2022-23 University of North Dakota Hockey Season

[Frozen4sioux]

11 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

"What is... all of it?, Alex"

I fondly remember financial aid disbursement week during college. 

Fondly, yes, but also vaguely.....

[Frozen4sioux]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:08 PM, UND1983 said:

Thank heavens they will get a new weight room and workout facility.  Cannot imagine how antiquated the old one was - and it only cost 5 million

Shame they skimped on a few things to bring it under budget.

 

I'd have cut a few massively underperforming teams to get a few more machines.

On 5/2/2022 at 3:25 PM, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Was it always shared with women's soccer?

After womens hockey was executed they had to bring in a women's team to continue to comply with title IX in facilities provided for female athletes.

 

[The Sicatoka]

The REA complex (REA, Oly, Betty) was original price of over $113,000,000.00. Putting $5M into maintenance and upgrades of the facility is 4.5%. And this round cost UND nothing (as the Engelstad Foundation covered it). 

[UNDBIZ]

If Brad's reporting is correct and the money came from the Engelstad Foundation (KEM), then good for UND on getting her to give us money again.  If it actually came from the REA Foundation, it's further evidence of the arena management spending what should be UND's money in a way that may not be the most efficient or effective for the university.

[Oxbow6]

I'm all for spending $5M on the FB program if that investment can get a first down on 4th and 1 at own 20.

[tnt]

4 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

I'm all for spending $5M on the FB program if that investment can get a first down on 4th and 1 at own 20.

Yeah, we act like the UND hockey program has always been gifted everything.  At one point they had chicken wire for plexiglass and a freezing cold arena, and this was after they won a National Championship.  There is a reason that the hockey program became the face of the university, they didn't whine and complain, they just made do with what they had and started a program with a rich tradition.  I find it funny that the people that complain about the "hockey only" crowd only show up on this hockey forum to complain about the hockey program.    

[Siouxperman8]

6 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

I'm all for spending $5M on the FB program if that investment can get a first down on 4th and 1 at own 20.

REA investment since 2019 will $11 million.  I say good for them. 

If being honest - both programs have the same number of playoff wins in their last 5 seasons where playoffs were held, one. 

 

[Siouxperman8]

2 minutes ago, tnt said:

Yeah, we act like the UND hockey program has always been gifted everything.  At one point they had chicken wire for plexiglass and a freezing cold arena, and this was after they won a National Championship.  There is a reason that the hockey program became the face of the university, they didn't whine and complain, they just made do with what they had and started a program with a rich tradition.  I find it funny that the people that complain about the "hockey only" crowd only show up on this hockey forum to complain about the hockey program.    

There wasn't any technology beyond chicken wire at that time.  The NHL had the same. 

[tnt]

9 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

There wasn't any technology beyond chicken wire at that time.  The NHL had the same. 

Plexiglass started in the 40's,  UND didn't get it until the 70's.   

[jdub27]

25 minutes ago, tnt said:

Yeah, we act like the UND hockey program has always been gifted everything.  At one point they had chicken wire for plexiglass and a freezing cold arena, and this was after they won a National Championship.  There is a reason that the hockey program became the face of the university, they didn't whine and complain, they just made do with what they had and started a program with a rich tradition.  I find it funny that the people that complain about the "hockey only" crowd only show up on this hockey forum to complain about the hockey program.    

You're right. Memorial Stadium and the Hyslop were truly state of the art facilities!

Just for reference:
Memorial Stadium - Built 1927 and used through 2000/01 season
Hyslop Sport Center - Built in 1951 and used through 2004
Winter Sports Building - Built in 1936 and used through 1972
Old REA - Built in 1972 and used through 2000/01 season

 

  

11 minutes ago, tnt said:

Plexiglass started in the 40's,  UND didn't get it until the 70's.   

Some places. But not everywhere. Plenty of NHL arena's didn't install it until the 70's and early 80's.

[N of GF]

11 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

I’m sure the weights were fine in there and better than what the football team is working out in. 5 million is better spent on the HPC phase 2. Embarrassing this project is getting done first. I’m sure the outdated weight room was not the reason for some poor performances these last few years…… the Ralph is still light years ahead of most top programs, plus we have fans. Most programs won’t ever come close.

