Driving in Grand Forks

[fightingsioux4life]

9 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Just curious: Do we get to hear the same arguments as we did about Arbor Park then? How people from outside the ward are deciding for those in the ward most affected? 

Based on that standard, the Columbia Road overpass would never have happened. Lots of complaining about that project when it was being discussed from people living in the UND campus area. Could you imagine Grand Forks without the Columbia Road overpass? I cannot.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

21 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Just curious: Do we get to hear the same arguments as we did about Arbor Park then? How people from outside the ward are deciding for those in the ward most affected? 

Much larger area involved than Arbor Park. Two cities and two states weighing in. Need lots of entities coming together.

[The Sicatoka]

1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

Just curious: Do we get to hear the same arguments as we did about Arbor Park then? How people from outside the ward are deciding for those in the ward most affected? 

Funny how those things work ... 

Normally it's "We're most affected! We decide!" ... until the ward wants something that is a bit pricier than the ward alone can afford and then it's "The city needs this so send money please". 

[BIGSIOUX]

I live 2 blocks off 32nd, I support the idea simply because i cant stand NIMBYism.  So, bring it on.

[northernraider]

 

A southern route should have been built so many years ago when there was less "stuff" to destroy during construction. Now the city is left with no perfect option because the can was kicked too long down the road but it needs to be done or GF's growth will be limited.  Demers/42nd Ave Intersection also needs something done before 42nd Ave really starts to boom.   However, now it would be almost impossible with the entire area surrounded by developed properties. Sometimes I think people are too nearsighted or afraid to make tough decisions. 

[Cratter]

The blacktop they laid down on South Washington last year is already showing signs of deterioration.

[geaux_sioux]

On 12/20/2018 at 12:40 PM, northernraider said:

 

 Sometimes I think people are too nearsighted or afraid to make tough decisions. 

It’s a huge problem for Grand Forks as a whole.

[geaux_sioux]

16 minutes ago, Cratter said:

The blacktop they laid down on South Washington last year is always showing signs of deterioration.

Always or already?

[TheFlop]

3 hours ago, Cratter said:

The blacktop they laid down on South Washington last year is already showing signs of deterioration.

Yes, but for the low price they paid to do it and the 2-3 days total it took to do it they should do it every couple years until they have money to do a complete redo 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

59 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Yes, but for the low price they paid to do it and the 2-3 days total it took to do it they should do it every couple years until they have money to do a complete redo 

The complete redoes are for Columbia Road.

[UNDBIZ]

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/traffic-and-construction/1767841-Interchange-underpass-in-Grand-Forks-Someday-but-not-soon

Quote

Interchange, underpass in Grand Forks? Someday, but not soon

 

[UNDBIZ]

https://www.grandforksherald.com/incoming/4043454-Concrete-poured-on-33-foot-section-of-DeMers-Avenue

Quote

Construction soon will be moving from Phase I to Phase II, which will open DeMers Avenue to traffic, with North Third Street to be closed.

 

[Cratter]

On 12/18/2018 at 10:24 PM, Cratter said:

Why not 47th Ave South.

Looks like Mayor Brown agrees with me.

Quote

Brown said he’d prefer a bridge at 47th Avenue, which is in a less developed part of town and was designed to be an arterial street.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/government-and-politics/4048082-Grand-Forks-mayor-says-hell-veto-32nd-Avenue-bridge-spending

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

22 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Looks like Mayor Brown agrees with me.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/government-and-politics/4048082-Grand-Forks-mayor-says-hell-veto-32nd-Avenue-bridge-spending

Let's face it...32nd and 47th may be "arterial" in some people's minds, but it's in theory only.  With existing setbacks and developed properties, neither street is adequately prepped for heavy traffic east of Washington.

I still contend that there's significantly more land for an approach on the ND side at 32nd.  At 47th, you've got precious little real estate between the river, the flood wall, and Belmont, which probably translates to a much steeper rise and higher costs.

In any event, the Merrifield bypass needs to occur first so as not to tempt the beet drivers and other heavy truck traffic to drive through the area wherever the new neighborhood bridge is built.

[dmksioux]

28 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Let's face it...32nd and 47th may be "arterial" in some people's minds, but it's in theory only.  With existing setbacks and developed properties, neither street is adequately prepped for heavy traffic east of Washington.

I still contend that there's significantly more land for an approach on the ND side at 32nd.  At 47th, you've got precious little real estate between the river, the flood wall, and Belmont, which probably translates to a much steeper rise and higher costs.

In any event, the Merrifield bypass needs to occur first so as not to tempt the beet drivers and other heavy truck traffic to drive through the area wherever the new neighborhood bridge is built.

This definitely needs to happen.  Now that DeMers downtown has a nice road, they should not be allowing truck/beet trucks to drive through the heart of GF anymore.  They should be instructed to use Gateway and whatever bridge they can get built on the south end.  How far south is the closest crossing to GF currently?

[UND1983]

Do we really want more traffic heading by Schroeder and Kelly to get across the river?  How stupid would that be.

[fightingsioux4life]

4 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Let's face it...32nd and 47th may be "arterial" in some people's minds, but it's in theory only.  With existing setbacks and developed properties, neither street is adequately prepped for heavy traffic east of Washington.

