Who would UND hire?

[Dustin]

6 minutes ago, Irish said:

It used to be a great rivalry - every town had a contingent of NDSU fans and one of UND fans.  Game day was a big event.  Now outside of Grand Forks there isn't much of a UND following and on game day we just have to hope it isn't a blow out.  Our failure to move up when they did and our commitment to mediocre coaches who are allowed to stay too long has made this rivalry a joke.

Indeed.  The question was WHY we want to compare our FB program to NDSU’s.  I think I laid that out pretty bare.  Again, surprised he would have to ask.  I think all were asking for is to have what we once had - a classic in-state college FB rivalry that you get to have a shared experience with all the people, UND and NDSU alike.

[Shawn-O]

I'll just leave these here. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/615807/ncaa-frozen-four-viewership/
https://herosports.com/fcs-football-tv-viewership-ratings-playoffs-bzbz/

[Dustin]

21 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

They are ahead in playoff wins, making playoffs, beating NDSU.  We need to get to that level.

EXCEED that level, I dare say.

[UND1983]

47 minutes ago, Dustin said:

EXCEED that level, I dare say.

To exceed one must first achieve

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, UND1983 said:

Recruiting 

Agreed. SDSU got a leg up on UND by moving up along with NDSU. 

From a pure head to head standpoint (SDSU vs UND), SDSU has recruited better players then UND (AND DEVELOPED - they’ve had the better S&C program).

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Why do UND football fans want to compare their program to NDSU's?

It’s UND’s rival. Regionally, UND is naturally compared to NDSU. 
 

SDSU is not UND’s rival from a regional standpoint, at least not before NDSU is.  Kids from North Dakota and northern Minnesota will naturally compare UND to NDSU, and vice versa. Has to do with geography and tradition/history. 
 

Lastly, NDSU football should be the benchmark (or at least the program to strive to become) for all FCS football programs, including UND football. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, AJS said:

Let's call it brand recognition. I'm not saying what I'd chose as a fan, I'm saying national eyeballs. What would be the biggest on any given year?

• Making the Men's NCAA Basketball Tournament
• Winning the Frozen Four
• Winning the FCS Title Game

Am I off base here? It's definitely making the NCAA Basketball Tournament. Which do you think it is?

From an eyeballs standpoint, especially if you win a NCAA mens basketball tournament game, it is NCAA mens bb tournament. 
 

from a sense of accomplishment standpoint, including pride as fans and alumni, it would be a national championship in hockey and/or football. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, Shawn-O said:

I'll just leave these here. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/615807/ncaa-frozen-four-viewership/
https://herosports.com/fcs-football-tv-viewership-ratings-playoffs-bzbz/

Well, there it is; not surprising which sport is more popular (and therefore success in said sport has more potential to grow a university). 

[UND1983]

16 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Agreed. SDSU got a leg up on UND by moving up along with NDSU. 

From a pure head to head standpoint (SDSU vs UND), SDSU has recruited better players then UND (AND DEVELOPED - they’ve had the better S&C program).

We need more high-end players.  They are the one's that win games

[UND-FB-FAN]

19 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

We need more high-end players.  They are the one's that win games

Can’t argue with that. 

[nodak651]

4 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

So why aren't we ahead of SDSU? 

4 hours ago, UND1983 said:

Recruiting 

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Agreed. SDSU got a leg up on UND by moving up along with NDSU. 

From a pure head to head standpoint (SDSU vs UND), SDSU has recruited better players then UND (AND DEVELOPED - they’ve had the better S&C program).

I know things are changing, but if we are wondering why SDSU has been more successful since we moved D1, especially in regard to recruiting, is it really that much of a mystery?  I know the high performance center is great, but Bubba has been incredibly successful if you consider the overall facilities that he's been working with in comparison to the top teams in the fcs (besides EWU).  The locker rooms at memorial were literally going to be condemned weren't they?  Compare that to SDSU and the Dykhouse Center, which actually has locker rooms and other football facilities attached to it.  Bubba hasn't been playing with a full deck of cards but he's been fairly competitive anyways.   Guarantee UND starts recruiting better once Memorial Village and Pollard phase two are complete.