Doesn't the Ralph use Engelstad money to do an upgrade almost every summer? The score board. A few years ago was new boards. A major locker room remodel some time ago. I'm sure there are many projects I am forgetting or never even knew about.

I don't understand why so many around here insist on feeling embarrassed by decisions made by other people.

[tnt]

9 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

You're right. Memorial Stadium and the Hyslop were truly state of the art facilities!

Just for reference:
Memorial Stadium - Built 1927 and used through 2000/01 season
Hyslop Sport Center - Built in 1951 and used through 2004
Winter Sports Building - Built in 1936 and used through 1972
Old REA - Built in 1972 and used through 2000/01 season

 

  

Some places. But not everywhere. Plenty of NHL arena's didn't install it until the 70's and early 80's.

Don't think UND would stop the football team from building a new facility if a football benefactor gave them the money.  Isn't that why we are waiting on Phase 2?

[SIOUXELEVENS]

What bothers me is why should we being telling other people how to spend their money , if the Engelstads want to spend it on the hockey team their choice, just like people telling Musk he should have spent 44 billion on world hunger , his choice not anybody else. 

[fightingsioux4life]

53 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

What bothers me is why should we being telling other people how to spend their money , if the Engelstads want to spend it on the hockey team their choice, just like people telling Musk he should have spent 44 billion on world hunger , his choice not anybody else. 

The issue is that some of that money is generated by UND student-athletes. That should benefit the athletic department as a whole. That is how intercollegiate athletics is funded, whether you or I like it or not.

[iramurphy]

1 hour ago, tnt said:

Yeah, we act like the UND hockey program has always been gifted everything.  At one point they had chicken wire for plexiglass and a freezing cold arena, and this was after they won a National Championship.  There is a reason that the hockey program became the face of the university, they didn't whine and complain, they just made do with what they had and started a program with a rich tradition.  I find it funny that the people that complain about the "hockey only" crowd only show up on this hockey forum to complain about the hockey program.    

I suspect you weren’t around before the first REA. People,  including hockey fans, players, coaches, complained about the lack of facilities. Same with other sports. There wasn’t a “hockey only” crowd. The first REA wasn’t sold out the first few years because we weren’t that good. Hockey got their best crowds after home MBB games when fans walked from Hyslop over to hockey at the REA. Crowds improved only after the team improved. The timing of the Ralph and the tradition of success for the team and the growth of hockey in and outside the region at the same time created the “hockey only” faction. The program has never superseded the Academic reputation of the University as the “face of the University” outside of the hockey/sports world. Successful athletics has always boosted the popularity of institutions of higher learning. In some cases,  one can make a good argument that has happened. Alabama fb lately would be an example. NDSU even with their success in FB, is still recognized nationally for its academic reputation as an educational leader in Agriculture, pharmacy, engineering rather than for FB. l believe it has gained a growing reputation as a FB power in the sports world, but it’s academic reputation nationally supersedes it’s FB accomplishments among the majority of people. I know we have rabid fans that may disagree and they may be right,  but I think as we live and work in different parts of the country and around the world we learn that most people don’t have the same zeal for athletics and our sports teams as some of us might. 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

16 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I suspect you weren’t around before the first REA. People,  including hockey fans, players, coaches, complained about the lack of facilities. Same with other sports. There wasn’t a “hockey only” crowd. The first REA wasn’t sold out the first few years because we weren’t that good. Hockey got their best crowds after home MBB games when fans walked from Hyslop over to hockey at the REA. Crowds improved only after the team improved. The timing of the Ralph and the tradition of success for the team and the growth of hockey in and outside the region at the same time created the “hockey only” faction. The program has never superseded the Academic reputation of the University as the “face of the University” outside of the hockey/sports world. Successful athletics has always boosted the popularity of institutions of higher learning. In some cases,  one can make a good argument that has happened. Alabama fb lately would be an example. NDSU even with their success in FB, is still recognized nationally for its academic reputation as an educational leader in Agriculture, pharmacy, engineering rather than for FB. l believe it has gained a growing reputation as a FB power in the sports world, but it’s academic reputation nationally supersedes it’s FB accomplishments among the majority of people. I know we have rabid fans that may disagree and they may be right,  but I think as we live and work in different parts of the country and around the world we learn that most people don’t have the same zeal for athletics and our sports teams as some of us might. 

