Who would UND hire?

[Irish]

5 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

I would agree that it is self-inflected but only to a point. Bubba is a good person to have when we need to raise funds for projects because he is all on board with what UND is trying to do (name change, new buildings, etc) His type of football however is no longer sufficient in the Missouri Valley/D1AA. UND needs to pay its football coaches a little bit more to attract that type of coach that is going to take us to the next level. 

Agree with the need for higher pay - Although it is clear that no big donors from the Football Alumni are going to step forward.  And for the average fan who is close to being maxed out - who wants do dig in for a bit more when in reality all you are doing is funding Bubba Ball through 2025.  We need some indication of a course correction.

[gfhockey]

1 minute ago, Irish said:

Agree with the need for higher pay - Although it is clear that no big donors from the Football Alumni are going to step forward.  And for the average fan who is close to being maxed out - who wants do dig in for a bit more when in reality all you are doing is funding Bubba Ball through 2025.  We need some indication of a course correction.

Why don’t the big donors step forward for football? Should be a ton more football alumni then hockey alumni

[siouxkid12]

2 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

Why don’t the big donors step forward for football? Should be a ton more football alumni then hockey alumni

That's a good question. The GOBC should find out why and start the process of fundraising...

[Siouxperfan7]

Bubba's teams records thru last year at UND look like this:

Overall:  47-40   -   54% win percentage

Home: 32-10   -   76& win percentage

Away:  15-30   -   33% win percentage

Conference:  25-20   -   56% win percentage

 

Now, 2016 and the 2020/2021 Spring season were both banner years as we won a share of the conference those seasons.  Those were good years.  Bubba has had 2 good years where we made then playoffs.  Here are the numbers fot the other 6 seasons.

 

Overall:  33-35  -   49% win percentage

Home: 23-9   -   72% win percentage

Away:  10-26   -   28% win percentage

Conference:  13-19   -   41% win percentage

 

No matter how you look at it including the banner seasons or not, these are not the numbers of a top tier program in the FCS let alone the MVFC.  A 1-2 playoff record in that span doesn't turn many heads either.  Not trying to turn up the heat on Bubba's seat after just one conference loss, but I think its perfectly fine to start asking the questions whether Bubba is the future for this program.

 

[jdub27]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

See above post. Those institutions still have FB success - actually, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and Kentucky have very good FB teams this year (two are 4-0 and two are 3-1). Difference? Active athletic departments to find the right leadership for the program - not afraid to find someone different if it’s just not working. 

Do they really have football success?
Prior to this year:
Kansas has 3 winning seasons in the last 25 and none since 2008. Their record is 94-201 the last 25 seasons.
UNC has 13 winnings seasons of the last out of 25 but that's only if you don't count the games the had to forfeit in 2 of their winning seasons. Not excluding that, they are 155-153 or 139-153 if you take out those forfeits.
Duke has 5 in the the last 25 seasons and has a record of 96-203 in that time frame.
Kentucky has 4 in the the last 25 seasons and is 140-164 in that time frame.

Bubba is at 5 of 8 and only one of those (3-8 in 2017) is what I would call a disaster of a season. His record in his first 8 seasons is 47-40 which is a better winning percentage than any of the schools you used as an example of having "FB success" have had the last quarter of a century.

 

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I completely agree and have mentioned it on this site several times. The athletic department is tied to the REA/Engelstad agreement. President Kennedy attempted to (rightfully) buck it a few years back, but McGarry went running to the press and used her public image - inflated by the REA donation - and won out.

UND entered into an agreement with the “devil” in order to get the (at the time) $100M REA. The dependence on the REA and Engelstad family has been hard on the other UND athletic programs, especially since going to Division I - where more funding is needed. 

The REA/UND usage agreement has changed significantly since the arena was built, imo.  Below is a comparison for "Disposition of Net Income" between the current usage agreement and the 2004-2005 usage agreement.

Current usage agreement:

2004-2005 Usage Agreement:

 

 

 

[Irish]

17 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

I think its perfectly fine to start asking the questions whether Bubba is the future for this program.

 

Totally agree - however this question now needs to be postponed until 2025 because apparently the Athletic Director looked at his  coaching-  last year (in which he had some of the worst in-game coaching I have ever seen)  decided he needed an extension.  This is why we are mired in mediocrity.  

[jdub27]

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

Don't take this as me defending that UND is doing the right thing by being set up this way, but it's kind of hard to ignore the $100M donation (and repeat smaller donations) meant specifically for that sport.  I don't like biting the hands that feed us, but in a sense, the Engelstads are "hockey only" fans (although, where the BB and VB teams play also bear the Engelstad name) and have created a culture of "hockey only" fans.