[Sioux>Bison]

5 hours ago, Dustin said:

Multiple reasons, and surprised you'd have to ask.

A) As a school, NDSU represents the primary alternative for ND / northern MN kids who are also considering UND, so they are a natural rival, both competing for the same students.  This makes for many friends/families with ties to each school, creating interpersonal dynamics, hopefully not taken too seriously, but oftentimes is.  We want our school to show up as the "superior" in athletic contests, because, hey, who doesn't want their team to win?

B) UND / NDSU football (and all sports, really) is/was a classic college rivalry.  It had (and still should have) a trophy.  A contest was played every year for decades (and now finally again).  Same conference for decades (and now finally again).  Just as the schools compete the same students, the football programs compete for the same student-athletes.  Lots of interpersonal dynamics at play here again.

C)  UND holds a winning record over NDSU head-to-head.  Throughout time, UND has beaten NDSU more times than lost, so why wouldn't we want more of that??  We ultimately expect it.  We ultimately deserve it.

The UND/ NDSU game in Fargo sold out first, not the SDSU “rival game” 

Ag U can pretend they are better than us but they have to play us every year intil

they find somewhere to move up!

[gfNDfan]

Gotta love the internet - it's like running into a wall over and over again - JUST LIKE MOST OF YOU DID WHEN YOU WERE KIDS! 

Oh memories....

[farce poobah]

6 hours ago, CMSioux said:

Not sure most schools look at discussions about firing a head coach as positive. 

Fair point.   Even so, it's a minority of posts and posters that are seeking a change.   (These posts are generally well reasoned and thoughtful.)

Many others are seeing increased and consistent success as requiring broader change than coaching. I agree with those, generally. (One contrary argument I might say is that winning conference titles in two of the past six seasons is not too bad for a program making transition to a new conference, closer to our natural recruiting footprint.) 

I think finishing the high performance center is one important aid to recruiting, conditioning, and training.  And I would hope the Athletic Department is looking top-to-bottom at all aspects of gameday experience, promotion, and revenue aids to help fund the many things which need funding.  

[geaux_sioux]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:12 PM, Frozen4sioux said:

Does UND compete in the top division of NCAA football.

Not sure if your kid plays on a tram and you want to pretend or what but no.

Ask any real D1 athlete.

FCS is not D1 other than for stroking egos of donors and the weakminded.

Do we watch D2 institutions hang national championship banners in football after our team loses to them in the playoffs? No, because Duluth is D2 and we’re D1.

[The Sicatoka]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:12 PM, Frozen4sioux said:

Does UND compete in the top division of NCAA football.

Yes.

It plays in the FCS subdivision of NCAA Division I. From the NCAA Division I manual: 

Quote

20.4.2 Football Subdivision Reclassification Options. A member of Division I may petition to be classified in football in the Football Bowl Subdivision or the Football Championship Subdivision

I know that doesn't fit your narrative, but if you're going to use NCAA terms ('division') you need use their definitions as well. 

Now if you claimed UND doesn't play in the "top tier" meaning FBS > FCS you'd have an argument. 

[siouxkid12]

13 hours ago, AJS said:

Let's call it brand recognition. I'm not saying what I'd chose as a fan, I'm saying national eyeballs. What would be the biggest on any given year?

• Making the Men's NCAA Basketball Tournament
• Winning the Frozen Four
• Winning the FCS Title Game

Am I off base here? It's definitely making the NCAA Basketball Tournament. Which do you think it is?

Agree to disagree but I sure as heck wouldn't say making the NCAA tournament and playing in a game your are more than likely going to lose. Be that Cinderella team that makes it all the way to the sweet 16 or farther and then we are talking something different, other than that you are just another team that made the tournament.

