Lennon

[UND-FB-FAN]

As long as UND overlooks football for niche sports, it won't be a top destination, even within the FCS. It wasn't in 2007 and it still isn't (goes for both coaches and recruits). Fortunately, with winning and lobbying from Bubba, I think the athletic administration can still come around to support UND football more. I also think the soon-to-be change in leadership at UND could positively affect the athletic department, as far as increasing the emphasis in certain sports...

There's no question, though, that things for UND football have been trending in the right direction since Bubba was hired. 

[Sodacker]

You can't blame Lennon for leaving. UND should have moved up right away instead of sitting on their hands. If anyone is to blame it would be the administration at the time. 

So he waits until they do make the move to leave? That sounds spiteful 

[airmail]

Obviously, many have shared that there were "cumulative reasons" why he left, how he left, etc. That innuendo notwithstanding, I still don't anticipate a carrot being thrown his way at UND.

[tnt]

This. 

The "fire the coach mentality" that you mention is just message board BS. And if coaches' feelings are hurt by what they read on a fan board, then I think they're in the wrong line of work. I don't think UND has ever been very quick on the trigger when it comes to letting coaches go. IMO, I think we've held on to people a lot longer than other schools would have, and in a few cases, much longer than we ever should have. 

It was tongue in cheek commentary on people jumping on Lennon for leaving while calling for every coaches head. 

[tnt]

dale won a natty. Hak didn't. End of story. Here was no fire Lennon threads and Lennon was king here 

So we have a guy that has done what you say that not many have done, but you want no part of him because he bailed on us.  You sure have a lot of preconditions on coaches or such. Have to be one of us.  Can't have left for another job.  Must win natty's.   So do they already have to have won a natty before we hire them?  Your conditions don't leave a lot of options open for hiring. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by tnt

[jdub27]

If anyone knows the cumulative reasons why Dale left and still is sour on him, so be it I guess...

However, I'd be willing to bet the majority don't know the details on that (maybe i'm wrong).  It appears to me that specifically gfhockey doesnt.

 

[The Sicatoka]

There was more to Dale leaving for SIU than ...

or 

OK ... go on ... 

Edited December 2, 2015 by The Sicatoka

[fight on sioux]

I think he got sick and tired of the lack of support for the FB program by the Administration. Also, the Athletic Department was in total chaos at the time and he didn't want to work under those conditions. The blame lies with UND's lack of support for FB, not Lennon.

EXACTLY.

[Boomer 40AAA]

Plain and simple Dale was offered a promotion and he took it.He doubled his salary and didn't owe UND anything.He succeeded Jerry Kill at SIU and Kills career definetely took off.Coaching is a profession that you need to move to get ahead.Hey look who Dales opponent was in the national championship game and look where he is today.Dale will be fine.

[VMeister]

Enlighten us please.  I wasn't at all happy how he left, when he left, what he left us with, and who he took with him.  Please tell my why, as a die hard Sioux football fan, I should not hold a grudge?  

An important part of what you're missing is the fact that Dale didn't want to leave.

He begged Mr. Tom B. and then Mr. Phil H. to make a commitment to him and to the football program.  He would have gladly stayed here at 100K instead of going to SIU for 200K.

There's plenty of things in the last 10 years at UND to be pissed off about.  Dale Lennon isn't one of them.

[petey23]

Plain and simple Dale was offered a promotion and he took it.He doubled his salary and didn't owe UND anything.He succeeded Jerry Kill at SIU and Kills career definetely took off.Coaching is a profession that you need to move to get ahead.Hey look who Dales opponent was in the national championship game and look where he is today.Dale will be fine.

The timing for Dale was good. The timing for UND was bad.......but it could have been different. What if Mussman had gotten the UMD job instead of Bubba(I believe it came down to the 2 of them). Would Bubba have been a good hire in 2008 if he had been on staff vs. being 22-21 at UMD...obviously Dale may have asked him to go with but he may have been named head coach then. He left UMD the same year but if I remember we didn't open the job up.

[UNDBIZ]

The timing for Dale was good. The timing for UND was bad.......but it could have been different. What if Mussman had gotten the UMD job instead of Bubba(I believe it came down to the 2 of them). Would Bubba have been a good hire in 2008 if he had been on staff vs. being 22-21 at UMD...obviously Dale may have asked him to go with but he may have been named head coach then. He left UMD the same year but if I remember we didn't open the job up.

I think the time at UMD was probably a good thing for Bubba.  A coach like Bubba can learn a lot from that experience, even if it wasn't as successful as he may have hoped.  

[UNDvince97-01]

An important part of what you're missing is the fact that Dale didn't want to leave.

He begged Mr. Tom B. and then Mr. Phil H. to make a commitment to him and to the football program.  He would have gladly stayed here at 100K instead of going to SIU for 200K.

There's plenty of things in the last 10 years at UND to be pissed off about.  Dale Lennon isn't one of them.

We have a winner. ^^^^^

Dale also attempted to take care of his staff and keep it intact, which fell on deaf ears.

"Dale, you can be replaced ya know....plenty of other coaches out there"...

