SIOUXFAN97 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 38 minutes ago, Bison06 said: I realize the "just leave if you don't like it" comments in our country have been vilified as racist and xenophobic over the years, but I believe it's important to discuss what most people I've heard say that actually mean when they say that. The United States is flawed, but it is also the most prosperous, equitable, self improving, welcoming, innovative(I could go on) society in the history of the known world. Note that I didn't say perfect, but what other country would even try the way we do? Our system of governance was developed by geniuses who saw the flaws in each and every other system around the world and built the United States to be different. Fast forward 250 years later and we have people who seem to want to change our country into a type of system that the people who built this country specifically avoided because they simply don't allow the types of freedoms they hoped to create for citizens of the United States. So why are we allowing people to dismantle our country from within when a free person who wants to live under certain types of laws or have a certain way of living can move there. Those systems already exist elsewhere. Live there if you want to live that way, don't ruin this amazing country. People scrimp, save, pinch every penny and scheme for generations figuring out how to get to the United States and live in this great society so they can change their life and the lives of their descendants and we are allowing it to be absolutely ruined from within. It's awful. great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman91 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 18 hours ago, The Sicatoka said: Meanwhile in Europe... https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809 There might be some interesting information in there, but I just can’t get past the comparison between COVID and the common cold. Especially the “dying off in summer” aspect. How does the author ignore what is happening outside of Central Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDvince97-01 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, jdub27 said: Agreed, no one has been right. It is a novel virus and nothing was known about it 6 months ago. But I'm still going to at least defer to the experts opinions and at least listen to what they have to say instead of completely dismissing them instead of policiticians (on either side) or keyboard virologists. As for moving forward, I'm in the same boat as you, people need to make their own decisions. Ok, but respectfully......I also deferred to the experts and have been unimpressed with their results. So, what's next? At what point do we decide ourselves what is expert opinion and hypothesis? To your second point: will we ever be allowed to make our own decisions? If not, are you ok with that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Redneksioux said: So since the federal government failed to come up with uniform standards, it’s on the individual states for not counting covid testing in a uniform manner. Got it. Not sure what this mistake proves other than covid response in this country has been a $hit show. It has exposed many mayors and governors as being political hacks that is for sure. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman91 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 46 minutes ago, Bison06 said: I realize the "just leave if you don't like it" comments in our country have been vilified as racist and xenophobic over the years, but I believe it's important to discuss what most people I've heard say that actually mean when they say that. The United States is flawed, but it is also the most prosperous, equitable, self improving, welcoming, innovative(I could go on) society in the history of the known world. Note that I didn't say perfect, but what other country would even try the way we do? Our system of governance was developed by geniuses who saw the flaws in each and every other system around the world and built the United States to be different. Fast forward 250 years later and we have people who seem to want to change our country into a type of system that the people who built this country specifically avoided because they simply don't allow the types of freedoms they hoped to create for citizens of the United States. So why are we allowing people to dismantle our country from within when a free person who wants to live under certain types of laws or have a certain way of living can move there. Those systems already exist elsewhere. Live there if you want to live that way, don't ruin this amazing country. People scrimp, save, pinch every penny and scheme for generations figuring out how to get to the United States and live in this great society so they can change their life and the lives of their descendants and we are allowing it to be absolutely ruined from within. It's awful. What exactly is being ruined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, wxman91 said: What exactly is being ruined? Nikita Khrushchev said it about destroying America. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bison06 Posted July 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, wxman91 said: What exactly is being ruined? First amendment has already been nullified with the use of the term "hate speech" being legally enforceable. Public college campuses have become bastions of censorship. Twitter, facebook, instagram and google are knowingly and admittedly censoring conservative posts. During Covid, the right to peaceably assemble has become a crime, unless you are protesting. But you have to be protesting for BLM, if you protest for being able to open your business at the state capital it's against the law. There is a reason they wrote this one down first, without this one, the rest don't matter. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 24 minutes ago, petey23 said: It has exposed many mayors and governors as being political hacks that is for sure. Frey and Walz are holding on line one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman91 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bison06 said: First amendment has already been nullified with the use of the term "hate speech" being legally enforceable. Public college campuses have become bastions of censorship. Twitter, facebook, instagram and google are knowingly and admittedly censoring conservative posts. During Covid, the right to peaceably assemble has become a crime, unless you are protesting. But you have to be protesting for BLM, if you protest for being able to open your business at the state capital it's against the law. There is a reason they wrote this one down first, without this one, the rest don't matter. Whole bunch of wrong in here. Hate speech is constitutional College campuses can decide who to invite or not invite to speak, not a 1st amendment issue Social media is private business, not a 1st amendment issue Court challenges to the Constitutionality of COVID restrictions have been thrown out - see: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10451 How many of those protesters in Michigan that showed up like a militia were arrested? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, wxman91 said: Whole bunch of wrong in here. Hate speech is constitutional College campuses can decide who to invite or not invite to speak, not a 1st amendment issue Social media is private business, not a 1st amendment issue Court challenges to the Constitutionality of COVID restrictions have been thrown out - see: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10451 How many of those protesters in Michigan that showed up like a militia were arrested? Great points. One could argue if it weren’t for the president calling everything he doesn’t agree with fake news, the above would have been well understood already. Talk about infringing on the first amendment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlop Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, wxman91 said: Whole bunch of wrong in here. Hate speech is constitutional College campuses can decide who to invite or not invite to speak, not a 1st amendment issue Social media is private business, not a 1st amendment issue Court challenges to the Constitutionality of COVID restrictions have been thrown out - see: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10451 How many of those protesters in Michigan that showed up like a militia were arrested? If a college and/or social media site wants to only report the far left version of events so be it.....but then own who you are and don't be afraid to announce yourself as a "Democrat" college....or a "liberal" social media site. In the case of colleges, it seems like a the publicly funded aspect of it might cause problems when it comes to being prejudiced towards certain beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, wxman91 said: Whole bunch of wrong in here. Hate speech is constitutional College campuses can decide who to invite or not invite to speak, not a 1st amendment issue Social media is private business, not a 1st amendment issue Court challenges to the Constitutionality of COVID restrictions have been thrown out - see: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10451 How many of those protesters in Michigan that showed up like a militia were arrested? 1. You're correct, I misspoke, it is protected by the first amendment. But if it is up to our left leaning friends that will soon be a thing of the past. 2. Public college campuses do not get to decide who speaks beyond time, place and manner restrictions. This is public property, absolutely a first amendment issue.https://www.aclu.org/other/speech-campus#:~:text=Of course%2C public colleges and,campus on their own initiative. It is people who have been invited by students who have been not allowed to speak, to be clear. 3. This assertion is being rightfully challenged vigorously. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-preventing-online-censorship/. They have far too much power as a 'forum' to be allowed to censor in this way. 4/5. Though they may not have been arrested they were treated very differently than the protests involving BLM. A better example would have been churches being forced closed and pastors arrested during lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, Blackheart said: Frey and Walz are holding on line one. ....and on cue Walz uses his executive power to extend the state's peacetime emergency for another 30 days. Could not handled the rioting, looting, criminal activity and burning within his state but now trying once again to show he's not a eunuch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman91 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, Bison06 said: 1. You're correct, I misspoke, it is protected by the first amendment. But if it is up to our left leaning friends that will soon be a thing of the past. 2. Public college campuses do not get to decide who speaks beyond time, place and manner restrictions. This is public property, absolutely a first amendment issue.https://www.aclu.org/other/speech-campus#:~:text=Of course%2C public colleges and,campus on their own initiative. It is people who have been invited by students who have been not allowed to speak, to be clear. 3. This assertion is being rightfully challenged vigorously. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-preventing-online-censorship/. They have far too much power as a 'forum' to be allowed to censor in this way. 4/5. Though they may not have been arrested they were treated very differently than the protests involving BLM. A better example would have been churches being forced closed and pastors arrested during lockdown. To #1, 15 seconds on Wikipedia would show you that the last two hate speech cases that got to the high court were decided 8-1 and 9-0 as protected by the 1st Amendment. In other words, you are full of crap. To #3, make the internet a regulated utility and then we can talk. The Michigan militia was cheered by the right and the protesters by the left. What was the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, wxman91 said: To #1, 15 seconds on Wikipedia would show you that the last two hate speech cases that got to the high court were decided 8-1 and 9-0 as protected by the 1st Amendment. In other words, you are full of crap. To #3, make the internet a regulated utility and then we can talk. The Michigan militia was cheered by the right and the protesters by the left. What was the difference? I already admitted I misspoke. But that doesn't nullify that fact that free speech and the foundations of this country are absolutely under attack. BLM is chanting abolish capitalism at all of their rallies. If you don't think that undercuts the foundations of our society, nothing I say will convince you so I'll stop wasting my time. Twitter and facebook and google have the ability to influence elections based on their censorship, would you be ok with that if a right leaning company wielded that power? It doesn't bother you because it isn't your ox being gored...yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman91 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bison06 said: I already admitted I misspoke. But that doesn't nullify that fact that free speech and the foundations of this country are absolutely under attack. BLM is chanting abolish capitalism at all of their rallies. If you don't think that undercuts the foundations of our society, nothing I say will convince you so I'll stop wasting my time. Twitter and facebook and google have the ability to influence elections based on their censorship, would you be ok with that if a right leaning company wielded that power? It doesn't bother you because it isn't your ox being gored...yet. FoxNews influences elections every night. By the way, I let the conservative censorship opinion of yours go the first time, but now I’ll challenge it. I call bull$%!