[Siouxperfan7]

Can we please stop using the "NDSU and SDSU got a headstart" argument as to why we UND is not at the same level at other schools such as NDSU and SDSU.UND started competing at the D1 level in 2007.  That was only 4 years after NDSU and SDSU.  And for those doing the math at home, UND has been Division 1 in all sports for

15 years!!!  Stop using the excuse that we are still playing catchup with the other Dakota schools.  We've had 15 years to catch up.  Tired of the excuses.

[Dustin]

25 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Can we please stop using the "NDSU and SDSU got a headstart" argument as to why we UND is not at the same level at other schools such as NDSU and SDSU.UND started competing at the D1 level in 2007.  That was only 4 years after NDSU and SDSU.  And for those doing the math at home, UND has been Division 1 in all sports for

15 years!!!  Stop using the excuse that we are still playing catchup with the other Dakota schools.  We've had 15 years to catch up.  Tired of the excuses.

That was me (although, I know many others have done it), and yes, it is not the sole reason, but it compounded on top of other issues, some of which were beyond the school's control, and many that were not, that are still plaguing some UND athletics, especially football.

But you are right, at some point, all others things equal (which they aren't, but...) 4 years won't matter.  It's like having 4 more years of experience than a co-worker at a job - the first few the difference in experience is going to be very significant, but after a while, they aren't.  How long is that while?  Based on my own personal job experience, I'd say 10-15 years.  Were probably just settling into the point now where the XDSU's are not any further ahead than UXD's due to the sole reason the XDSU's did it 4 years earlier.

[nodak651]

18 minutes ago, Dustin said:

That was me (although, I know many others have done it), and yes, it is not the sole reason, but it compounded on top of other issues, some of which were beyond the school's control, and many that were not, that are still plaguing some UND athletics, especially football.

But you are right, at some point, all others things equal (which they aren't, but...) 4 years won't matter.  It's like having 4 more years of experience than a co-worker at a job - the first few the difference in experience is going to be very significant, but after a while, they aren't.  How long is that while?  Based on my own personal job experience, I'd say 10-15 years.  Were probably just settling into the point now where the XDSU's are not any further ahead than UXD's due to the sole reason the XDSU's did it 4 years earlier.

I think it's reasonable to conclude that this point was reached when UND won the Big Sky championship.  Since then, multiple conference changes have probably played a much larger factor, imo. 

[USTBench]

On 9/25/2022 at 12:17 PM, SWSiouxMN said:

Okay, I'll bite

If UND was going to be serious about this:  They open up the pocketbooks*, drive down to St. Paul and give Caruso whatever he wants to come to Grand Forks.

*Everybody's got a price, so meet it.

Don't know who the newbie coaches are in the NSIC that could make the jump.  Hoffner is 56 and probably wants to retire in Kato.   

 

We'll give you his OC. Best we can do. 

[The Sicatoka]

4 minutes ago, USTBench said:

We'll give you his OC. Best we can do. 

Isn't there a meme picture you're supposed to use with that line?  

[USTBench]

On 9/25/2022 at 3:36 PM, petey23 said:

Kevin Bullis

Vince Kehres

Geoff Dartt

Jeff Thorne

Kevin Bullis is fortunate to have had Lance Leipold build that program into what it is and ride in on the shoulder of a giant, and Vince Kehres is a GIANT no from me. Mount Union is nowhere near what it was under his dad, he doesn't recruit nearly as well, coach as well, and his program gets a free pass to the semifinals in a notoriously weak region every year, where they're now getting exposed by NCC, UMHB and UWW. 

[The Sicatoka]

Ten years ago there were three guys that made sense: DeBoer, Leipold, Caruso. 

Two of them are where they seemed headed. The third seems happy where he is. 

[USTBench]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Ten years ago there were three guys that made sense: DeBoer, Leopold, Caruso. 

Two of them are where they seemed headed. The third seems happy where he is. 

I've had my fair share of conversations with him, he seems extremely happy where he is, and does not seem to be a big fan of living in ND (despite his wife being from Fargo), and is adamant about the quality of ND HS football (thinks it sucks). It would seem he wants push UST into the MVFC someday. I think UND purusuing him would be a dead-end, considering he walks on water at UST and gets paid quite well.