Wearing Sioux gear in the northwest has resulted in people asking me if I'm a pilot. UND is a flight school to many.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, tnt said:

Don't think UND would stop the football team from building a new facility if a football benefactor gave them the money.  Isn't that why we are waiting on Phase 2?

Who's arguing any of that?
The bigger question is the money coming from the REA Foundation (reserves) or the Engelstad Foundation?
If it is the latter, tough to take issue with it. If that is where they would like money to go, while it could likely move the needle more in other spots, take what is offered and say thank you.
If it is the former, then its being funded with money generated by the athletic department as a whole that were held back and not sent to the athletic department and there is some room for discussion.

[gfhockey]

It’s from KEM 

[Siouxperman8]

24 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Who's arguing any of that?
The bigger question is the money coming from the REA Foundation (reserves) or the Engelstad Foundation?
If it is the latter, tough to take issue with it. If that is where they would like money to go, while it could likely move the needle more in other spots, take what is offered and say thank you.
If it is the former, then its being funded with money generated by the athletic department as a whole that were held back and not sent to the athletic department and there is some room for discussion.

My often flawed memory is that the the scoreboard money was $2 mil from REA Foundation and $4 mil from Engelstad Foundation.

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

What bothers me is why should we being telling other people how to spend their money , if the Engelstads want to spend it on the hockey team their choice, just like people telling Musk he should have spent 44 billion on world hunger , his choice not anybody else. 

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

The issue is that some of that money is generated by UND student-athletes. That should benefit the athletic department as a whole. That is how intercollegiate athletics is funded, whether you or I like it or not.

ooops this is long.  sorry...

I think there is general confusion on REA funds vs. Engelstad Foundation funds.  This is partly caused by Kris Engelstad taking credit for the Betty when it was really just financed by them and the REA had to pay off the loan with money generated by UND athletics.  Scoreboard was 4 million Engelstad Foundation funds and 2 million REA funds.  The 3 million dollar locker room reno and this 5 million dollar reno are reportedly all from the Engelstad Foundation, and if that is the case, I'm very thankful.  I just think a lot of people don't really understand the dynamics between how UND and the REA operate, and that there is a difference between the Engelstad Foundation money and REA money and UND money.  Some people think Engelstad Foundation funds are really the REA's funds, and some people think the REA's funds are some type of donation from the Engelstad foundation.

My biggest issue is that there is a lack of transparency in regard to how and why the REA's funds get spent and allocated, especially in light of the very public fiasco about how the basketball floor was redone.  The REA puts a minimum of 500k into that fund annually, with no cap.  The REA is also supposed to give the remaining net income (after whatever is allocated) to UND.  It's not clear how the 2-3 million annual depreciation expense is considered.  In addition, there is no minimum allocation due to UND each year, and the REA allocated 0$ to UND each of the past two years - the two years prior to that combined to about 1.65 million. UND is also supposed to sign off and agree to the purpose of any of the improvement/maintenance funds before they can be used.  I think the lack of transparency and the negative publicity between UND and the REA raises some fair questions about how and why money at the Ralph is spent, and it's unfair to lambast people for doing so if the questions concern the REA's funds, rather than funds donated by the Engelstad foundation.  I think most of the complaining about this stuff was after the scoreboard announcement, because a portion (2m) of the funding came from the REA improvement fund.  It's fair and appropriate to ask questions about this, because the REA's non-profit status is based on their mission, which is to benefit UND Athletics (as a whole), and also because they collect 52% of football ticket revenue, which they fought to keep during the usage agreement negotiations, despite those games being held at a different venue.  UND has also had a basketball practice facility on their master plan for years now, and being attached to the Engelstad complex, it would make sense that at least a portion of REA improvement funds could be used there.  So, how much say does UND get in strategizing the use of REA improvement/maintenance funds?  Did UND want the funds to be spent on the scoreboard rather than elsewhere, or did UND know that the money wouldn't be spent anywhere, if not on the scoreboard?  Was the 4 million dollar donation for the scoreboard dependent on UND approving the 2 million in REA improvement funds?  Were they deciding between no scoreboard, a 4 million dollar scoreboard, or a 6 million dollar scoreboard when they granted approval for the use of those funds?  When asking that question, it would also be interesting to know how the video board improvements that were done to the Betty, at that time, were factored into the equation. 

