fightingsioux4life Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Just now, Bison06 said: Many on this board deride bison fans for acting a certain way towards anything UND related. I've even heard directly and indirectly on this board that UND fans are somehow above the fray in regards to these types of discussions. Isn't it interesting that you are eluding to the fact that you aren't objectively assessing wentz, but rather saying "turnabout is fair play". It seems when the shoe is on the other foot it's ok to be specifically bias toward ndsu, but it wasn't ok when ndsu fans were doing it? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Like I said, I have nothing against anyone on NDSU's team that makes it at the next level. That is always a tremendous accomplishment, especially for a kid from an FCS or lower school. I just take exception to the idea that we are supposed to be all nice and sweet and objective towards NDSU and their alums on our own discussion forum when the same thing does NOT take place on Bisonville. Rivals are going to be biased against each other, that is the nature of the beast. Oh wait, that's right, your REAL rival now is SDSU and that stupid piece of crap Dakota Marker Trophy you play for every year. Sorry for the confusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said: Seems like a definition for butt hurt does it not? No, it's simply dishing it out and not just taking it. Especially on a forum called siouxsports.com....not to be confused with Bisonville. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: Like I said, I have nothing against anyone on NDSU's team that makes it at the next level. That is always a tremendous accomplishment, especially for a kid from an FCS or lower school. I just take exception to the idea that we are supposed to be all nice and sweet and objective towards NDSU and their alums on our own discussion forum when the same thing does NOT take place on Bisonville. Rivals are going to be biased against each other, that is the nature of the beast. Oh wait, that's right, your REAL rival now is SDSU and that stupid piece of crap Dakota Marker Trophy you play for every year. Sorry for the confusion. I'm certainly not asking anyone to be a wentz cheerleader, just don't allow your ndsu hatred to lead you to say ridiculous things like "he will be decimated at the next level", "this is the most overrated QB class in a decade". I realize you didn't specifically say either of those, but you and others aligned yourself with that side of the argument. Both of those things could turn out to be true, but there is literally no evidence to support such a stance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Just now, Bison06 said: I'm certainly not asking anyone to be a wentz cheerleader, just don't allow your ndsu hatred to lead you to say ridiculous things like "he will be decimated at the next level", "this is the most overrated QB class in a decade". I realize you didn't specifically say either of those, but you and others aligned yourself with that side of the argument. Both of those things could turn out to be true, but there is literally no evidence to support such a stance. Honestly, the Senior Bowl and the Scouting Combine are horribly overrated. And I really don't care about anything other than what my Minnesota Vikings do on draft day. Which is a lot more pleasant to watch now that Denny Green isn't around making bad decisions (pass up on Warren Sapp, are you *bleeping* kidding me?) anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: Honestly, the Senior Bowl and the Scouting Combine are horribly overrated. And I really don't care about anything other than what my Minnesota Vikings do on draft day. Which is a lot more pleasant to watch now that Denny Green isn't around making bad decisions (pass up on Warren Sapp, are you *bleeping* kidding me?) anymore. Overrated as to who the really talented players are at the next level? Agreed. Overrated in regards to who GM's and player personnel guys will draft in higher positions? Disagree. The NFL is notorious for latching onto players who look the part and have the athletic measurables to fit the mold. Performing well at both is definitely going to help anyone's draft stock. Agreed on the Vikings, it seems they may finally have a player personnel team and coaches over there who can properly evaluate talent. The last two drafts have impressed the hell out of me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, Bison06 said: Overrated as to who the really talented players are at the next level? Agreed. Overrated in regards to who GM's and player personnel guys will draft in higher positions? Disagree. The NFL is notorious for latching onto players who look the part and have the athletic measurables to fit the mold. Performing well at both is definitely going to help anyone's draft stock. Agreed on the Vikings, it seems they may finally have a player personnel team and coaches over there who can properly evaluate talent. The last two drafts have impressed the hell out of me. NFL is also notorious for throwing out smoke screens on players up until draft day. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on the draft class. Even Mel Kiper is wrong half the time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Bison06 said: What are Carson's weaknesses that you feel will have him "decimated" at the next level? I'm not he one who started the weak QB prospects story. I'm pretty sure that's what they have been saying all year. wentz will be decimated when he stares down receivers while under pressure from a pro dline and a weak oline. We have not seen him play under much pressure in his career and now the defenses just got a whole lot better. Who ever drafts him better not plan to start him. If he has the potential he is going to need to be coached up to the next level QB skills. Geaux sioux your the one who is butt hurt because your lame logos didn't get picked by UND...... 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said: I'm not he one who started the weak QB prospects story. I'm pretty sure that's what they have been saying all year. wentz will be decimated when he stares down receivers while under pressure from a pro dline and a weak oline. We have not seen him play under much pressure in his career and now the defenses just got a whole lot better. Who ever drafts him better not plan to start him. If he has the potential he is going to need to be coached up to the next level QB skills. Geaux sioux your the one who is butt hurt because your lame logos didn't get picked by UND...... Scouts have specifically mentioned carsons ability to look off safeties. In fact they said it again during the senior bowl on the completion up the seam to the Ohio state TE. As for the rest of your critique, those apply to every player moving into the NFL so I'm not sure how that is a valid discussion point on specifically why he wouldn't be effective in the NFL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 He has to move up two levels. So a little different for him compared to those in the FBS . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said: I'm not he one who started the weak QB prospects story. I'm pretty sure that's what they have been saying all year. wentz will be decimated when he stares down receivers while under pressure from a pro dline and a weak oline. We have not seen him play under much pressure in his career and now the defenses just got a whole lot better. Who ever drafts him better not plan to start him. If he has the potential he is going to need to be coached up to the next level QB skills. Wentz was very good at the fcs level and has the physical tools to be good in the nfl. Whether he can make that jump is certainly up for debate, but as it is he's regarded as a good prospect. Personally, I'm not going to cheer for him, but I'm not going to write him off as garbage either. 