UND to cut women's hockey

[Big Lubowski]

7 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

Need to get Trump involved.  Rebuild the team and have  Finland, Germany, Canada, and the IOC pay for it. 

#MakeAmericaSkateAgain

Love this! 

Unfortunately, for the rest of us, it appears that the twins have discovered the power of political correctness and how to harness, or at least point, the liberal press. 

The twins seem to feel very entitled and self-important. 

If our elected officials (state legislature) and our state employees hired to handle our public institutions (Kennedy & Faison) have to bow to the twins and social media morons, God help us all!

[ringneck28]

29 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

How do you mean?

I mean taking it to twitter in response to their tweets.  Social media with people like goon and every other apologist of the program is tough to beat.  They had a victory in the Olympic women's team issue and now they feel this is their next endeavor. It's time to get their stuff out of the Sioux Shop, let raise their money in their own.   

[geaux_sioux]

12 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

Need to get Trump involved.  Rebuild the team and have  Finland, Germany, Canada, and the IOC pay for it. 

#MakeAmericaSkateAgain

Having watched womens hockey, the term skate is generous

[geaux_sioux]

1 minute ago, ringneck28 said:

I mean taking it to twitter in response to their tweets.  Social media with people like goon and every other apologist of the program is tough to beat.  They had a victory in the Olympic women's team issue and now they feel this is their next endeavor. It's time to get their stuff out of the Sioux Shop, let raise their money in their own.   

For a second I thought you meant physically or in hockey. Already got whooped by them both bad enough in park board hockey to know better than to see them on the ice.

[dmksioux]

There's a poll in the GF Herald regarding the Lamaroux's letter.  So far, readers are in agreement with the Twins by a 75%-25% margin.  Over 700 in favor...again, where were these folks during the games/playoff games?  

[cowboys5xsbs]

Just now, dmksioux said:

There's a poll in the GF Herald regarding the Lamaroux's letter.  So far, readers are in agreement with the Twins by a 75%-25% margin.  Over 700 in favor...again, where were these folks during the games/playoff games?  

Feels over Facts

[gundy1124]

1 hour ago, gfhockey said:

This will effect their hockey schools and getting girls to train with them

Was planning on signing up 2 skaters, decided against it.  Being in Detroit Lakes it would have fit nicely into summer plans.  Savings of $500.

[UNDColorado]

1 minute ago, dmksioux said:

There's a poll in the GF Herald regarding the Lamaroux's letter.  So far, readers are in agreement with the Twins by a 75%-25% margin.  Over 700 in favor...again, where were these folks during the games/playoff games?  

Thanks for the heads up, I just gave it a no vote. 

[ringneck28]

13 minutes ago, UNDColorado said:

Thanks for the heads up, I just gave it a no vote. 

I already voted no and would suggest everyone go vote

[aschmitz_88]

24 minutes ago, UNDColorado said:

Thanks for the heads up, I just gave it a no vote. 

Ditto...originally wasn't going to the article until the poll was mentioned.

[sprig]

It's time for UND to clear up the mess and put out exact numbers for costs and needed savings and how dropping other sports other than women's hockey would not work to stay in line with title 9.. There was nothing given at the news conference last week, unless Faison and Kennedy were more forthcoming in the 1 on 1's with the press afterwards. I've seen many numbers here but the athletic department has made a mess of this. I think Kennedy and the AD did what they had to do, but please explain. Anything I know or don't know comes from this forum, and while many of you know a lot more than me concerning the cuts, ti's time to hear if from the horse's mouth. What sport's exactly do the Lammy twins want to cut to make up for the budget cuts? 

[Oxbow6]

2 minutes ago, dmksioux said:

There's a poll in the GF Herald regarding the Lamaroux's letter.  So far, readers are in agreement with the Twins by a 75%-25% margin.  Over 700 in favor...again, where were these folks during the games/playoff games?  

Helping at the screen printers???

[SIOUXFAN97]

46 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Did they have that many total people attend home games over the past few years?

and if they did they paid zero to watch anyways much less a grand....

[Siouxperfan7]

Kennedy should just respond that if the womens hockey team wants to still be around, they are going to have to be privately funded like the golf team is doing.  Give them the dollar value that they will need to come up with, and see what they can do.  Of course, you can't expect to fund a program on a year to year basis, so they will need to develop a long term endowment plan so it can be sustained long term. Just like what was proposed to the golf team.  If they can raise the millions of dollars needed to afford the program next year and for years in the future, then more power to them.  The program is saved!  Reality will set in when they see the actual hard numbers.

