, but in the end just too much corruption (and crying wolf by Engelstad-McGary) to stick with that fiasco. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

6 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Marketing.  Still waiting on Pollard Phase 2 renderings and public fundraising effort.  Who gives a crap I guess.  

Are there renderings anywhere of the new coaches offices being built?  Build some hype, my god.

 

7 hours ago, Irish said:

Exactly this - NDSU fired Bob Babich who was 44-14 before his one losing season and brought in Bohl who gave them championships.  We had Muss for 6 years and are now on our 9th year of Bubba Ball (6 with Rudy as OC), and extended him after a 5-6 year.  See the difference.  I give as much as I can to UND athletics and have season tickets, but I would be hard pressed to shell in more money for more Bubba Ball.  Yet people wonder why we can't beat Moo U.  

Don’t want to start a hockey vs football argument, but with UND’s finite amount of resources, UND football is certainly limited by the degree of allocation towards hockey. Just the way it is. There isn’t enough money, time, and staff for UND (apparently) to market and build both programs to the top tier. It’s beyond disappointing, but the last 15 years definitely demonstrate it. 

[Kab]

3 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I think the gray hairs deserve their fair share of criticism. Everything is interconnected. Their conservatism and “stagnant” thinking as @UND08states is not a good thing. Constantly comparing them to the student body isn’t going to produce any accomplishments for UND. 

So us gray hairs that go to the games, support the institution, donate money and you think we deserve criticism?  We might not be able to yell as loud as we once did but many of us are there.  Not comparing to student body just wondering where they are. 
not sure what you mean by conservatism or stagnant thinking but I sure as hell don’t want to be criticized for supporting UND.

[Hawkster]

10 hours ago, Irish said:

Exactly this - NDSU fired Bob Babich who was 44-14 before his one losing season and brought in Bohl who gave them championships.  We had Muss for 6 years and are now on our 9th year of Bubba Ball (6 with Rudy as OC), and extended him after a 5-6 year.  See the difference.  I give as much as I can to UND athletics and have season tickets, but I would be hard pressed to shell in more money for more Bubba Ball.  Yet people wonder why we can't beat Moo U.  

I might be dead wrong here, but I don't think Babich was fired at NDSU.   I always thought he was "encouraged" to move on and took a better position with Lovey Smith and the Chicago Bears.   The point is NDSU didn't have to eat a year or two of his contract with Babich leaving on his own.   This may be the only way we ever rid ourselves of Bubba.   There's no way UND can afford to buy out Bubba.

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 hours ago, Hawkster said:

There's no way UND can afford to buy out Bubba.

True, but pathetic. UND extended him after a losing season!?! 
 

Ridiculous. Did Engelstad-McGary recommend that extension? 

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 hours ago, Kab said:

So us gray hairs that go to the games, support the institution, donate money and you think we deserve criticism?  We might not be able to yell as loud as we once did but many of us are there.  Not comparing to student body just wondering where they are. 
not sure what you mean by conservatism or stagnant thinking but I sure as hell don’t want to be criticized for supporting UND.

There’s always exceptions, but as a whole, the “gray hairs” aren’t doing enough. So, yes, fair criticism is warranted. By fair, I mean UND’s lack of compete ascension is certainly not entirely due to the gray hairs. There’s internal misdirection to thank for some of the issues. 

[Kab]

41 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

There’s always exceptions, but as a whole, the “gray hairs” aren’t doing enough. So, yes, fair criticism is warranted. By fair, I mean UND’s lack of compete ascension is certainly not entirely due to the gray hairs. There’s internal misdirection to thank for some of the issues. 

Please expand on what the hell you want us to do.

‘we don’t hire and fire 

[Siouxperman8]

41 minutes ago, Kab said:

Please expand on what the hell you want us to do.

‘we don’t hire and fire 

Yes - please help us grey hairs and bald heads understand.

[Wilbur]

We got certain people that know FCS picking the Incarnates over the bizen.

Do the Incarnates stay within 10 points honestly? 

[iluvdebbies]

4 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

We got certain people that know FCS picking the Incarnates over the bizen.

Do the Incarnates stay within 10 points honestly? 

I think,as always, it will come down to which team has the fewest number of "gray hairs" in their fanbase.

[Kab]

School is out

bad roads

bisen fatigue

do they draw 8000

[Wilbur]

24 minutes ago, iluvdebbies said:

I think,as always, it will come down to which team has the fewest number of "gray hairs" in their fanbase.

I'm going to have to look up where Incarnate comes from.