UND to cut women's hockey

[petey23]

57 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

I guess I forgot when UND lost 2 million dollars a year to retire and develop a new nickname and logo.  "Of course"!!  Good point.  Thanks for bringing that up. 

That number is a little steep.

We are more in the neighborhood of 250-400k a year in lost licensing revenue.

[MafiaMan]

12 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4261103-office-civil-rights-asks-und-detailed-records-some-dating-back-1972

Looks like it is going to be a long summer on this.

So who picks up the tab when the claim turns out to be baseless?

[AJS]

13 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4261103-office-civil-rights-asks-und-detailed-records-some-dating-back-1972

Looks like it is going to be a long summer on this.

If you wanted UND to get nailed for something, you can start the parade. I'm stunned by this list of requests, I would have never thought they'd be going back that far. Like someone else mentioned, I believe this will be a case of them digging until they find something.

One thing I'm really interested in seeing is how much steam this has gained / lost since the report first came out (Apr 21). It's still early, but 50 minutes after he posted it, there is 1 RT, compared to 85 with his original Investigation post on Apr 21. I'll look after a day to see what it's at. Why I'm interested, is we all know there will be a small group that wants to destroy UND and will take this anger to their grave. I just have a feeling there was a larger group that wanted to see this investigated, but, after a couple more weeks of cooling off and seeing all that they are asking, there are backing off.

I think you'll see more and more people turn on the Women's hockey team, as this OCR investigation continue.

[UNDColorado]

12 minutes ago, AJS said:

If you wanted UND to get nailed for something, you can start the parade. I'm stunned by this list of requests, I would have never thought they'd be going back that far. Like someone else mentioned, I believe this will be a case of them digging until they find something.

One thing I'm really interested in seeing is how much steam this has gained / lost since the report first came out (Apr 21). It's still early, but 50 minutes after he posted it, there is 1 RT, compared to 85 with his original Investigation post on Apr 21. I'll look after a day to see what it's at. Why I'm interested, is we all know there will be a small group that wants to destroy UND and will take this anger to their grave. I just have a feeling there was a larger group that wanted to see this investigated, but, after a couple more weeks of cooling off and seeing all that they are asking, there are backing off.

I think you'll see more and more people turn on the Women's hockey team, as this OCR investigation continue.

Why exactly do they need to produce records back to 1972? Reading this crap makes me even happier that we canned those sports. 

[siouxkid12]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 10:20 PM, iramurphy said:

The Lamoureaux twins were two of the best athletes ever from the state of North Dakota.  In addition to playing hockey at the highest level available they were blue chip soccer players who could likely have played college soccer.  I can't remember if they won an NCAA championship at the U of Mn but I do remember how excited people were when they transferred back to UND and what that meant to our young program.  They are still two of the best women's hockey players in the world and have been great ambassadors for UND.  Their parents and brothers have also been an important part of the UND hockey  family.  I get the financial pickle UND athletics is in but I don't believe there was ever much of an effort by the University to explore fundraising options.  One of our million dollar donors was never approached. I know donors listed in the top 100 athletic donors weren't asked.  Having said that I doubt $60 million was ever going to be raised.  These young athletes feel betrayed.  You would too.  The fact that there aren't many fans at their games doesn't lessen the time, effort, hard work, and passion these women have dedicated to the sport and our University.  We didn't have the financial backing to start women's hockey in the beginning and we we lose too much money.  No surprise it was cut but put yourself in the shoes of not only the twins but of the other athletes male and female who committed to UND and feel betrayed by the University and the schools administration.  Most people on this board would be rioting if UND dropped Men's Hockey.  Look at the fuss over the name and logo.  The Lamoureaux twins have made comments and accusations because they and others are hurt and angry.  Look at how people have acted over the nickname fiasco.  The Lamoureaux twins and the other athletes have done nothing even as close to the dumb ass comments and accusations related to the name and logo.   I'm not agreeing with them, but I understand their anger and frustration.  Show some class and cut them some slack.  The rhetoric isn't going to change anything and it makes us all look stupid. Sometimes our family members say and do stupid things and the rest of us need to let it go.

No, they have not been great ambassadors for UND. UND was forced to change their nickname from the Fighting Sioux but yet every where they go they say they are #FightingSiouxProud or they rip off their USA jerseys to show them wearing a sioux jersey. If they were such great amassadors for the University, they would've helped UND with the nickname transition instead of fighting them on it. For me, its always been about them and their agenda and frankly I am sick of it. Now my school is getting drug through a worthless claim about female civil rights because some ladies can't get over that their damn program was cut. It has shown that these kids (not just the twins) have been handed everything in life and if they don't get what they want, they stomp their feet/cry and then they sue.