Again, if this 5 million dollar weight room improvement is entirely a donation, more power to the Engelstad Foundation, great, thank you!  But given the history, and a lack of more in-depth reporting, I think it is fair to ask if any of the REA's funds are included in that number.  It would also be nice if Brad specifically cited his source about the 5 million dollars coming from the Engelstad Foundation.  Brad also mentions that the equipment may be used elsewhere on campus, as if they don't know for certain, so I would be really curious to know the follow up question, which would be about where it could potentially be used, and if it is in the pollard center, will it be donated or paid for? 

Also, in regard to the usage agreement stuff, I believe the Grand Forks Herald incorrectly reported that the REA aims to allocating a minimum of 500k to UND each year, as the usage agreement states that the REA aims to allocate a minimum of 500k to the improvement fund, annually.  I believe the Herald misinterpreted the language when that part about the usage agreement was initially reported, and I've contacted Brad about it - he said that he will look into it to see if a correction is needed, as the sentence about this in the usage agreement is a little ambiguous.  

It's just odd that our AD doesn't express to fans a clear plan and strategy for the improvement of the athletic department, and given that UND has struggled so much to raise money for the HPC, it's odd that there just seems to randomly be a 5 million dollar investment in the REA weight room, which I don't think UND even thanked the Engelstad foundation for publicly??  Did UND announce anything about this whatsoever?  Why not?  The whole UND/REA/Engelstad Foundation situation is just bizarre.  Like did Chaves even know about this?  There are plenty of questions worth asking, because there is both a lack of in-depth and accurate reporting, and because UND Athletics do a terrible job of communicating vision to fans.  Also, I always am going to have a lot of questions, and it doesn't always mean that I'm upset about the particular issue I'm asking questions about, such as this weight room improvement, but if I can't read a press release or read the newspaper or listen about it on the radio, to find the answers, I don't see how it is bad to ask about it and discuss it on a message board, and it doesn't mean I'm telling people how to spend their money.

[Oxbow6]

1 hour ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Wearing Sioux gear in the northwest has resulted in people asking me if I'm a pilot. UND is a flight school to many.

Walking the streets aimlessly while yelling out quotes from the movie "Airplane!" probably helps that narrative too. 

[The Sicatoka]

2 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

The issue is that some of that money is generated by UND student-athletes. 

Not if it came from the Engelstad Family Trust Foundation. (People are very sloppy with language on these matters.)

[The Sicatoka]

(I swear there's an echo in here ... because I do this every couple years ... )

If you want to learn about the various entities, and how they operate, as non-profits they file Form 990 with the IRS.

You can view those here: https://www.guidestar.org/

Ralph Engelstad Arena related entities:

• UND Arena Services Inc <-- management of facility and engages in other 501(C)(3) allowed charitable, educational activities (like running tickeing for UND)
• UND Sports Facilities Inc <-- appears to own the arena based on (depreciated) assets
• RE Arena Inc <-- operates the arena

Then there's ...

• Engelstad Family Foundation <-- effectively Ralph's estate at death, controlled by trustees Betty, KEM, Jeffrey Cooper (Ralph's friend and accountant), and assistant trustee Sean McGarry (yes, KEM's son). This is NOT the arena. And it has assets ... 
• UND Alumni Association and Foundation

[stoneySIOUX]

So, that 2022-23 UND men's hockey team, eh? Amirite? 

[The Sicatoka]

25 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

So, that 2022-23 UND men's hockey team, eh? Amirite? 

Two questions remain at top of mind with me:

- Will the returnees naturally progress and the offense produce?
- Will "Hellboy" and "The Riddler" make us forget ... what was his name again?