UND to cut women's hockey

[SWSiouxMN]

2 minutes ago, cberkas said:

Didn't the state change how much needed to be cut after the cuts were made so Kennedy had no choice but to cut it? If the state didn't tell UND to cut more money they probably don't cut the women's hockey team.

Well yes, but if they both have the same information would Schafer cut more than he did?

We will never know. 

[UND1983]

31 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

Hockey will always be the envy of sports in GF.  Football will always have small mans syndrome to hockey at UND.

 

Sorry they cut your program.  Not really but....

[cberkas]

Just now, SWSiouxMN said:

Well yes, but if they both have the same information would Schafer had cut more than he did?

We will never know. 

I think Schafer made cuts to effect the least amount of sports same as Kennedy by going by what has been put out there.

[UND1983]

Did you guys know that there was a recruit on campus when this went down?  Just heard that.  For the 385th time.

When you have nothing else to backup your gripe, resort to something inconsequential that had nothing to do with the actual happening.

[MafiaMan]

43 minutes ago, PCM said:

Umm...to professional journalism? 

Why would you leave SiouxSports.com for THAT?  

[PCM]

Just now, MafiaMan said:

Why would you leave SiouxSports.com for THAT?  

It's a step down, I know. 

[NotTheRealPCM]

1 minute ago, PCM said:

It's a step down, I know. 

or maybe a step UP?  

[SiouxVolley]

3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

To the folks upset about how this information was released:

UND had to inform organizations with which they have contractual obligations (see: WWCHA, WAC swimming). The first "real news" (note the quotes) about this on Wednesday was from Todd Milewski on Twitter. Knowing his ties, someone in the WWCHA offices leaked. That's not on UND. 

Next, how, when you haven't announced anything yet, do you tell coaches and teams, "Uh, yeah, you're fine for now, but, uh, don't practice or recruit or have visits this week." To quote the great and wise Det. Lenny Briscoe, "I think that's what they call a clue ..." 

Finally, to those that said "individual meetings" should've been held. And you didn't like how it came out this way? OK, schedule 26 meetings with WIH players, and another 40 with WSD and 30 with MSD. Really. Really? The meetings alone are a tell, and after the first one goes down, with social media? 

In closing, the WIH coach knew. He admitted as much in the GFH story; however, he probably couldn't admit it to himself. Putting his team on the ice with a recruit coming in says as much about him as anyone or anything else. 

There's no go way to do something like this other than to just do it. 

Would take it a step further.  The WWCHA office probably notified all their members right away as it has expansion and scheduling implications that they need to know about.  Someone in Barry Alvarez's office called Todd Milewski with a scoop, so Milewski got to break the story.  As a journalist, they get blue ribbons for breaking a story and the since story is not negative about Wisconsin, he doesn't lose his inside information contacts..

[ringneck28]

3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

To the folks upset about how this information was released:

UND had to inform organizations with which they have contractual obligations (see: WWCHA, WAC swimming). The first "real news" (note the quotes) about this on Wednesday was from Todd Milewski on Twitter. Knowing his ties, someone in the WWCHA offices leaked. That's not on UND. 

Next, how, when you haven't announced anything yet, do you tell coaches and teams, "Uh, yeah, you're fine for now, but, uh, don't practice or recruit or have visits this week." To quote the great and wise Det. Lenny Briscoe, "I think that's what they call a clue ..." 

Finally, to those that said "individual meetings" should've been held. And you didn't like how it came out this way? OK, schedule 26 meetings with WIH players, and another 40 with WSD and 30 with MSD. Really. Really? The meetings alone are a tell, and after the first one goes down, with social media? 

In closing, the WIH coach knew. He admitted as much in the GFH story; however, he probably couldn't admit it to himself. Putting his team on the ice with a recruit coming in says as much about him as anyone or anything else. 

There's no go way to do something like this other than to just do it. 

Who did you hear this from?