[cberkas]

6 minutes ago, UNDColorado said:

Why exactly do they need to produce records back to 1972? Reading this crap makes me even happier that we canned those sports. 

That's when Title IX was implemented, they always go back to 1972 in every investigation.

[jdub27]

23 minutes ago, cberkas said:

That's when Title IX was implemented, they always go back to 1972 in every investigation.

And considering this isn't UND's first brush with some of this stuff, I feel even more confident they will have everything they need to show that their ducks are in a row.

[fightingsioux4life]

4 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

And considering this isn't UND's first brush with some of this stuff, I feel even more confident they will have everything they need to show that their ducks are in a row.

I believe it is NDSU that needs an audit before UND does.

[cberkas]

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I believe it is NDSU that needs an audit before UND does.

The OCR would be there for a year auditing NDSU.

[bison73]

4 hours ago, petey23 said:

That number is a little steep.

We are more in the neighborhood of 250-400k a year in lost licensing revenue.

Dont forget lawyer fees etc etc etc.  There was an article that came out and the figure was 2 million if I remember correctly.

[Siouxperfan7]

34 minutes ago, bison73 said:

Dont forget lawyer fees etc etc etc.  There was an article that came out and the figure was 2 million if I remember correctly.

So roughly the same amount womens hockey loses in ONE YEAR!!

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

18 minutes ago, bison73 said:

Dont forget lawyer fees etc etc etc.  There was an article that came out and the figure was 2 million if I remember correctly.

The big numbers related to the nickname transition were long-range, and those included such things as new uniforms, playing surfaces, etc., that have a finite life span and were going to require replacement anyway.  And way back in 2011, the estimate was $750k.

As of January 2015, actuals were $126k.

And in 2016, the logo cost about $50k.

In any event, that's a long way from equaling the annual cost of a sport, let alone an expensive one.  So I'm not sure the nickname issue and its one-time expenditures are viable scapegoats for teams being cut, nor have I ever heard that the nickname costs were paid for by the athletic department in the first place.

[UNDColorado]

6 hours ago, cberkas said:

That's when Title IX was implemented, they always go back to 1972 in every investigation.

Cool I didn't know how long Title IX was in effect. I take comfort knowing UND actually covered their ass on this one. This will blow over and most of us will move on. 

[SWSiouxMN]

6 hours ago, AJS said:

If you wanted UND to get nailed for something, you can start the parade. I'm stunned by this list of requests, I would have never thought they'd be going back that far. Like someone else mentioned, I believe this will be a case of them digging until they find something.

One thing I'm really interested in seeing is how much steam this has gained / lost since the report first came out (Apr 21). It's still early, but 50 minutes after he posted it, there is 1 RT, compared to 85 with his original Investigation post on Apr 21. I'll look after a day to see what it's at. Why I'm interested, is we all know there will be a small group that wants to destroy UND and will take this anger to their grave. I just have a feeling there was a larger group that wanted to see this investigated, but, after a couple more weeks of cooling off and seeing all that they are asking, there are backing off.

I think you'll see more and more people turn on the Women's hockey team, as this OCR investigation continue.

I think a lot of the steam has been lost because the players have been finding new homes.  Even when the whole OCR request article came in yesterday, 2 more former recruits have found homes.  If the team was still together and fighting it tooth and nail, I would be way more concerned.  Since that isn't the case, I will just be annoyed with a long investigation that will lead to them saying.... you are good UND.  

[SiouxVolley]

Mo St cut womens field hockey and they didn't get an OCR suit against them.  All the national reports (fake news) by ESPN and SI made UND WIH a lightning rod for discrimination against women.  

[petey23]

4 hours ago, bison73 said:

Dont forget lawyer fees etc etc etc.  There was an article that came out and the figure was 2 million if I remember correctly.

I might have misunderstood his post. He said 2 million a year so I thought he was referring to lost revenue going from the previous name and logo to the interim and current debacle.

[SiouxVolley]

The bureaucrats at the OCR love to make trouble and spend other people's money on their agendas.  Write Hoeven and Cramer to stop the waste of money imposed on UND.  Heitkamp probably is backing the OCR.

[Rebel_Sioux]

I wasn't saying the cost of the name change alone cost UND 2 million a year. But everything can snowball quickly. You have the actual costs of all the committees and cost of the logo firm and then there are the annual loses in licensing and fundraising. 

And yes, I know we were forced to retire the name, but the way the new Fighting Hawks name and logo was forced onto the school that was already having budget issues made many alumni and donors that much more unhappy, thus making fundraising even harder. 

