UND's New Hockey Conference

[Siouxman]

This situation raises a number of questions:

1) One has to wonder what is running through Barry Alvarez's mind these days regarding Penn St.

2) Can this situation affect the alumni donation situation to start the Penn St. hockey program? If it does, what happens to the BTHC?

3) Will this affect Penn. St. alumni donations for athletics in general, and if so, what will be the long-term impacts?

4) As Goon pointed out, how will the loss of Big Ten revenue hurt the other conference schools?

5) Does this raise the stakes and investigative threshold when a team applies to join a conference? Are conferences going to have to upgrade their membership checklist?

6) What might this result in at the NCAA level for additional rules/regulations?

[ScottM]

Since Penn State is a state institution, is it possible the state legislature will dictate that no state funds can go to pay the NCAA fines nor replace any dollars used to pay the NCAA fines? That might be very devastating to any financial recovery plan for athletics.

They'll probably file a claim with their insurer, if they haven't already, for at least part of the sanction. Plus, they have a pretty decent endowment for a larger state school.

From a financial perspective, the $60MM represents a year of the football program's revenue. Since football effectively supports other "non-revenue" sports at most big schools, you have wonder how the sanctions, etc. will impact their entire athletic program over the long-term.

[Smoggy]

From a financial perspective, the $60MM represents a year of the football program's revenue. Since football effectively supports other "non-revenue" sports at most big schools, you have wonder how the sanctions, etc. will impact their entire athletic program over the long-term.

They get 5 years to pay off the 60 million. The non-revenue sports funding is not allowed to go down according to NCAA.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Why would a young person want to play any sport at Penn State now, let alone football? That place has a black eye that will last for a generation.

[Siouxperfan7]

Why would a young person want to play any sport at Penn State now, let alone football? That place has a black eye that will last for a generation.

I am sure Penn state can "live with" the sanctions and it won't affect their program as much as people are saying .

[UNDColorado]

I am sure Penn state can "live with" the sanctions and it won't affect their program as much as people are saying .

Haha, I see what you did there!

[GeauxSioux]

I just don't see how the Big Ten can do much more... I guess we stand by and watch.

Add another $13M in lost revenues.... http://www.wibc.com/news/Story.aspx?ID=1743378

I wonder how much money they lose from the loss of advertising revenue??

[Goon]

Add another $13M in lost revenues.... http://www.wibc.com/...aspx?ID=1743378

I wonder how much money they lose from the loss of advertising revenue??

Yep - that's 73 million, that's a big chunk of change. I guess we can't cue the "Minor Sanctions" mantra in this case. Kind of makes one wonder if the NCAA would have lowered the boom on UND if they had failed to change their nickname. Universities should be very worried now.

[yzerman19]

I've lived in Minneapolis for 17 years. Safe is relative. I would not be comfortable with my wife and a girldriend walking around down there late at night. I live in south Minneapolis in a neighborhood of 500kish homes, and there are occasional police helicopters and searchlights at night. I feel safer downtown Chicgao and downtown NYC at night- heck even center city in Philly feels safer than downtown Minny.

[yzerman19]

Somehow my reply went to the wrong thread...on iphone

[The Sicatoka]

A school transitioning from DII to DI (FCS):

- no playoffs for four years

- scholarships capped at 63

Penn State child sex abuse penalty:

- no playoffs for four years

- scholarships capped at 65

Puts a little different spin on that part of what PSU got, doesn't it.

(Disclaimer: Concept stolen from another forum.)

[Siouxperfan7]

A school transitioning from DII to DI (FCS):

- no playoffs for four years

- scholarships capped at 63

Penn State child sex abuse penalty:

- no playoffs for four years

- scholarships capped at 65

Puts a little different spin on that part of what PSU got, doesn't it.

(Disclaimer: Concept stolen from another forum.)

Only difference is FBS schools lose millions each year when they don't make a bowl game. FCS schools lose thousands.

[The Sicatoka]

One more thing:

I'm am definitely not in favor of how the NCAA did this.

This was the Executive Committee and NCAA president making it up as they go along ... again: Another pure power-grab move.

[FSSD]

Yep - that's 73 million, that's a big chunk of change. I guess we can't cue the "Minor Sanctions" mantra in this case. Kind of makes one wonder if the NCAA would have lowered the boom on UND if they had failed to change their nickname. Universities should be very worried now.

If it was brought against UND yes - but PSU no! I don't think these are major sanctions - this is a bunch of nothing..

- So they can bring in 15 versus 20 guys annually - they are still playing at home in front of 100,000 fans who are still paying the same or higher prices for the ticket. They are still going to be on TV just no bowl game. They won't even be the worst team in the Big Ten - The Big Ten has some bad football (Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota).

- They pay ~ $14 million annually for the next 5 years - total revenue last year $116 million total expense last year 101 million - total profit by the athletic program last year 15 million. Total student fees or school funds last year - $0. So, PSU or the students might have to chip in to the athletic program for 4/5 years - Big deal. UND students and school fund approxiamately 40% of the total budget or $9 million. So, PSU/students might match what UND students do to make up for the short fall.

- They vacated wins big deal.. you still hear about the Fab 5 and those wins don't count.

Penn St. deserved the dealth penalty+ and the NCAA did not come close to that.. simple Grand Standing by the NCAA.

[Sodbuster]

If it was brought against UND yes - but PSU no! I don't think these are major sanctions - this is a bunch of nothing..

- So they can bring in 15 versus 20 guys annually - they are still playing at home in front of 100,000 fans who are still paying the same or higher prices for the ticket. They are still going to be on TV just no bowl game. They won't even be the worst team in the Big Ten - The Big Ten has some bad football (Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota).

- They pay ~ $14 million annually for the next 5 years - total revenue last year $116 million total expense last year 101 million - total profit by the athletic program last year 15 million. Total student fees or school funds last year - $0. So, PSU or the students might have to chip in to the athletic program for 4/5 years - Big deal. UND students and school fund approxiamately 40% of the total budget or $9 million. So, PSU/students might match what UND students do to make up for the short fall.

- They vacated wins big deal.. you still hear about the Fab 5 and those wins don't count.

Penn St. deserved the dealth penalty+ and the NCAA did not come close to that.. simple Grand Standing by the NCAA.

They're fortunate that the NCAA didn't deem their nickname offensive.

[ScottM]

One more thing:

I'm am definitely not in favor of how the NCAA did this.

This was the Executive Committee and NCAA president making it up as they go along ... again: Another pure power-grab move.

But they'd never use/abuse that power again ... would they?

[The Sicatoka]

But they'd never use/abuse that power again ... would they?

Oh my oh my, no, no, no. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

I think the NCAA should rename the Executive Committee and President to Central Party Committee and First Chairman.

[bincitysioux]

If it was brought against UND yes - but PSU no! I don't think these are major sanctions - this is a bunch of nothing..

- So they can bring in 15 versus 20 guys annually - they are still playing at home in front of 100,000 fans who are still paying the same or higher prices for the ticket. They are still going to be on TV just no bowl game. They won't even be the worst team in the Big Ten - The Big Ten has some bad football (Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota).

- They pay ~ $14 million annually for the next 5 years - total revenue last year $116 million total expense last year 101 million - total profit by the athletic program last year 15 million. Total student fees or school funds last year - $0. So, PSU or the students might have to chip in to the athletic program for 4/5 years - Big deal. UND students and school fund approxiamately 40% of the total budget or $9 million. So, PSU/students might match what UND students do to make up for the short fall.

- They vacated wins big deal.. you still hear about the Fab 5 and those wins don't count.

Penn St. deserved the dealth penalty+ and the NCAA did not come close to that.. simple Grand Standing by the NCAA.

The loss of that number of scholarships over that time frame to a such a prominent program is a huge deal. That, coupled with the 4 year bowl ban (basically a national chamionship ban) will for all intensive purposes cripple Penn St. for the next 10-12 years if not longer.

I agree that this was grand standing by the NCAA. Because they had no business injecting themselves into this issue. This was a criminal matter, not an athletic one. There was obviously a major ethical problem going on that needs to be dealt with, but it had nothing to do with athletics, exploitation of student-athletes, or gaining an unfair advantage on the playing field which is what the NCAA is supposed to regulate.

I would have loved to have seen them get the dealth penalty, just to witness all the chaos that would have ensued. But the NCAA learned their lesson when they killed SMU football. That cost the NCAA alot of money over the last 30 years. We'll never see the death penalty again..........................

[fightingsioux4life]

Oh my oh my, no, no, no. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

I think the NCAA should rename the Executive Committee and President to Central Party Committee and First Chairman.

I think I renamed them the Politburo and the Secretary-General during the early years of the fight against the NCAA. But I like your version as well.

[The Sicatoka]

I think I renamed them the Politburo and the Secretary-General during the early years of the fight against the NCAA. But I like your version as well.

Khrushchev and Mao were "First Chairman" for their respective Central Committees.

[The Sicatoka]

But they'd never use/abuse that power again ... would they?

That's the prayer in Missoula, Montana.

[Siouxperfan7]

The loss of that number of scholarships over that time frame to a such a prominent program is a huge deal. That, coupled with the 4 year bowl ban (basically a national chamionship ban) will for all intensive purposes cripple Penn St. for the next 10-12 years if not longer.

I agree that this was grand standing by the NCAA. Because they had no business injecting themselves into this issue. This was a criminal matter, not an athletic one. There was obviously a major ethical problem going on that needs to be dealt with, but it had nothing to do with athletics, exploitation of student-athletes, or gaining an unfair advantage on the playing field which is what the NCAA is supposed to regulate.

I would have loved to have seen them get the dealth penalty, just to witness all the chaos that would have ensued. But the NCAA learned their lesson when they killed SMU football. That cost the NCAA alot of money over the last 30 years. We'll never see the death penalty again..........................

I will disagree with you that in fact it did have to do with atheletics and gaining an advantage on the playing field. Why did they keep all of this a secret. Paterno knew about this. The fact that he didn't report this is awful. If all of this would have come out 10 years ago, they would have most likely fired Paterno back then. You don't think that Penn State has a recruiting advantage in Joe Paterno? He is their number one football recruiting tool. Not having him as head coach would have dramatically hurt recruiting of top players. So because they covered up all these allegations, they knew their were going to be reprocutions if this ever came out. So by keeping it a secret and having Joe Paterno continue to remain the head coach, they absulutely gained an advantage in recruiting which translates to the playing field. So vacating all wins during this time persiod was ,IMO, absulutely appropriate.

[scpa0305]

I will disagree with you that in fact it did have to do with atheletics and gaining an advantage on the playing field. Why did they keep all of this a secret. Paterno knew about this. The fact that he didn't report this is awful. If all of this would have come out 10 years ago, they would have most likely fired Paterno back then. You don't think that Penn State has a recruiting advantage in Joe Paterno? He is their number one football recruiting tool. Not having him as head coach would have dramatically hurt recruiting of top players. So because they covered up all these allegations, they knew their were going to be reprocutions if this ever came out. So by keeping it a secret and having Joe Paterno continue to remain the head coach, they absulutely gained an advantage in recruiting which translates to the playing field. So vacating all wins during this time persiod was ,IMO, absulutely appropriate.

True. Right on.

[GFG]

The scholarships ban + the 4 year bowl ban and black eye that was left by Sandusky absolutely decimates their football program. They can only have 65 players on scholarship for four years instead of 85 and they can only bring 15 new scholarship players every year during those four years. That's going to completely cripple their program. Recruiting will be a nightmare for them because they have nothing special about them anymore. Joe Paterno was the Penn State football program, and with him and all of his accomplishments gone, they literally have nothing. Their program will be destroyed for at least a decade, and that's a guarantee. I'll go as far as to saying it will be well over a decade from now before they get back to the level they were at, maybe a couple decades. They just got lucky they didn't get the 4 year death penalty that was almost given to them.

They'll have a VERY tough time even competing with a team like Indiana, guaranteed.

[tnt]

The scholarships ban + the 4 year bowl ban and black eye that was left by Sandusky absolutely decimates their football program. They can only have 65 players on scholarship for four years instead of 85 and they can only bring 15 new scholarship players every year during those four years. That's going to completely cripple their program. Recruiting will be a nightmare for them because they have nothing special about them anymore. Joe Paterno was the Penn State football program, and with him and all of his accomplishments gone, they literally have nothing. Their program will be destroyed for at least a decade, and that's a guarantee. I'll go as far as to saying it will be well over a decade from now before they get back to the level they were at, maybe a couple decades. They just got lucky they didn't get the 4 year death penalty that was almost given to them.

They'll have a VERY tough time even competing with a team like Indiana, guaranteed.

True they lose the scholarships, but let's face it, NDSU outclassed Minnesota with less scholarships than Penn State will have. If they have a mass exodus to begin with it will be a long haul, but if they can sell the Bowl-type atmosphere for every home game, they may lessen the damage like USC has done.