[UND-FB-FAN]

9 hours ago, ringneck28 said:

You may want to expand on what you are saying?  What is the purpose of higher education?  What is the mission statement of UND?  Maybe there is a local perception in GF off campus, but that would not be on campus.

I could write a book on this topic, but I'll resist lengthy dialogue on this specific issue ... for now. 

Higher education provides instruction that ultimately benefits all of society, which includes benefit to even those who do not or did not attend post-secondary institutions themselves. You want to know why tax dollars should go to higher education? Because UND and other forms of higher education both directly and indirectly help the community, region, state, country and world community. This should be self-explanatory, so I'm not going to waste my time on explaining this any further. UND's mission statement echoes this exact premise. 

Quote

The University of North Dakota, as a member of the North Dakota University System, serves the state, the country, and the world community through teaching, research, creative activities, and service.

https://und.edu/discover/mission-statement.cfm

I will again include the same sentence I did with my prior post.

Quote

A political, and subsequently educational and collegiate athletics, issue that has plagued the region and state of North Dakota for decades has been isolationism.

Many people of North Dakota have a difficult time accepting higher education as a critical function of society.The State of North Dakota directly sponsors the University of North Dakota for the reasons mentioned above, yet folks would rather hemorrhage dollars with a sport program that draws less than 1,000 attendance per game and loses millions of dollars per year versus properly maintaining the academic, service, and creative integrity of UND's mission statement? Just today people are protesting that UND should drop administration positions in order to keep an unpopular, financially-inept women's hockey program - that is absolutely asinine. 

As for my University of North Dakota athletics agenda, there is a reason that 39 of the 50 states in this country have either a college football or college basketball coach as the state's highest paid public employee. Its because it directly benefits that specific university through attendance and boosters, and, thus, it also benefits that particular state. The athletic programs themselves may lose money, but how do you quantify the impact that major DI athletics has on other tangible and intangible factors, such as enrollment and longstanding alumni pride? It is quite difficult. I may not agree with the numbers that today's market has produced (multi-million dollar coaching contracts), but I agree with the premise that these programs promote pride, support, and interest for their respective universities. 

UND should want to compete with other universities around the country. As a DI athletic institution, they need to better emphasize football and/or basketball. NDSU has grown tremendously in support (via both enrollment and donor dollars) due to their football and basketball success. The same is true for universities around the country. UND should not fall victim to complacency. UND needs to look to invest in the mainstream sports - football and basketball - while maintaining hockey. I get tired of this pro- versus anti-hockey argument ( @Oxbow6 ). I donate $ and purchase season hockey tickets every season. I do not dislike the hockey program; however, I feel that program is beyond maxed out, and if UND wants to take the next step as a successful institution, it needs to better emphasize and expand DI football and basketball. 

The idea that UND should only be a "hockey school" falls right into the competition's hand. The status quo is not good enough. The prior DII status of UND was not good enough. UND athletics needs to continue to expand within the competitive environment that exists today, and I commend President Kennedy for making a logical move on Wednesday that will actually promote UND athletics forward. This is what I like: moves that confront the status quo and look to make UND more competitive within the state and within the country. 

The people of North Dakota may have a difficult time understanding higher education, but that shouldn't deter those who fully understand it. The consensus within North Dakota is not superior purely due to uniqueness; that is where isolationism comes into play. Continuing to resist change is not a strategy that treats those kindly in the end. I hope North Dakota, and even UND, figures this out sooner rather than later. 

[fightingsioux4life]

2 hours ago, Cratter said:

No, just encouraging calls to his employer to let them know "how you feel" about him on his personal twitter for "not covering the whole story" in 140 characters and being "biased by not reporting numbers."

You want a full in depth knowledge on an issue read the newspaper. You want small tidbits of information or how someone personally feels about something; follow them on twitter. You want to get "both sides of the issue" on twitter? Follow more people. 