This is a great way for Kennedy and Faison to respond and give the actual dollar amounts needed.  I would be willing to bet 75% of the people taking to social media don't know the amount of money that is required to sustain the program.

[George M. Bluth]

From the letter:

Young girls cannot become what they cannot see. 

-So how did they become what they are today?  They didn't grow up with UND women's hockey

How rare is it to be able to turn on your TV every four years and watch Olympic athletes compete that also represent your University?

-Not all that rare. Parise, Toews, Oshie.....potentially Brock, Jost, Boeser, Schmaltz

[jdub27]

2 hours ago, sprig said:

What sport's exactly do the Lammy twins want to cut to make up for the budget cuts? 

They don't know or care. That's the sad part, in order to actually fix the budget instead of band-aid it again, something needed to be cut and anyone who has looked at the numbers cannot argue the decision that was made without bringing a whole lot of emotion into play. Their continued advocating for WIH sends the message that the they program they support is more important than the ones that survived (even if they won't come out in say it directly), despite cutting WIH giving many more student-athletes opportunities at UND (this of course doesn't even bring into the compliance part of the issue).

Also very conveniently left out is that one is the Strength and Conditioning coach for the WIH team and the other is a Volunteer Assistant Coach for the WIH and a performance specialist at Altru plus they run a hockey camp together. While unfortunate, it does seem relevant that they have a personal financial stake in UND continuing to subsidize women's hockey.

[AJS]

40 minutes ago, sprig said:

It's time for UND to clear up the mess and put out exact numbers for costs and needed savings and how dropping other sports other than women's hockey would not work to stay in line with title 9.. There was nothing given at the news conference last week, unless Faison and Kennedy were more forthcoming in the 1 on 1's with the press afterwards. I've seen many numbers here but the athletic department has made a mess of this. I think Kennedy and the AD did what they had to do, but please explain. Anything I know or don't know comes from this forum, and while many of you know a lot more than me concerning the cuts, ti's time to hear if from the horse's mouth. What sport's exactly do the Lammy twins want to cut to make up for the budget cuts? 

 

22 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Kennedy should just respond that if the womens hockey team wants to still be around, they are going to have to be privately funded like the golf team is doing.  Give them the dollar value that they will need to come up with, and see what they can do.  Of course, you can't expect to fund a program on a year to year basis, so they will need to develop a long term endowment plan so it can be sustained long term. Just like what was proposed to the golf team.  If they can raise the millions of dollars needed to afford the program next year and for years in the future, then more power to them.  The program is saved!  Rality will set in when they see the actual hard numbers.

This is a great way for Kennedy and Faison to respond and give the actual dollar amounts needed.  I would be willing to bet 75% of the people taking to social media don't know the amount of money that is required to sustain the program.

Absolutely on the first post, absolutely not on the second.

First: UND has the opportunity to write a response that could effectively end the discussion. We need not only numbers, but they need to be clear that without cutting hockey, for them to get to the target amount, they'd have to cut X amount of sports, which would have impacted X amount of students. Don't let this turn into a USA Hockey situation, where it spins out of control. I can tell you what side the media is going to take. Even if your reasoning is sound, it's very, very tough to win an argument when the opposition plays victim card.

Second: I get where you're going with it and I can agree that they'd never hit the number needed, but I want nothing to do with opening that can of worms. It was a terrible idea to do it with Baseball and Golf and would be equally bad with Women's hockey. I hope they learned from the earlier headaches and wouldn't even entertain the thought.

[gundy1124]

2 hours ago, NoDakFan said:

As much as I enjoy watching them, and respect them for their accomplishments this letter upsets me. Not once did they suggest a possible solution ot the budget problems if they were to reinstate it. Don't bitch loudly about a problem unless you can help provide a solution. 

I should start using this line around the house.......maybe not, but this sums it up for me.

The Lammys could of asked for a face to face meeting, and asked for a chance to cut expenses, raise some funding, and bridge the gap from now until a full endowment instead of sounding like a couple dumb jocks.