9 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said: Geaux sioux your the one who is butt hurt because your lame logos didn't get picked by UND...... Really? What does this have to do with anything? Also, just a personal request, can we all leave the words "butt hurt" over on bisonville where such low brow insults belong? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Sioux>Bison said: He has to move up two levels. So a little different for him compared to those in the FBS . That's not exactly how it works. In fact, I believe Carson will be under even more scrutiny in the scouting process due to the "disadvantage" of coming from an FCS school. People will view him with a much more skeptic eye and if after that additional scrutiny he still gets drafted where he is currently projected, it will be that much more impressive to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't looked it up. But has an FCS player ever been drafted in the top 10? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said: There is a deep butt hurt undertones to some of these opinions. It's clear as day. The guy is from Bismarck we should be happy that he could be the top pick in the draft. We should also be happy that he can't throw for any more TDs on our defense. Does anyone recall Bison fans drooling over a kid from Carrington who was drafted by Minnesota, or any other UND players that got drafted? It works both ways there are Bison fans who don't care about UND players from college on, and there are UND fans who don't care about Bison players from college on...unless he is on your fantasy team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I don't get why Carson will be decimated, he isn't a Christian Ponder with a noodle arm nor a Johnny football/Leaf with a destructive personality. He has the physical tools, he is a smart and humble kid, a team guy. I think the senior bowl week proved that the situation isn't too big for him. He handled everything very well and looked like he belonged on that field. I don't know if I would take him at #2 or #4 but if I was Houston or St Louis(Oops I mean LA) or Buffalo I would be all over him in round one. In the NFL you need a QB to succeed, with the right coaching and talent surrounding him I have no doubt Carson can start and succeed in the NFL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 35 minutes ago, Bison06 said: . But has an FCS player ever been drafted in the top 10? Steve McNair went third overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 33 minutes ago, Bison06 said: That's not exactly how it works. In fact, I believe Carson will be under even more scrutiny in the scouting process due to the "disadvantage" of coming from an FCS school. People will view him with a much more skeptic eye and if after that additional scrutiny he still gets drafted where he is currently projected, it will be that much more impressive to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't looked it up. But has an FCS player ever been drafted in the top 10? Skeptic as in the level of competition he has faced in the FCS, compared to someone from a p5 or even g5 school? If NDSU didn't win 5 NC in a row would he get the same look? I would think that type of publicity could make or break him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, FargoBison said: I don't get why Carson will be decimated, he isn't a Christian Ponder with a noodle arm nor a Johnny football/Leaf with a destructive personality. He has the physical tools, he is a smart and humble kid, a team guy. I think the senior bowl week proved that the situation isn't too big for him. He handled everything very well and looked like he belonged on that field. I don't know if I would take him at #2 or #4 but if I was Houston or St Louis or Buffalo I would be all over him in round one. In the NFL you need a QB to succeed, with the right coaching and talent surrounding him I have no doubt Carson can start and succeed in the NFL. This is a big thing Wentz has going for him. No trouble at NDSU and i doubt he would have trouble in that state in the NFL. Manzel was a bust after all the hype and if Dallas goes for him (rumors are flying he could), Wentz would be better off being elsewhere as you don't want someone like that teaching you the game. Given the right person (QB or coach) he could do good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 42 minutes ago, darell1976 said: Skeptic as in the level of competition he has faced in the FCS, compared to someone from a p5 or even g5 school? If NDSU didn't win 5 NC in a row would he get the same look? I would think that type of publicity could make or break him. It's hard to separate a player from the success they've had. Would Cam Newton be the likely MVP if his team wasn't 15-1 in the regular season? Impossible question to answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 47 minutes ago, Cratter said: Steve McNair went third overall. Thanks, I figured there was someone, but nobody immediately came to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said: Really? What does this have to do with anything? Also, just a personal request, can we all leave the words "butt hurt" over on bisonville where such low brow insults belong? I didnt start he butt hurt comments so redirect your complaints to geaux sioux i will write him off until I SEE something otherwise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Cratter said: Steve McNair went third overall. Walter Payton went #4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 19 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said: I didnt start he butt hurt comments so redirect your complaints to geaux sioux i will write him off until I SEE something otherwise The arrogance of football fans at times never ceases to amaze. People who do this for a living are impressed with Carson, but you haven't seen enough yet? And before you say scouting is an inexact science, they are right a hell of a lot more often than some two-bit arm chair quarterback on a message board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F'n Hawks Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 These fights between fans are really entertaining. Carson Wentz will be the first or second QB drafted. How he will do in the NFL idk(or care) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux rube Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I for one have enjoyed every second of coverage Carson received this past week. Folks can doubt him all they want just like many did when he was named the starter for the FCS championship game. It's been a fun ride so far and will continue to be for hopefully years to come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Bison06 said: And before you say scouting is an inexact science, they are right a hell of a lot more often than some two-bit arm chair quarterback on a message board. So get off your soapbox, and settle back in to your arm chair 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 On 1/30/2016 at 2:36 PM, geaux_sioux said: Some are. Just becaus Wentz is a top prospect doesn't mean this class sucks. He's got everything that makes scouts drool. True, but the same experts back in November said that if you are looking for a starting qb in this draft you are out of luck. QB is the main focus of every team and those who cover football and Carson has elevated himself to the top of this draft class. Best scenario for him is to go to a team with a starting QB at the end of his career(Dallas) and he can step in when ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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