Given all of those factors I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that we may have been able to save some of the sports if the Fighting Hawks name hadn't been forced onto us. 

[iramurphy]

8 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

No, they have not been great ambassadors for UND. UND was forced to change their nickname from the Fighting Sioux but yet every where they go they say they are #FightingSiouxProud or they rip off their USA jerseys to show them wearing a sioux jersey. If they were such great amassadors for the University, they would've helped UND with the nickname transition instead of fighting them on it. For me, its always been about them and their agenda and frankly I am sick of it. Now my school is getting drug through a worthless claim about female civil rights because some ladies can't get over that their damn program was cut. It has shown that these kids (not just the twins) have been handed everything in life and if they don't get what they want, they stomp their feet/cry and then they sue.

I don't think any of these  kids have been "handed everything in life".  Doesn't happen at the college or Olympic level.  They earned college scholarships, recognition and awards due to their hard work, sacrifice, God given talent and the sacrifices their families have made. Whether they want to wear Sioux logos or Hawks logos is up to them. Who cares?  I don't like their strategy and some of their comments but I'm sure they feel betrayed and certainly the kids on these teams feel betrayed. The University can't afford to keep losing money and needs to operate,within the financial constraints of the budget.  What's done is done and apparently it had to be done. The Lamoureaux twins have been great ambassadors for girls and women's hockey, women's athletics and UND.  They aren't doing UND any favors now, but they and the other athletes deserve compassion.  Closing schools, closing businesses and cutting athletic programs can be pretty traumatic to those involved and to those who feel they have given their heart and soul to the University and the program.  When I comment we should show class and cut them some slack, it shouldn't  depend on what they do.  You either have it or you don't. As UND alumni I guess I thought we could take the high road and show some class.  Should be who we are as a UND family.  

[darell1976]

2 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I don't think any of these  kids have been "handed everything in life".  Doesn't happen at the college or Olympic level.  They earned college scholarships, recognition and awards due to their hard work, sacrifice, God given talent and the sacrifices their families have made. Whether they want to wear Sioux logos or Hawks logos is up to them. Who cares?  I don't like their strategy and some of their comments but I'm sure they feel betrayed and certainly the kids on these teams feel betrayed. The University can't afford to keep losing money and needs to operate,within the financial constraints of the budget.  What's done is done and apparently it had to be done. The Lamoureaux twins have been great ambassadors for girls and women's hockey, women's athletics and UND.  They aren't doing UND any favors now, but they and the other athletes deserve compassion.  Closing schools, closing businesses and cutting athletic programs can be pretty traumatic to those involved and to those who feel they have given their heart and soul to the University and the program.  When I comment we should show class and cut them some slack, it shouldn't  depend on what they do.  You either have it or you don't. As UND alumni I guess I thought we could take the high road and show some class.  Should be who we are as a UND family.  

Class is what the Lameroux twins need. I don't recall any baseball players whining like a 3 year old on social media when that sport was cut. 

[SiouxVolley]

St Mary's dropped women lacrosse on April 10th for next year.  Interesting to see if they get the OCR breathing down their neck.

[SS0016]

42 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Class is what the Lameroux twins need. I don't recall any baseball players whining like a 3 year old on social media when that sport was cut. 

Most people forget the twins were gophers until they realized it wasn't all about them there and transferred.  Ironic, they leave and Minny wins national titles.

[iramurphy]

49 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Class is what the Lameroux twins need. I don't recall any baseball players whining like a 3 year old on social media when that sport was cut. 

We can't control what the twins say and do we can control how we respond. 

 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

I remember the years of planning, building, and starting to play in The Ralph:

WH came up as going to be a new sport at UND. It may have been a bad investment, but a worthy try, cuz UND was considered a hockey school.

Most likely though, can't really think anyone in the UND Athletic Dept. taught WH was going to make money, but to ride on the shoulder's of MH. In any event, we got a free new PALACE!!!!

Matter of fact what UND sports aren't riding on someone's shoulder? What cuts would Pres. Kennedy have made if we would not have had MH?????

Everyone knows MH makes $ except that Bozo with a barrel of ink in Minot. Figure it out, approximately 20 home games and nearly 12,000 fans and the biggest restaurant/bar in the state.

[darell1976]

Is men's golf getting cut? I thought they had money through 2018, but it may go away after that. If true we would have just 7 men's sports compared to 9 for women's. How could they be in title IX violation? NDSU has 8 sports for both men's and women's, and somehow they are compliant when we basically have identical sports except we have hockey and they have wrestling.