Despite what is the common knowledge, people would be pretty surprised at some of the donations that have been made to other programs. However, those typically aren't announced publicly (and aren't of the $100 million variety) so there is a perception of that.

 

2 hours ago, gundy1124 said:

How was that Eastern Washington athletic budget when he left?  That probably wasn't #1 on his resume. 

Why make a lateral FCS move if you're Chaves, maybe to share his great hockey background?

No wow factor besides staying awake at meetings.  But luckily for the AD Interview committee you can always say, "Hey, at least I wasn't on the re-naming or branding committee" 

Terrible, their president was trying to move them down to D3.
EWU to UND isn't a lateral move unless you're talking about both being D1/FCS. EWU is directional commuter school that is an afterthought in their market due to proximity of P5 schools and has an $18MM budget. I would think we could agree that UND is slightly different than that. And directly to your question, that was one of the things that I know he was asked by multiple people.

Haha, point taken (and knowing some people on a few of those committees, glad I'm not them).
Out of the 5 finalists, 2 of them stuck out as head and shoulders above the others (for the portions of things I sat through). One of them had D1 AD experience, the other had significant ties to UND. I don't know who made the final call, but they actually brought in someone from the outside.

Starting to think it maybe it doesn't matter where people come from....

[sioux24/7]

24 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Despite what is the common knowledge, people would be pretty surprised at some of the donations that have been made to other programs. However, those typically aren't announced publicly (and aren't of the $100 million variety) so there is a perception of that.

Just waiting for that big Sanford donation like all the other Dakota schools have received. 

[jdub27]

14 minutes ago, sioux24/7 said:

Just waiting for that big Sanford donation like all the other Dakota schools have received. 

UND received $10 million from Altru in 2012, which was the same amount that NDSU received from Sanford in 2010.

Doesn't mean there isn't a future opportunity, but that wasn't a coincidence.

[sioux24/7]

9 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

UND received $10 million from Altru in 2012, which was the same amount that NDSU received from Sanford in 2010.

Doesn't mean there isn't a future opportunity, but that wasn't a coincidence.

Well never mind about what I said! Thanks for pointing that out for me. 

[UND Fan]

1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

UND received $10 million from Altru in 2012, which was the same amount that NDSU received from Sanford in 2010.

Doesn't mean there isn't a future opportunity, but that wasn't a coincidence.

UND did get a commitment for $10M from Altru in 2012. Many do not know that it was to be paid over 10 years - $1M/year for the 10 years. 
I better not provide too much info but let's just say UND has not received 10 checks. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 hours ago, Irish said:

Blame hockey all you want but the sad fact is that Football's current problems are largely self-inflicted and could have been corrected.

Agree to a point. Not sure how football’s poor salary pool is entirely football’s fault. 
 

All programs need a stimulus at some point. Heck, UND hockey got a $100M one a bit ago. 
 

UND football’s resources are not at the top compared to their regional competitors. At some point, the athletic department’s priorities and their relationship (or lack thereof) with boosters needs to be looked at also. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 hours ago, gfhockey said:

Why don’t the big donors step forward for football? Should be a ton more football alumni then hockey alumni

Because priority doesn’t appear to be there. Chaves and his department doesn’t make it a priority; that lies with hockey. People constantly donating to just hockey (which honestly doesn’t need anymore) and receiving publicity for doing so. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, Irish said:

Totally agree - however this question now needs to be postponed until 2025 because apparently the Athletic Director looked at his  coaching-  last year (in which he had some of the worst in-game coaching I have ever seen)  decided he needed an extension.  This is why we are mired in mediocrity.  

Beyond puzzling… and frustrating.

[AJS]

4 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

You and him are taking my post out of context. I said that NDSU has one contender and UND could potentially have 2 sports be contenders if they were smart. Name me one other sports that NDSU can say they will be contenders in?

Our men's and women's teams basketball teams and volleyball team have made the NCAA tournaments too but I definitely wouldn't be calling them contenders

Who cares if neither UND or NDSU will ever be a contender to win it all in NCAA Basketball. Just making the men's tournament will give you more press then winning the NCAA Hockey or FCS Football National Championship. Make it to the 2nd round and it's X5. The NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament it's all about just getting in. NDSU over the past decade has had about a 50/50 shot each year of making it. They play in the Summit League final virtually every year. There's no comparison between NDSU and UND in the NCAA's biggest tournament. 

[jdub27]

53 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Because priority doesn’t appear to be there. Chaves and his department doesn’t make it a priority; that lies with hockey. 

Just curious if you have any actual proof of this or it is all your anecdotal evidence?
Because from what I've seen, which is just my anecdotal experience, is the opposite of this.

Obviously they haven't pulled in any $100 million donors, but name more than a couple schools who have ever done that.
And I wouldn't say that just because they haven't pulled in any 8 figure donations doesn't mean that it isn't a priority. Those things takes years to cultivate and there was quite a few relationships that needed repairing for various reasons.
I mean, they managed to figure out a creative way to get Memorial Village done. They are incredibly close to Phase 2 of the HPC. Those aren't small tasks coming off the back-end of the $300 million Spirit campaign.

[siouxkid12]

4 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

100% agree with you here. She does not represent "the hand that feeds us"; she is siphoning off money that could be used to help UND athletics as a whole. Also, it was RALPH Engelstad who built the arena, not his daughter. The idea that we have to find another $100 million donor for FB and whatever else is the wrong approach. Smaller donations from a larger pool of alumni would be a much better approach to fundraising.

Look at her track record at UNLV. She wanted her person left in charge at UNLV and when they wanted to get rid of them, she had her lawyer rescind the money ($14M). Forgive me but I must be old fashioned and once you donated money to someone or something, you no longer get a say in how things are ran.

[siouxkid12]

35 minutes ago, AJS said:

Who cares if neither UND or NDSU will ever be a contender to win it all in NCAA Basketball. Just making the men's tournament will give you more press then winning the NCAA Hockey or FCS Football National Championship. Make it to the 2nd round and it's X5. The NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament it's all about just getting in. NDSU over the past decade has had about a 50/50 shot each year of making it. They play in the Summit League final virtually every year. There's no comparison between NDSU and UND in the NCAA's biggest tournament. 

That is just not true. You're going to sit there with a stone cold face and believe that? How many people still talk about those games in the NCAA tournament? ZERO. How many people talk about College Game Day being in Fargo or 5 straight national championships NDSU won? 

[UND-FB-FAN]

22 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Just curious if you have any actual proof of this or it is all your anecdotal evidence?
Because from what I've seen, which is just my anecdotal experience, is the opposite of this.

Obviously they haven't pulled in any $100 million donors, but name more than a couple schools who have ever done that.
And I wouldn't say that just because they haven't pulled in any 8 figure donations doesn't mean that it isn't a priority. Those things takes years to cultivate and there was quite a few relationships that needed repairing for various reasons.
I mean, they managed to figure out a creative way to get Memorial Village done. They are incredibly close to Phase 2 of the HPC. Those aren't small tasks coming off the back-end of the $300 million Spirit campaign.

Just anecdotal, but plan on more specific conversations soon. Ultimately, as I’ve said, I think the agreement with REA/Engelstad, McGarry has also been limiting. REA takes in 52% of ticket revenue - all of that just directly or indirectly goes to hockey. UND has no say in that going to football. 

[Und246]

When you win as many titles as NDSU has won you definitely get some attention. But for all the other fcs schools winning a title is dwarfed by being in the March madness event. FCS is generally small potatoes.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

9 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

Look at her track record at UNLV. She wanted her person left in charge at UNLV and when they wanted to get rid of them, she had her lawyer rescind the money ($14M). Forgive me but I must be old fashioned and once you donated money to someone or something, you no longer get a say in how things are ran.

Absolutely! Completely agree 1000%.

herein lies the issue with her and the donation UND accepted 

[Bison06]

11 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

That is just not true. You're going to sit there with a stone cold face and believe that? How many people still talk about those games in the NCAA tournament? ZERO. How many people talk about College Game Day being in Fargo or 5 straight national championships NDSU won? 

I think the poster may have been referencing attention on a national level when comparing NCAA Basketball vs FCS football/NCAA Hockey.

On that point specifically, the original poster may have actually understated the differences. 

NDSU’s current run is an outlier. Under normal circumstances, just making the NCAA basketball tournament is much more publicity nationally than an FCS championship or a hockey national championship.

[CMSioux]

9 hours ago, farce poobah said:

Wow!

UND loses its first game to an FCS opponent this season and a thread discussing football coaching staff gets almost 200 new posts.

Most schools would kill for that kind of passion in their fan base.

Not sure most schools look at discussions about firing a head coach as positive. 

[nodak651]

16 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

Not sure most schools look at discussions about firing a head coach as positive. 

Something something indifference etc