I think WH on their own could cut their budget by a few hundred thousand (coaching salaries, scholarships, and recruiting internationally), raise a few hundred thousand and start looking for an endowment type of pledge and many would have been OK with an extension of WH as long as financial criteria were being met.  (example, WH was only going to cost the University $500,000/year for the next 3 years, then $350,000 the next 3, and so on until fully endowed.  It just seems like nobody had a vision while thinking Men's Hockey would always keep them off the chopping block.

How do we see what Bemidje St. and St. Cloud State has for a WH budget?  Just a shot in the dark, it's far less than UND.

[mksioux]

32 minutes ago, sprig said:

It's time for UND to clear up the mess and put out exact numbers for costs and needed savings and how dropping other sports other than women's hockey would not work to stay in line with title 9.. There was nothing given at the news conference last week, unless Faison and Kennedy were more forthcoming in the 1 on 1's with the press afterwards. I've seen many numbers here but the athletic department has made a mess of this. I think Kennedy and the AD did what they had to do, but please explain. Anything I know or don't know comes from this forum, and while many of you know a lot more than me concerning the cuts, ti's time to hear if from the horse's mouth. What sport's exactly do the Lammy twins want to cut to make up for the budget cuts? 

I've been saying this since the press conference.  Faison and Kennedy needed to get out front of this.  They needed to be factual and present the cold-hard numbers in an articulate and persuasive manner.  They needed to make the public know exactly how much money this program was losing.  They needed to articulate how any other alternative would have resulted in more women losing the opportunity to compete. They needed to explain that prior to these cuts, UND was in Title IX compliance problems weighting in favor of the women.   They need to explain that there is no way to reinstate women's hockey without cutting multiple other women's sports.  I don't think most people even know that Title IX is a two-way street.

Some said it would be impolite to talk about the specifics at the press conference, like talking bad about someone at their funeral.  I say B.S.  Because they didn't hit this straight on, a false narrative has now developed and it could lead to a bigger problem for the University.  

The Lamoureux letter is chalk-full of emotion and entitlement, and completely void of facts.  They offer no viable alternative solution.  They got a victory against USA Hockey by playing the gender-equity card and it's gone to their heads.  They think they can do it again.  And why shouldn't they be confident?  USA Hockey did not fight back with facts and figures and caved because they were terrified of bad publicity.   Kennedy and Faison needs to take this seriously.  Start fighting back with facts and clarity.  Do not let this false narrative take root.  

[jdub27]

56 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

How do we see what Bemidje St. and St. Cloud State has for a WH budget?  Just a shot in the dark, it's far less than UND.

Can't see the source numbers for 2016, but using the aggregate report it looks like just short of $1.2 million for both of them, which I believe is over $900K less than UND.

[BIGSIOUX]

im guessing the lawyers have dictated UND's quiet response, eh?

[dlsiouxfan]

Just now, BIGSIOUX said:

im guessing the lawyers have dictated UND's quiet response, eh?

UND really doesn't need to do anything.   People overestimate the effectiveness of a social media campaign.  The Lammy twins aren't even coming up with a plan to help defray the costs.  They are going to tweet and facebook about it and somehow that's supposed to convince UND to cut $2 million in costs someplace else.    

[mksioux]

Just now, dlsiouxfan said:

UND really doesn't need to do anything.   People overestimate the effectiveness of a social media campaign.  The Lammy twins aren't even coming up with a plan to help defray the costs.  They are going to tweet and facebook about it and somehow that's supposed to convince UND to cut $2 million in costs someplace else.    

They will also have a lot of the print and TV media establishment in their pocket.  That, along with a social media campaign, worked very effectively against USA Hockey.  Granted, they also had a boycott at their disposal in that dispute, but they still "won" the battle by obfuscating the facts and by playing the gender-equity card.  I wouldn't underestimate the situation.  The propaganda needs to be countered with facts and reality.  

[Teeder11]

19 minutes ago, BIGSIOUX said:

im guessing the lawyers have dictated UND's quiet response, eh?

You are white hot.

[George M. Bluth]

4 minutes ago, mksioux said:

They will also have a lot of the print and TV media establishment in their pocket.  That, along with a social media campaign, worked very effectively against USA Hockey.  Granted, they also had a boycott at their disposal in that dispute, but they still "won" the battle by obfuscating the facts and by playing the gender-equity card.  I wouldn't underestimate the situation.  The propaganda needs to be countered with facts and reality.  

That's sexist!