Don't get upset at The Daily Show when they don't go in-depth reporting either.

This was what I meant when I said some people wanted him fired. The bolded part above could be construed as threatening the man's employment. I imagine if Schlossman had the same opinion as most of the people on here that are complaining about him, those same people would be canonizing him.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I could write a book on this topic, but I'll resist lengthy dialogue on this specific issue ... for now. 

Higher education provides instruction that ultimately benefits all of society, which includes benefit to even those who do not or did not attend post-secondary institutions themselves. You want to know why tax dollars should go to higher education? Because UND and other forms of higher education both directly and indirectly help the community, region, state, country and world community. This should be self-explanatory, so I'm not going to waste me time on explaining this any further. UND's mission statement echoes this exact premise. 

https://und.edu/discover/mission-statement.cfm

I will again include the same sentence I did with my prior post.

Many people of North Dakota have a difficult time accepting higher education as a critical function of society.The State of North Dakota directly sponsors the University of North Dakota for the reasons mentioned above, yet folks would rather hemorrhage dollars with a sport program that draws less than 1,000 attendance per game and loses millions of dollars per year versus properly maintaining the academic, service, and creative integrity of UND's mission statement? Just today people are protesting that UND should drop administration positions in order to keep an unpopular, financially-inept women's hockey program - that is absolutely asinine. 

As for my University of North Dakota athletics agenda, there is a reason that 39 of the 50 states in this country have either a college football or college basketball coach as the state's highest paid public employee. Its because it directly benefits that specific university through attendance and boosters, and, thus, it also benefits that particularly state. The athletic programs themselves may lose money, but how do you quantify the impact that major DI athletics has on other tangible and intangible factors, such as enrollment and longstanding alumni pride? It is quite difficult. I may not agree with the numbers that today's market has produced (multi-million dollar coaching contracts), but I agree with the premise that these programs promote pride, support, and interest for their respective universities. 

UND should want to compete with other universities around the country. As a DI athletic institution, they need to better emphasize football and/or basketball. NDSU has grown tremendously in support (via both enrollment and donor dollars) due to their football and basketball success. The same is true for universities around the country. UND should not fall victim to complacency. UND needs to look to invest in the mainstream sports - football and basketball - while maintaining hockey. I get tired of this pro- versus anti-hockey argument ( @Oxbow6 ). I donate $ and purchase season hockey tickets every season. I do not dislike the hockey program; however, I feel that program is beyond maxed out, and if UND wants to take the next step as a successful institution, it needs to better emphasize and expand DI football and basketball. 

The idea that UND should only be a "hockey school" falls right into the competition's hand. The status quo is not good enough. The prior DII status of UND was not good enough. UND athletics needs to continue to expand within the competitive environment that exists today, and I commend President Kennedy for making a logical move on Wednesday that will actually promote UND athletics forward. This is what I like: moves that confront the status quo and look to make UND more competitive within the state and within the country. 

The people of North Dakota may have a difficult time understanding higher education, but that shouldn't deter those who fully understand it. The consensus within North Dakota is not superior purely due to uniqueness; that is where isolationism comes into play. Continuing to resist change is not a strategy that treats those kindly in the end. I hope North Dakota, and even UND, figure this out sooner rather than later. 

AMEN!!!

[Rebel_Sioux]

17 hours ago, aschmitz_88 said:

The title IX consultant was a big sign.  Unfortunately (if someone has mentioned it I apologize) deadspin picked up on Brad's tweets and Lauren's and wrote an article: http://deadspin.com/north-dakota-cuts-womens-hockey-and-leaves-recruit-out-1793872610

I am now with an earlier comment made by UNDColorado who (maybe along with others) painted Brad's twitter feed as shall I say harmful...I like his articles on info relating to college hockey but the tweets about WIH are not helpful.  Certainly seemed like an agenda...as opposed to a reporter...