I still contend that there's significantly more land for an approach on the ND side at 32nd.  At 47th, you've got precious little real estate between the river, the flood wall, and Belmont, which probably translates to a much steeper rise and higher costs.

In any event, the Merrifield bypass needs to occur first so as not to tempt the beet drivers and other heavy truck traffic to drive through the area wherever the new neighborhood bridge is built.

47th is perfect for a bridge. It does not have the driveways of 32nd and the one school (South Middle School) is set back from the road. Schroeder Middle School is practically right on top of 32nd, which is a serious safety issue.

Mayor Brown is spot on here. 47th Avenue South is the best choice going away.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

51 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

47th is perfect for a bridge. It does not have the driveways of 32nd and the one school (South Middle School) is set back from the road. Schroeder Middle School is practically right on top of 32nd, which is a serious safety issue.

Mayor Brown is stop on here. 47th Avenue South is the best choice going away.

It doesn't have the driveways, true, but you're looking at a lot of yards that will be heavily impacted, and homes and land to obtain via eminent domain.  ANY widening of 47th will require a lot of work and will result in no shortage of unhappy taxpayers.

Don't blame me or any of the anti-47th crowd...blame the city planners for not preserving enough land along 47th in the first place.

[jdub27]

19 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

It doesn't have the driveways, true, but you're looking at a lot of yards that will be heavily impacted, and homes and land to obtain via eminent domain.  ANY widening of 47th will require a lot of work and will result in no shortage of unhappy taxpayers.

Don't blame me or any of the anti-47th crowd...blame the city planners for not preserving enough land along 47th in the first place.

Once you get past Belmont, 47th is already wide enough to handle additional traffic all the way through to Columbia.

[OgieOgilthorpe]

I think a new exit toward the south end of town where everything is expanding to and where the infrastructure isn't already set would be the best option. In the big picture that would still be a good split spot instead of picking between 32nd ave exit or thompson exit. 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

46 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Once you get past Belmont, 47th is already wide enough to handle additional traffic all the way through to Columbia.

Tell that to the people east of Belmont.  As to whether 47th was "designed to be an arterial," reasonable minds may differ.  A suburban "2 lanes plus a center turn" sort of arterial in a town like GF, probably.  A major arterial served by a bridge and feeding traffic from across the river, maybe not, and there just isn't much room to grow along 47th.

Bridge landings and approaches require a fair amount of space, especially if you want a flood-proof bridge with a deck that clears the flood wall without being crazy steep.  The dike is close enough to Belmont that the designers don't have a lot of options.  

[Kab]

It should be as far south as possible and extend to I29 with a exit

the town will grow in that direction

[fightingsioux4life]

22 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Tell that to the people east of Belmont.  As to whether 47th was "designed to be an arterial," reasonable minds may differ.  A suburban "2 lanes plus a center turn" sort of arterial in a town like GF, probably.  A major arterial served by a bridge and feeding traffic from across the river, maybe not, and there just isn't much room to grow along 47th.

Bridge landings and approaches require a fair amount of space, especially if you want a flood-proof bridge with a deck that clears the flood wall without being crazy steep.  The dike is close enough to Belmont that the designers don't have a lot of options.  

Tough cookies. This bridge has to go somewhere and 47th has the fewest drawbacks. That Merrifield Bridge wouldn't get used enough to justify the cost (are truckers really going to go out of their way to drive across a bridge that far south?). As Ken Vein said in today's Heraldo, people will complain no matter where you put it. We can't just not do it because some people will be upset about it.  Based on that logic, the Columbia Road overpass would not exist today.

[jdub27]

51 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Tell that to the people east of Belmont.  As to whether 47th was "designed to be an arterial," reasonable minds may differ.  A suburban "2 lanes plus a center turn" sort of arterial in a town like GF, probably.  A major arterial served by a bridge and feeding traffic from across the river, maybe not, and there just isn't much room to grow along 47th.

Bridge landings and approaches require a fair amount of space, especially if you want a flood-proof bridge with a deck that clears the flood wall without being crazy steep.  The dike is close enough to Belmont that the designers don't have a lot of options.  

So 10ish houses or so, or roughly the exact same amount that would be on 32nd? My point was that 47th is built to handle more traffic up to Washington than 32nd is, and that's before taking into account schools. On 32nd, you're likely rebuilding about a mile of road (flood wall to Washington), on 47th, you're widening a couple blocks. And probably fair to note that the houses on the south side 47th (actually 14th Ave NE) and east of Belmont are set back from the road a fair amount, giving a bit more room to widen the road.

Using a direct line, the flood wall to the river is about 400 feet in both locations, give or take. 32nd does have move room to change the angle a bridge could come in, giving more room for a landing, but something like that obviously adds to the cost.

I'm not arguing either of them are great options, but I personally think when looking at the pros/cons of both, 47th makes more sense. Of course that's before any actual numbers are thrown out there.

[MrEdway]

7 hours ago, Kab said:

It should be as far south as possible and extend to I29 with a exit

the town will grow in that direction

It would be nice if you could build it at 47th and extend 47th east into MN all the way to Highway2.