He gave them ample and fair warning by interviewing in Bozeman and turning it down.

They thought he was bluffing.  Then SIU came calling the next year.

Edited December 3, 2015 by UNDvince97-01

[2TRU4U]

I would say he left for personal gain at UND football expense.  Tell me why this is an incorrect assumption.  As of today I don't think he gained anything but I sure the hell know he cost our football program a lot.

didn't Bubba leave for some reason?

[ksixpack]

didn't Bubba leave for some reason?

Head Coach a professional step up from Defensive Coordinator

[petey23]

I think the time at UMD was probably a good thing for Bubba.  A coach like Bubba can learn a lot from that experience, even if it wasn't as successful as he may have hoped.  

I agree. Just pointing out that we didn't open the job up when Dale left and the timing probably wasn't right for Bubba  but if he had still been on staff he likely would have got the gig.

[Siouxperman8]

I asked this earlier but didn't get any response.  Does anyone know if Dale was asked if he had any interest in returning before Bubba was hired?

[Milford torgerson]

.  Then SIU came calling.

I think that is what happened too.  Dale didn't apply for the job, SIU came to him

[Milford torgerson]

I would say he left for personal gain at UND football expense.  Tell me why this is an incorrect assumption.  As of today I don't think he gained anything but I sure the hell know he cost our football program a lot.

It cost the program, no doubt about it.  What Dale gained was around 100 grand a year at a respected and established D1 program.  I'm sure this stint didn't end how dale was hoping but to say he gained nothing is short sighted. Now we are respected and established too but at the time we were in transition in the Great West conf. and paying a lot less. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Milford torgerson
left something out

[UNDvince97-01]

Lets also not forget that Dale did something immediately that he didnt have to do by scheduling UND for a non-conference game in Carbondale at a time during the transition when scheduling for UND was.....lets say....difficult...for quite some time.

How selfish of him.

Edited December 3, 2015 by UNDvince97-01

[fightingsioux4life]

It cost the program, no doubt about it.  What Dale gained was around 100 grand a year at a respected and established D1 program.  I'm sure this stint didn't end how dale was hoping but to say he gained nothing is short sighted. 

People are also forgetting that SIU was making an all-out commitment to their FB program when they went after Lennon. New stadium, all new facilities, the whole nine yards. After begging for table scraps at UND, that was too good to pass up.

[bincitysioux]

I really think Dale made a mistake when he didn't take the Montana St. job that was offered to him in 2007.  I have no ill-will toward him for going to SIU the following year because he was doubling his salary, getting away from a disfuncional athletic department at the time, and facing a 5 year purgatory of a transition to DI.

I just don't know what he saw in SIU compared to Montana St. the year before.  Being at SIU isn't unlike being at UND in that the football program will always be the 2nd tier sport.  Sure, Southern Illinois won a I-AA title in the 80's, but outside of that one good year and the Jerry Kill/Early Lennon era, the Salukis have always been lucky to be .500.  Seems like Bozeman would have been a much better fit for Dale.

I think right now both Montana St. and USD would be foolish not to give Dale a look for their openings.  I really think USD would be a great fit for him right now.

[UNDvince97-01]

I really think Dale made a mistake when he didn't take the Montana St. job that was offered to him in 2007.  I have no ill-will toward him for going to SIU the following year because he was doubling his salary, getting away from a disfuncional athletic department at the time, and facing a 5 year purgatory of a transition to DI.

I just don't know what he saw in SIU compared to Montana St. the year before.  Being at SIU isn't unlike being at UND in that the football program will always be the 2nd tier sport.  Sure, Southern Illinois won a I-AA title in the 80's, but outside of that one good year and the Jerry Kill/Early Lennon era, the Salukis have always been lucky to be .500.  Seems like Bozeman would have been a much better fit for Dale.

I think right now both Montana St. and USD would be foolish not to give Dale a look for their openings.  I really think USD would be a great fit for him right now.

I believe it was completely circumstantial relative to who offered and when.

I think if SIU had come in first in 2007, he would have still said no.  If Montana St had come in 2008, he would have said yes.

I agree with you that Montana State is the better opportunity now, but because of all the off the field "black eyes" in the football program before Ash arrived, I think that played a factor in his ultimate decision making regarding the job in Bozeman.

Dale is a Montana type of guy, if that makes sense, for a lot of different reasons.

I'd say there is about a 1% chance he even considers USD and about 10% chance he considers Montana State.  Of course that's assuming they both were to go after him.  However, this is speculation on my part as I have no recent direct knowledge of either situation specifically.

Edited December 3, 2015 by UNDvince97-01

[ClassB]

I think we took a step toward establishing the program this year but wouldn't call it established in the eyes of FCS. I fully expect a playoff season next fall just like everyone else but if you want the respect of other FCS fans, not sure if I'd refer to us as established yet.

[Mama Sue]

I think he got sick and tired of the lack of support for the FB program by the Administration. Also, the Athletic Department was in total chaos at the time and he didn't want to work under those conditions. The blame lies with UND's lack of support for FB, not Lennon.

I think Dale is  a  class act.  I don't know  lot about football but as a man, yes he is a positive leader!