 

I feel for the recruit but if she's really as good as she claims her chances of playing D1 hockey are hardly "slim to none." Other teams will offer her a scholarship, if not this year than next.

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, nodakgirl93 said:

Those girls and the whole family (phil and mario on the mens team) have received a lot with free education and hockey from the university. And this is how they act. It's disgusting. They should acknowledge the reason for the cut and be thankful they even had a chance to wear the jersey.

"Yeah, they should get down on their hands and knees and literally kiss the royal feet of the Legislature, Betty Engelstad, Brian Faison, Mark Kennedy and whomever else is considered a power broker in UND circles (sarcasm)." Nothing is "free", by the way. The Lamoreaux kids earned their way onto their respective teams because they had talent that we wanted. They put in a lot of work (on-ice practice, dry-land training, lifting weights, ect.) to be the best they could be. And in exchange for all that, they received a first-class education from The Flagship of the North Dakota University System. That does not obligate them to agree with the hard, but necessary, decision to drop women's hockey. That is a fact that is falling on deaf ears on this forum. SMH.

1 hour ago, Big Green said:

I wish the REA would pull their shirts off the shelves.  I think if they are going to bad mouth the university then cut them off.

"Yeah, and while we are at it, let's ban them from campus!" (sarcasm) The vindictiveness I am reading on this forum is just sickening and disappointing. Criticizing a decision you don't like is not "bad mouthing the university". Kennedy and Faison are not exempt from criticism. They are in public positions that require having a thick skin. Taking the heat for the decisions you make is part of the job.

I imagine 90% of the people reading this will probably cheer for Canada tonight just because they don't like the opinions of the Lamoreaux sisters. It is amazing how quickly people turn on you simply because you have a different opinion about something.

I agreed with the decision to cut women's hockey. But I am not going to rip current and former members of that program for not being happy about it.

[siouxjoy]

I spoke with a UND athlete on Wednesday morning.  She mentioned that they had been told that a decision regarding cuts would be made that day, and that once the press conference had been set, they would be notified via text and would need to report immediately (maybe for a individual meeting...she didn't say).  I would guess that the WIH team had the same directive, but of course had a previously scheduled practice to attend that afternoon.

So, in a way, all of the athletes (and of course coaches) knew that something was going down on Wednesday, but not necessarily the specifics.  Until the leak, anyway.

My interpretation, anyway.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, Old Time Hockey said:

Hockey will always be the envy of sports in GF.  Football will always have small mans syndrome to hockey at UND.

 

And you will always be behind the eight ball. Keeping UND in the stone age does nobody any justice, unless you want to impede UND's practical progress. 

EDIT: Again, hockey doesn't have to be downsized, but football and basketball need to be expanded by a ton. 

[geaux_sioux]

Don't get me wrong, I love twitter for some reasons but my God....

[Oxbow6]

Just heard Dom Izzo on KFGO state his go to "FB only" source, UND-FB-FAN, leaked that NDSU's AD is going to reallocate dollars and resouces from the FB program to other athletic programs because that "program is beyond maxed out" having won 5 of the last 6 FCS FB championships. 

News clip at 6 pm on WDAY..............

 

[petey23]

2 hours ago, UND1983 said:

Did you guys know that there was a recruit on campus when this went down?  Just heard that.  For the 385th time.

When you have nothing else to backup your gripe, resort to something inconsequential that had nothing to do with the actual happening.

Was her family looking to endow the women's hockey program?

[UND-FB-FAN]

12 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Just heard Dom Izzo on KFGO state his go to "FB only" source, UND-FB-FAN, leaked that NDSU's AD is going to reallocate dollars and resouces from the FB program because that "program is beyond maxed out" having won 5 of the last 6 FCS FB championships. 

News clip at 6 pm on WDAY..............

You don't think the football boosters along with Team Makers benefits the other Ag school sports, such as basketball?

Well, it does. The support garnered by football doesn't just go to football, just like the support garnered by hockey at UND doesn't just go to hockey.

