Who’s Next?

[ND-fan]

What did university of South Dakota pay for there new head coach Todd Lee  last year that should be comparable for compensation here at UND. I suspect were going to find were at the bottom of pay structure for division I schools in compensation. I got to believe this was part of coach Jones decision and hard to keep quality assistants and to even add additional assistants to lessen their time on the job. I look at this way he could become assistant at larger division I school and make more money than he has been making and be able to spend more time now with his family time he can't recover later. I think we lost quality individual here and we may never know how much he put into this program over the years. I got to believe were going to find out how under funded we have been in men's basketball and my guess several of other sports here too. My guess its going to take a lot more money to get next coach in place here and also the assistant coaches pay structures will need to be addressed. 

 

[Hammersmith]

30 minutes ago, ND-fan said:

What did university of South Dakota pay for there new head coach Todd Lee  last year that should be comparable for compensation here at UND. I suspect were going to find were at the bottom of pay structure for division I schools in compensation. I got to believe this was part of coach Jones decision and hard to keep quality assistants and to even add additional assistants to lessen their time on the job. I look at this way he could become assistant at larger division I school and make more money than he has been making and be able to spend more time now with his family time he can't recover later. I think we lost quality individual here and we may never know how much he put into this program over the years. I got to believe were going to find out how under funded we have been in men's basketball and my guess several of other sports here too. My guess its going to take a lot more money to get next coach in place here and also the assistant coaches pay structures will need to be addressed. 

 

Todd Lee base salary around $265k. That was from May 2018 and only what he got from the state. If he has incentives or external monies, I don't think it would be part of the $265k. TJ at SDSU was listed at $350k on the same BoR report.

If there was any way to get a true apples to apples comparison, I'd expect to see UND in the bottom 25% of DI coaching salaries(including budgets for assistants).; maybe even bottom 15%. I figure NDSU is no better than 10% above whatever UND is. So if UND is bottom 25%, NDSU is bottom 35% or worse. Neither school is anywhere near as good a position as most of their respective fans think. IMO.

[sioux24/7]

12 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

Todd Lee base salary around $265k. That was from May 2018 and only what he got from the state. If he has incentives or external monies, I don't think it would be part of the $265k. TJ at SDSU was listed at $350k on the same BoR report.

If there was any way to get a true apples to apples comparison, I'd expect to see UND in the bottom 25% of DI coaching salaries(including budgets for assistants).; maybe even bottom 15%. I figure NDSU is no better than 10% above whatever UND is. So if UND is bottom 25%, NDSU is bottom 35% or worse. Neither school is anywhere near as good a position as most of their respective fans think. IMO.

As someone who is an idiot in this, what makes SD be in such better position to pay their coaches than us? Does hockey have to do with that?

[UofND-Alum]

Been interesting following this thread and seeing the strong consideration for a locally (midwest) connected individual as next head coach.

As much as I think its recruiting related, you could also add it will help in fundraising. Someone with UND ties like Herbst would help in that department! His family ties to the area are just as strong as others mentioned. His wife and family are from GF! 

Dont think anyone would say he isnt a top notch recruiter...that has been proven. And as post above stated, he won in the NSIC at much worse job then Northern, Moorhead and Bemidji.

Plus you add fact he has coached and recruited in the Summit.

Other candidates are good...but best fit is Herbst. It would be a dissapointment for them not to interview him for the job...With his past time here.

The support for Phillups is comical in its self. Saul thinks he is Miles and everything is a joke. Those antics get old....ask area high school and AAU coaches from ND and MN and many will agree.

As a alumnus I want a leader of the program that has demonstrated a strong work ethic to recruit, has ties to UND and red river area, demonstrated successful head coaching experience, and in addition knows what it takes to win in the Summit league.

Herbst = check, check, check and check.

Love the support I hear he is getting from past players, Rich Glas and Coach Gunther. Sais a lot coming from them.

 

[SiouxVolley]

Basketball coaches salaries are generally grouped by conference

The P5 and Big East coaches make in the millions, because those conferences have big time TV contracts.

A few others do too, like Gonzaga, Wichita St, and others in the AAC.

The MVC, MWC and the A10 are at the next level.

The Horizon League teams are on the next level, because they don’t have football, except Youngstown St, so the HL through more resources at their one major sport,

Since UND has football and hockey, the pot gets diluted even more, as mbb is the third most popular sport.