#. Kicking off Milo and Laura and fact checking lies from the President are not censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, wxman91 said: FoxNews influences elections every night. By the way, I let the conservative censorship opinion of yours go the first time, but now I’ll challenge it. I call bull$%!#. Kicking off Milo and Laura and fact checking lies from the President are not censorship. Apples and oranges comparison and that is the exact contention the president is making in the link I gave you. If you are going to censor actively, you are a news station and people should be made aware that they aren't posting on an open forum that allows equal rights to both sides of the conversation. Twitter has admitted to censorship of right leaning ideas. Did they fact check Obama the way they have Trump. You seem like an intelligent person. view it without your bias and it will become obvious they go well beyond fact checking. Again, ask yourself, if you'd be ok with this if it was turned the other way. If fox news wielded as much power as twitter, facebook and google, my guess is you'd have something more to say about their influence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Twitter has about 2% of our population as users, IIRC. Those using social media as abarometer for the election are going to be disappointed. The unsilent minority represents very few in actuality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXFAN97 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, UND1983 said: Twitter has about 2% of our population as users, IIRC. Those using social media as abarometer for the election are going to be disappointed. The unsilent minority represents very few in actuality. exactly! if everyone thought that twitter represented the current affairs in 'Merica they would think is pure chaos and destruction...take the 10 blueest of the blue counties...not even cities...just counties and ignore them and don't visit/live there and 'Merica is quite nice...just go for a walk and you'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, UND1983 said: Twitter has about 2% of our population as users, IIRC. Those using social media as abarometer for the election are going to be disappointed. The unsilent minority represents very few in actuality. The stats I've read say it's 20% https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/02/10-facts-about-americans-and-twitter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman91 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, UND1983 said: Twitter has about 2% of our population as users, IIRC. Those using social media as abarometer for the election are going to be disappointed. The unsilent minority represents very few in actuality. I worry a bit that the right is in complete denial about Trump’s overall status in this country. On some level, I find it a bit humorous that they are clinging to (and overstating) what happened in 2016 while ignoring 2018, but it becomes much more concerning when you think about how Trump will cry voter fraud and how his sheep will follow. Make no mistake, if the election were to be held today, it would be a bloodbath. There is certainly time for Biden to screw it up, but the denial by some on the right is eye-opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXFAN97 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bison06 said: The stats I've read say it's 20% https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/02/10-facts-about-americans-and-twitter/ don't know if they can really really find out because there are lots and lots of bots out there that are like whack-a-moles....twitter deletes them one day and ten more show up the next day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXFAN97 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, wxman91 said: I worry a bit that the right is in complete denial about Trump’s overall status in this country. On some level, I find it a bit humorous that they are clinging to (and overstating) what happened in 2016 while ignoring 2018, but it becomes much more concerning when you think about how Trump will cry voter fraud and how his sheep will follow. Make no mistake, if the election were to be held today, it would be a bloodbath. There is certainly time for Biden to screw it up, but the denial by some on the right is eye-opening. black votes can/normally decides elections...that's why they are scared of blexit and people like candance owens....AND nothing will get the black vote out like the good ole 1994 crime bill authoer joe joe biden...black people will be waiting for hours to vote for that fraud...yeah right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, wxman91 said: I worry a bit that the right is in complete denial about Trump’s overall status in this country. On some level, I find it a bit humorous that they are clinging to (and overstating) what happened in 2016 while ignoring 2018, but it becomes much more concerning when you think about how Trump will cry voter fraud and how his sheep will follow. Make no mistake, if the election were to be held today, it would be a bloodbath. There is certainly time for Biden to screw it up, but the denial by some on the right is eye-opening. Non sequitur, but I'm actually of the opinion that Biden will win. Broad characterization of people who vote for Trump isn't helpful at all and IMO is the reason he got elected in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, wxman91 said: I worry a bit that the right is in complete denial about Trump’s overall status in this country. On some level, I find it a bit humorous that they are clinging to (and overstating) what happened in 2016 while ignoring 2018, but it becomes much more concerning when you think about how Trump will cry voter fraud and how his sheep will follow. Make no mistake, if the election were to be held today, it would be a bloodbath. There is certainly time for Biden to screw it up, but the denial by some on the right is eye-opening. I think you are overvaluing how good Biden is really doing but we will see. The silent part of the country is quite numerous. I will also revisit these posts in early November. I mean that sincerely as a righty, MAGA, Trump lover who hates everyone but white people (did I do that right?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts