UND @ NDSU 11/19/2022

[forksandspoons]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

That’s a good point, but doesn’t account for biggest flaw: the defense. 
 

D looked awful all year and they were both physically and mentally unprepared yesterday for the season’s biggest game to this point. Awful. 

Agreed, the defense was awful. But the Bison had really good starting field position a few times which isn’t ideal given the defense. Some can be attributed to the offense and some to the special teams. Still confused why we kicked it to the 25 yard line to start the second half. Why not just kick it out of bounds at that point? 

[UND-FB-FAN]

53 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Gotta do something. 

I completely agree with this. The status quo isn’t working. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

9 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

For some reason Miller gets no credit for being a good QB. He is efficient as a runner and has a strong arm and throws a good ball. Maybe even a better runner and a stronger arm than Tommy. 
 

And btw. Nobody is talking about the sure pick-6 Tommy threw to a Bison LB that was dropped. The game could have gotten even uglier if that wasn’t dropped.

Seriously, we don't need a Bison fan on here bragging up their team.
Go to Bisonville and pat your team players on the back over there.

[UND-FB-FAN]

44 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

That NDSU team is pretty damn good when they play up to their full potential. Miller is a very good QB. He does what they ask him to do. He is a very good running QB and decent passer. Miller made himself look good more than we made him look good. Schuster didn’t have a good game but Bison secondary is very good and their defense was pressing him even when they didn’t get to him. I don’t know why we played so poorly defensively early on but we have struggled to play consistently on defense all year. We were ok offensively and had the defense been more than a speed bump, we would have been ok. 

Yes, Bison are very, very good. We get it. But it’s the instate rival for UND and they aren’t going away. They are the gate keepers to UND being successful. They are the benchmark. In 2013, UND switched coaching staffs and it was cited that the inability to compete with the Big Sky Conference competition was a major reason. So, now UND can’t compete with NDSU. Now what? Keep praising NDSU, or do we control what we can control and better ourselves (UND)?

 

I posed the question yesterday; what’s the goal? UND to ascend (basically become top 5 program because that’s what is takes to top NDSU) or NDSU to descend? We could be waiting a long time for NDSU to descend, and no competitor who’s successful in life should want to choose the latter option. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

10 minutes ago, forksandspoons said:

Agreed, the defense was awful. But the Bison had really good starting field position a few times which isn’t ideal given the defense. Some can be attributed to the offense and some to the special teams. Still confused why we kicked it to the 25 yard line to start the second half. Why not just kick it out of bounds at that point? 

Very early in the game, down only 7 points, UND had NDSU backed up on their own 4 yard line. 96 yard field to go. UND could’ve grabbed back momentum with good field position.  What do they do? Blow a coverage with an awful mental error and give up a 50+ yard catch and run. Culprit was a player who played all year despite being bad all season. Coaches didn’t adjust. 
 

They had field position. The defense just pissed it down their leg. God awful. Killed momentum and the game was an onslaught from there on. Unacceptable.

[Hawkster]

11 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Very early in the game, down only 7 points, UND had NDSU backed up on their own 4 yard line. 96 yard field to go. UND could’ve grabbed back momentum with good field position.  What do they do? Blow a coverage with an awful mental error and give up a 50+ yard catch and run. Culprit was a player who played all year despite being bad all season. Coaches didn’t adjust. 
 

They had field position. The defense just pissed it down their leg. God awful. Killed momentum and the game was an onslaught from there on. Unacceptable.

There was one good thing about that first long reception, and that's the speed we had to run down that Bison receiver.  That Bison guy looked like someone's grandma going down the field compared to our guys.

[geaux_sioux]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Bubba is a great man, but I think this season represents his ceiling as a head coach.  The bigger the game, the worse we play.  So many big games and opportunities squandered during his era.  The game yesterday was painful to watch and reminded me of so many other big games during this era.  If the team responds like they did yesterday during the entire year, we likely have 1-2 wins.  There was nothing special about that NDSU team, nor the plays which put the game out of reach, we just weren't ready to play.  

The Special teams were bad, can we just kick the ball out of bounds?

The offense was anemic, back to the 4 yard pass on 3rd and 9 and Tommy seemed to be rattled the entire game.  Without the short throw Belquist turned into 63 yards, we averaged about 5 yards per pass attempt and that doesn't include the sacks and scrambles.

The defense was as bad as it has been all year.  Couldn't stop the run at all and made Miller look like he is Lamar Jackson.

 

3 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Also not sold on this coaching staff and S/C staff to develop the young players into anything exceptional. They do alright, just not at a championship level.
 

Also, I’m now fully convinced UND with this staff will never have the team mentally prepared to consistently win big games. 7-4 is really the ceiling; can’t expect UND to win big road games, or even top 5 home games, which is necessary to be a top 5 team that’s gets home field advantage in playoffs. That needs to be goal; remember importance of being in Alerus all the way through in 2001? Being in the FD for nearly all the playoffs has been important to NDSU’s championship run.
 

Disappointing. Culture change needs to happen, and after 8 years of this staff, it won’t happen without change to some degree. 

Would his ceiling not be 2016 when we were a seeded team? 9-2 remember is more wins than 7-4.

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

I would play Koshiol. He tackles well. I think he is less likely to be out of position or miss an assignment.  Speed may be the factor but I’d rather have a guy who is assignment sharp and can tackle.  Especially against a run team. Just a guess. I’m not at practice so who knows. Gotta do something. 

Koshiol should also be an OLB

[geaux_sioux]

59 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

That NDSU team is pretty damn good when they play up to their full potential. Miller is a very good QB. He does what they ask him to do. He is a very good running QB and decent passer. Miller made himself look good more than we made him look good. Schuster didn’t have a good game but Bison secondary is very good and their defense was pressing him even when they didn’t get to him. I don’t know why we played so poorly defensively early on but we have struggled to play consistently on defense all year. We were ok offensively and had the defense been more than a speed bump, we would have been ok. 

I think our system is too complex on d. There’s no reason an all conference grad transfer from Cal Poly should take most of the year to get comfortable. I’d much prefer a simple system that guys can easily execute at a high level at full speed than one that makes them constantly think and play slow as a result. I prefer the Wade Philips philosophy.

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

 

Would his ceiling not be 2016 when we were a seeded team? 9-2 remember is more wins than 7-4.

That 9-2 team collapsed at home in playoffs despite a 24-7 lead. Also several close (unnecessarily close) tight victories. I obviously understand 9>7, but that doesn’t make me any more immune to getting slaughtered by top teams (and also unranked teams like SIU) year after year. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

10 minutes ago, Hawkster said:

There was one good thing about that first long reception, and that's the speed we had to run down that Bison receiver.  That Bison guy looked like someone's grandma going down the field compared to our guys.

Yep, caught him from behind. NDSU scored a couple plays later. The huge pass play was a backbreaker from momentum standpoint. In the building, you could feel NDSU easily carrying the game the rest of the way.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

I think our system is too complex on d. There’s no reason an all conference grad transfer from Cal Poly should take most of the year to get comfortable. I’d much prefer a simple system that guys can easily execute at a high level at full speed than one that makes them constantly think and play slow as a result. I prefer the Wade Philips philosophy.

Well this is obviously true. The defense has always been too unnecessarily complex, particularly for the safeties. 

[geaux_sioux]

1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Yep, caught him from behind. NDSU scored a couple plays later. It was a backbreaker from momentum standpoint. In the building, you could feel NDSU easily carrying the game the rest of the way.  

Fwiw, NDSU got a little tight for a moment. We had mo for a little bit. It was around the time that NDSU fumbled out of bounds and we dropped the pick 6. That was the only time in the game we had a chance but again the defense got their !@#$ pushed in in the end.

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Fwiw, NDSU got a little tight for a moment. We had mo for a little bit. It was around the time that NDSU fumbled out of bounds and we dropped the pick 6. That was the only time in the game we had a chance but again the defense got their !@#$ pushed in in the end.

Not tight enough. UND just wasn’t making plays. For a game in which they had little to lose and everything to gain, UND was the team playing with tight a$$holes.
 

Defense absolutely got pushed around. It was no secret. Everyone knew going into the game you had to stop NDSU running game. Easier said than done. UND absolutely failed (F grade) on run defense the entire game. As such, you get the outcome we got; blowout loss.

[petey23]

2 hours ago, forksandspoons said:

Not saying it would have mattered much, but Tom Miller mentioned some players, including Seth Anderson, were sick this week. Anderson’s replacement got off the ball very slow on the first sack of the game that started the snowball. 