Look at similar examples:

UNH pays $155 k a year 

Maine pays $160 k a year

Vermont doesn’t have fb, and its coach makes $100 more than their two state rivals.  But Vermont is head and shoulder above those other two in NCAA bids.

uNO’s coach makes $170 k, and it only has two major sports now.

EWU, where Chaves was in charge, paid $130 k.

Montana pays DeCuire $155 k, soon to be $175 k.

Montana St paid Fish $158 k, plus bonuses and incentives and other $ for running camps etc.

Arguably, at USD and SDSU, mbb is their top sport.

A new DI coach with no DI HC experience, would take the job just for the experience, and then move up.  Such is  the nature of DI, see SDSU losing its last two coaches to Wright St and UNLV.

A coach has to have special ties to stay, see Wichita State but Marshall makes over $1 million.

Texas Tech’s coach Beard, fresh off the Final Four run, just got a major increase and long term contract for almost $4.6 mill per year.

[SiouxVolley]

About half the coaches on Miller’s list don’t qualify under the job listing posted in his new article.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/basketball/4607615-und-posts-mens-basketball-job-prioritizes-local-ties

[Hammersmith]

1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said:

Basketball coaches salaries are generally grouped by conference

The P5 and Big East coaches make in the millions, because those conferences have big time TV contracts.

A few others do too, like Gonzaga, Wichita St, and others in the AAC.

The MVC, MWC and the A10 are at the next level.

The Horizon League teams are on the next level, because they don’t have football, except Youngstown St, so the HL through more resources at their one major sport,

Since UND has football and hockey, the pot gets diluted even more, as mbb is the third most popular sport.

Look at similar examples:

UNH pays $155 k a year 

Maine pays $160 k a year

Vermont doesn’t have fb, and its coach makes $100 more than their two state rivals.  But Vermont is head and shoulder above those other two in NCAA bids.

uNO’s coach makes $170 k, and it only has two major sports now.

EWU, where Chaves was in charge, paid $130 k.

Montana pays DeCuire $155 k, soon to be $175 k.

Montana St paid Fish $158 k, plus bonuses and incentives and other $ for running camps etc.

Arguably, at USD and SDSU, mbb is their top sport.

A new DI coach with no DI HC experience, would take the job just for the experience, and then move up.  Such is  the nature of DI, see SDSU losing its last two coaches to Wright St and UNLV.

A coach has to have special ties to stay, see Wichita State but Marshall makes over $1 million.

Texas Tech’s coach Beard, fresh off the Final Four run, just got a major increase and long term contract for almost $4.6 mill per year.

Not really sure what the point of this post was. The format didn't help it any. I think the quicker way to say it would be that the average Summit and Big Sky MBB coaching salaries are among the lowest in DI. Not the very bottom, but only a few spots from it. And UND was the lowest or second lowest in the Big Sky, and will likely be the second or third lowest in the Summit. After looking at more salaries, I think I have to revise my earlier thoughts. I had UND at bottom 25%, maybe bottom 15%. Now I'm thinking bottom 15%, maybe bottom 10%. Especially when you factor in the pool for assistants(someone on a different board reported $160k split between 4 assistant coaches). Have to face that it will be tough to win at UND without being able to get or keep good assistants. Continuity and quality will be very difficult to maintain.

 

As for all the schools listed in the post above, maybe this format will be easier to understand. I also updated salaries when newer numbers were available, or noted how out of date the numbers were if I couldn't find a newer one. I tried to use base salaries for the most part unless the only recent number available was total.

 

Wichita St - $3.5M
SDSU - $350k base
Weber - $345k+ base (3 years out of date)
Vermont - $309k base
Sac St - $290k total
USD - $265k base
NDSU - $195k base (3 years out of date)
UNH - $185k base
Montana - $175k base (negotiating again this year)
Omaha - $175k base
Maine - $165k base
Mont St - $158k+ base (2 years out of date - $200k+ w/ bonuses)
UND - $140k base (2 years out of date)
EWU - $140k base
 

 

Here are the Summit schools:

SDSU - $350k base
USD - $265k base
ORU - was $435k under Sutton, now mid $200s
Denver - $230k base (1 year out of date)
NDSU - $195k base (3 years out of date)
Omaha - $175k base
UND - $140k base (2 years out of date)
PUFW - $132k base (3 years out of date)
WIU - $132k base

To me it looks like four tiers. SDSU is all by itself at the top. USD, ORU and Denver are clustered in the mid $200s. Then NDSU and Omaha are in the high $100s. Finally, you have UND, PUFW & WIU all hanging around near $135k-$140k. 