Football helps out all of the Ag school athletic department.

Hockey helps out all of the UND athletic department.

Being maxed out is a good thing, to a point. Oh, and way to further expand on NDSU. Let's try keep this UND as much as possible. 

My hope is that one day UND's football and basketball programs can help out the UND athletic department just as the hockey program currently helps out UND. 

[petey23]

30 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

"Yeah, they should get down on their hands and knees and literally kiss the royal feet of the Legislature, Betty Engelstad, Brian Faison, Mark Kennedy and whomever else is considered a power broker in UND circles (sarcasm)." Nothing is "free", by the way. The Lamoreaux kids earned their way onto their respective teams because they had talent that we wanted. They put in a lot of work (on-ice practice, dry-land training, lifting weights, ect.) to be the best they could be. And in exchange for all that, they received a first-class education from The Flagship of the North Dakota University System. That does not obligate them to agree with the hard, but necessary, decision to drop women's hockey. That is a fact that is falling on deaf ears on this forum. SMH.

"Yeah, and while we are at it, let's ban them from campus!" (sarcasm) The vindictiveness I am reading on this forum is just sickening and disappointing. Criticizing a decision you don't like is not "bad mouthing the university". Kennedy and Faison are not exempt from criticism. They are in public positions that require having a thick skin. Taking the heat for the decisions you make is part of the job.

I imagine 90% of the people reading this will probably cheer for Canada tonight just because they don't like the opinions of the Lamoreaux sisters. It is amazing how quickly people turn on you simply because you have a different opinion about something.

I agreed with the decision to cut women's hockey. But I am not going to rip current and former members of that program for not being happy about it.

I would bet 90% of the people reading this forum were not aware they played tonight and now that they do will go on with whatever they were already going to do this weekend.

[nodakgirl93]

43 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

"Yeah, they should get down on their hands and knees and literally kiss the royal feet of the Legislature, Betty Engelstad, Brian Faison, Mark Kennedy and whomever else is considered a power broker in UND circles (sarcasm)." Nothing is "free", by the way. The Lamoreaux kids earned their way onto their respective teams because they had talent that we wanted. They put in a lot of work (on-ice practice, dry-land training, lifting weights, ect.) to be the best they could be. And in exchange for all that, they received a first-class education from The Flagship of the North Dakota University System. That does not obligate them to agree with the hard, but necessary, decision to drop women's hockey. That is a fact that is falling on deaf ears on this forum. SMH.

 

You should stay humble and kind when you work hard and earned what you have been given. They don't need to act like spoiled brats. I'll cheer for the girls when they put on that usa jersey. But their reaction to this is poor and makes them look uneducated and spoiled brats. If they don't have to agree with the decision they should at least understand the reasoning. And not hate at the state and university that has already given them so much.

[Oxbow6]

4 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

You don't think the football boosters along with Team Makers benefits the other Ag school sports, such as basketball?

Well, it does. The support garnered by football doesn't just go to football, just like the support garnered by hockey at UND doesn't just go to hockey.

Football helps out all of the Ag school athletic department.

Hockey helps out all of the UND athletic department.

Being maxed out is a good thing, to a point. Oh, and way to further expand on NDSU. Let's try keep this UND as much as possible. 

My hope is that one day UND's football and basketball programs can help out the UND athletic department just as the hockey program currently helps out UND. 

Agree with all your points especially the last point but another backed handed shot about the hockey program being "maxed out" is very myopic. It still has plenty to offer as far as increased revenue dollars and exposure to the university as do both FB and BB.

[brianvf]

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I imagine 90% of the people reading this will probably cheer for Canada tonight just because they don't like the opinions of the Lamoreaux sisters.

[MafiaMan]

Yea, I figured men's hockey had maximized its potential in about 2000 too.  After all, expecting more than 6,000 fams to attend a game in a town of 44,000 people is almost unrealistic.  Oh, wait...