True but he managed to keep his guy to the outside and pushed him past the play and then Tommy decided to sack himself.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 minutes ago, petey23 said:

True but he managed to keep his guy to the outside and pushed him past the play and then Tommy decided to sack himself.

Agreed. Tommy is good (very good) at escaping, but on plays where end rusher gets good contain, Tommy trying to go outside all the time kills the play. Hence all the damn throw aways out of bounds (partially due to coverage as well). 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

On 11/19/2022 at 9:05 AM, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

I see us getting behind early but clawing our way back.
Our offense really puts it together in the 2nd half.
Defense steps up some in second half, but still has a battle.

^^^  pre-game taught

Now looking back.

We were extremely flat starting the game.  Lack of concentration through out, mistakes.
Coaches job to get the team mentally prepared to play the game - really failed here.

No doubt, the talent and coaching goes to the Bison, my hats off the them.
But, we should of made it a good close game for the fans - pride for the program.

We did settle down some, but were still playing with butterflies in our gut.
Many many mistakes. Ball didn't bounce our way, everything adds up to a butt kicking.
Sad to say - This staff just doesn't have it for the big games.

The mods need to stop this annual trolling in the Game Thread during the game. This doesn't happen in other threads I've seen in MVFC.

[petey23]

5 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Agreed. Tommy is good (very good) at escaping, but on plays where end rusher gets good contain, Tommy trying to go outside all the time kills the play. Hence all the damn throw aways out of bounds (partially due to coverage as well). 

He had 4 options on that play.

1. Step up and run for 3-4 yards

2. Step up and throw the ball to a receiver.

3. Step up and throw the ball away.

4. Sack yourself.

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

^^^  pre-game taught

Now looking back.

We were extremely flat starting the game.  Lack of concentration through out, mistakes.
Coaches job to get the team mentally prepared to play the game - really failed here.

No doubt, the talent and coaching goes to the Bison, my hats off the them.
But, we should of made it a good close game for the fans - pride for the program.

We did settle down some, but were still playing with butterflies in our gut.
Many many mistakes. Ball didn't bounce our way, everything adds up to a butt kicking.
Sad to say - This staff just doesn't have it for the big games.

The mods need to stop this annual trolling in the Game Thread during the game. This doesn't happen in other threads I've seen in MVFC.

When has this not been the case away from the Alerus in a big game?

[CMSioux]

Did not take long for UND to get to top tier in MVFC, unfortunately there is a big gap between #3 and #2. We gotta continue to raise the level of our lineman.

[bison73]

7 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Also not sold on this coaching staff and S/C staff to develop the young players into anything exceptional. They do alright, just not at a championship level.
 

Also, I’m now fully convinced UND with this staff will never have the team mentally prepared to consistently win big games. 7-4 is really the ceiling; can’t expect UND to win big road games, or even top 5 home games, which is necessary to be a top 5 team that’s gets home field advantage in playoffs. That needs to be goal; remember importance of being in Alerus all the way through in 2001? Being in the FD for nearly all the playoffs has been important to NDSU’s championship run.
 

Disappointing. Culture change needs to happen, and after 8 years of this staff, it won’t happen without change to some degree. 

I posted this years ago------Bubba will not take you to the promised land.

[iramurphy]

3 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Koshiol should also be an OLB

Maybe. I believe we also have had TE’s that could be DE or OLBs based on their athletic ability. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, bison73 said:

I posted this years ago------Bubba will not take you to the promised land.

Ok…

 
No one is going to listen to anything you have to say about UND. 

Accept this.

But I agree with your statement, unfortunately.

[iramurphy]

3 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

I think our system is too complex on d. There’s no reason an all conference grad transfer from Cal Poly should take most of the year to get comfortable. I’d much prefer a simple system that guys can easily execute at a high level at full speed than one that makes them constantly think and play slow as a result. I prefer the Wade Philips philosophy.

Makes sense. I would say a good rule of thumb is when you struggle, simplify things and focus on fundamentals. I had the opportunity to sit down with Wade after games when he was with the Cowboys. Very intelligent defensive mind and a great guy. 

[geaux_sioux]

23 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Maybe. I believe we also have had TE’s that could be DE or OLBs based on their athletic ability. 

I agree fully on the later. To Koshiol, if he could play safety at all, and i mean at all, he would get a ton of minutes. We're terrible at that spot.