[SiouxVolley]

11 hours ago, Hammersmith said:

Not really sure what the point of this post was. The format didn't help it any. I think the quicker way to say it would be that the average Summit and Big Sky MBB coaching salaries are among the lowest in DI. Not the very bottom, but only a few spots from it. And UND was the lowest or second lowest in the Big Sky, and will likely be the second or third lowest in the Summit. After looking at more salaries, I think I have to revise my earlier thoughts. I had UND at bottom 25%, maybe bottom 15%. Now I'm thinking bottom 15%, maybe bottom 10%. Especially when you factor in the pool for assistants(someone on a different board reported $160k split between 4 assistant coaches). Have to face that it will be tough to win at UND without being able to get or keep good assistants. Continuity and quality will be very difficult to maintain.

 

As for all the schools listed in the post above, maybe this format will be easier to understand. I also updated salaries when newer numbers were available, or noted how out of date the numbers were if I couldn't find a newer one. I tried to use base salaries for the most part unless the only recent number available was total.

 

Wichita St - $3.5M
SDSU - $350k base
Weber - $345k+ base (3 years out of date)
Vermont - $309k base
Sac St - $290k total
USD - $265k base
NDSU - $195k base (3 years out of date)
UNH - $185k base
Montana - $175k base (negotiating again this year)
Omaha - $175k base
Maine - $165k base
Mont St - $158k+ base (2 years out of date - $200k+ w/ bonuses)
UND - $140k base (2 years out of date)
EWU - $140k base
 

 

Here are the Summit schools:

SDSU - $350k base
USD - $265k base
ORU - was $435k under Sutton, now mid $200s
Denver - $230k base (1 year out of date)
NDSU - $195k base (3 years out of date)
Omaha - $175k base
UND - $140k base (2 years out of date)
PUFW - $132k base (3 years out of date)
WIU - $132k base

To me it looks like four tiers. SDSU is all by itself at the top. USD, ORU and Denver are clustered in the mid $200s. Then NDSU and Omaha are in the high $100s. Finally, you have UND, PUFW & WIU all hanging around near $135k-$140k. 

I know what the jist of your post was, as always.  NDSU is so superior.

As a school that has mbb as its third revenue sport, behind hockey and fb, that makes a difference in salaries, was a major point.  But Bizen always argue that hockey takes away from true sports, so it feeds into your narrative.

The salary differences between Summit teams does not make much difference as they all have entry level DI head coaches.  Don’t see coaches jump from one Summit school to another because the pay increase would not be worth the hassle.

Summit league lose their coaches to higher level leagues that pay at least double or more,  but since NDSU is a top tier school, that can not be remotely possible in your tiny mind.

Summi teams get new DI HC’s, or maybe washed up ones that are looking to rebound.  It’s effectively a HC nursery school..

 

[gfhockey]

What happens to the $2mm that we saved when we dumped women’s hockey?

[Oxbow6]

Posting prioritizes local ties. Does Lowell apply? 

[JohnboyND7]

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

I know what the just of your post was, as always.  NDSU is so superior.

As a school that has mbb as its third revenue sport, behind hockey and fb, that makes a difference in salaries, was a major point.  But Bizen always argue that hockey takes away from true sports, so it feeds into your narrative.

The salary differences between Summit teams does not make much difference as they all have entry level DI head coaches.  Don’t see coaches jump from one Summit school to another because the pay increase would not be worth the hassle.

Summit league lose their coaches to higher level leagues that pay at least double or more,  but since NDSU is top tier school, that can not be remotely possible in your tiny mind.

Summi teams get new DI HC’s, or maybe washed up ones that are looking to rebound.  It’s effectively a HC nursery school..

 

Man....you have a big league Napoleon Complex lmao. 

[UND1983]

15 hours ago, UND1983 said:

Please explain the SP won with Miles players comment....

Still waiting.......................................................................

[Cratter]

4 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

As a school that has mbb as its third revenue sport, behind hockey and fb, that makes a difference in salaries, was a major point.  

I can't believe how little NDSU pays its mens basketball coach. 

Especially for being the #2 sport on campus.

[sioux24/7]

9 minutes ago, Cratter said:

I can't believe how little NDSU pays its mens basketball coach. 

Especially for being the #2 sport on campus.

Richman.... more like Poorman!!!! IALTO

[UNDBIZ]

3 hours ago, gfhockey said:

What happens to the $2mm that we saved when we dumped women’s hockey?

Well the state cut UND's budget by around $30 million at that time, so it's hard to reallocate money you don't have.

[Siouxperfan7]

5 minutes ago, sioux24/7 said:

Richman.... more like Poorman!!!! IALTO

 

[SIOUXFAN97]

11 hours ago, sioux24/7 said:

As someone who is an idiot in this, what makes SD be in such better position to pay their coaches than us? Does hockey have to do with that?

wondered this for years...would love to hear it from the horses mouth (und pres or chaves) !!!!!!!!! instead of just guessing....how does a city like vermillion (usd) compared to und pay more...waaaaay more.

[Cratter]

16 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

wondered this for years...would love to hear it from the horses mouth (und pres or chaves) !!!!!!!!! instead of just guessing....how does a city like vermillion (usd) compared to und pay more...waaaaay more.

It is odd. It's not like these schools (NDSU or UND) can't afford another $100,000 a year for their head coach(es).

Pay Bubba S and the men's basketball coach another $100,000 a year each. The athletic department can't afford another $200,000 a year?

They are now not having to pay a few expensive sports or coaches they did a few years ago. Heck youd think a few donors could easily cover the increased costs. 

$13.3 or $13.5 million.

https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/und-sports-programs-lost-13-3-million-2016/

[nodak651]

14 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

wondered this for years...would love to hear it from the horses mouth (und pres or chaves) !!!!!!!!! instead of just guessing....how does a city like vermillion (usd) compared to und pay more...waaaaay more.

Guessing it's partly due to title 9 issues.  It's more than just MBB that we would have to raise money for.  But again, that's another guess.  Email Chaves or Alex Heinert - they have a weekly podcast to discuss this type of stuff.

[sioux24/7]

So I also reached out to Ben McCollum and surprisingly received an email back. Not much to it just said he read my email and wasn’t sure what his career will bring. 

[zonadub]

12 hours ago, sioux24/7 said:

As someone who is an idiot in this, what makes SD be in such better position to pay their coaches than us? Does hockey have to do with that?

As someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Even though hockey is the cash cow of UND athletics, how much of their profits are shared with other teams? SDSU and USD basketball rules their winter program - and here is the Catch 22 of that... they have higher bb attendance, have more budget $ available for bb and so can pay their coaches more. This all leads to more wins which leads to higher attendance, more $...

This seems overly simplistic, but would UND's athletic budget without $600k going to hockey coaches plus airfare and lodging and training table and facilities have more $ available for football and basketball? Again, I understand that hockey lifts the boat, but (especially under the REA agreement as it stands) does it really lift all boats?

I understand this is not a popular view, but just want to pose the question.

[SIOUXFAN97]

7 minutes ago, zonadub said:

As someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Even though hockey is the cash cow of UND athletics, how much of their profits are shared with other teams? SDSU and USD basketball rules their winter program - and here is the Catch 22 of that... they have higher bb attendance, have more budget $ available for bb and so can pay their coaches more. This all leads to more wins which leads to higher attendance, more $...

This seems overly simplistic, but would UND's athletic budget without $600k going to hockey coaches plus airfare and lodging and training table and facilities have more $ available for football and basketball? Again, I understand that hockey lifts the boat, but (especially under the REA agreement as it stands) does it really lift all boats?

I understand this is not a popular view, but just want to pose the question.

shouldn't our video boards, cantina, and liquor sales offset the extra 500 fans they get more than us....

[Cratter]

2018 Average Mens Basketball Attendance:

SDSU 2,292

UND 1,865

[MoSiouxFan]

1 hour ago, sioux24/7 said:

So I also reached out to Ben McCollum and surprisingly received an email back. Not much to it just said he read my email and wasn’t sure what his career will bring. 

He responded to my email as well.  I hope that he applies, but he's coaching at his alma mater now.  However, he doesn't have a whole lot more to prove there, having won two national titles in the last three years and 7 of the last 8 conference titles.  I was trying to find his current salary, but have been unable to so far.

[philjackson]

3 hours ago, UND1983 said:

Still waiting.......................................................................

I was actually referring to the first two seasons where he actually had one of the better LM teams in the country. He did a very good job not taking anything away from him, so I stand corrected. I guess I'm trying to understand the reason why you would hire him after back to back 14-17 seasons at a job where they can "buy" teams to come and play. His record within the league was not very good...the furthest that he made it in the MAC tournament was the semifinals as well.