2022-23 University of North Dakota Hockey Season

[crb1]

41 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

I just heard last night from a kid going to play juniors (who’s younger bro just made ntdp) that they don’t push kids going to Nodak. He mentioned his younger bro interested in MN. Obviously hearsay 

Where is the NTDP? Oh yeah that’s right Ann Arbor. Where do a good majority of those players go? Oh yeah Michigan. Not surprising they would be pushing players to the local Michigan schools or B10. Take that with a grain of salt. 

[nodakvindy]

4 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Season    Team    GP    G    A    Pts    PIM  +/- 
2020-21    U.S. National Development Team    20    2    2    4    8    -8  
2021-22    U.S. National Development Team    26    10    6    16    10    5               

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=238292 

That's #12 on that team. 

That screaming "ready for the NCHC" to anyone?

A year in the USHL (for a currently 17 year old) was a prudent request. 

Except that "that team" is the US National Team, not Roseau High or the Lincoln Stars. Context matters. Not saying he is ready, but that's not a compelling argument to say he isn't. 

[siouxweet]

47 minutes ago, tnt said:

Shouldn’t Panzer’s be the first family?  They have actual accomplishments at high levels.  

One moved across the river

[nodakvindy]

50 minutes ago, tnt said:

Shouldn’t Panzer’s be the first family?  They have actual accomplishments at high levels.  

As much as it pains, so do the Potulnys. 

[farce poobah]

One aspect of filling the roster with recruits (or keeping players) that hasn't been mentioned in a while here is the limit of 18 scholarships.  Money talks, or so I heard from Barry Melrose.

This applies - perhaps - and I have no inside info on either - to both the Scott Morrow situation and the Cole Spicer situation.

For Morrow - the top three defensemen get full rides, I'm sure.  Below that, I bet it gets split in some declining percentage (80-60-40% of a full ride as the defensive depth chart gets filled in.   Very possible we offered an 80% ride (because hey Sanderson, Frisch and Kleven are getting full rides - or so I guess), and he / family went to a place that really needed him and offered better.  Or it might be simpler and he wants to play somewhere so that his family (from Connecticut I think) can watch his games.

For Spicer - similar thing.  Splitting 10 scholarships (or so) among 15-17 forwards leaves some great talent on partial scholarships.  Guessing the top six forwards are on full rides, and guessing those are already spoken for with Gaber, Schmaltz, etc, and probably including new recruits.  (Also, given Hain and Senden were on the roster for Covid-shortened season, their schollies may not need to result in a cut somewhere else.)

I do not envy the coaching staff trying to split up the $ among the impressive collection of talent on this roster.  

 

PS another benefit of NIL would be (1) getting more full ride-equivalent dollars into the roster, and (2) competing with Major Juniors.

 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 hour ago, scpa0305 said:

I’ll say it for the third time…I’m next to positive this was a communication thing. When you tell a kid the whole year he’s coming in then telling him he’s not because you placed three older frosh ahead of him and decided to keep two 5th year seniors (one who may be 26 when the seasons over) at the 12th hour. That’s the issue. Had they said all along he should be play juniors I doubt there would have been an issue. 
 

And as I’ve said before, a year of juniors probably helps the kid…but again it’s the timing of everything.

I'd be willing to bet that UND was never telling him he was 100% sure to come in. No need to argue this because none of us really know. With that said, that would be very bad form from UND to do that which is why I don't think it's what happened.

[stoneySIOUX]

1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

I think this is even a stretch that the coaches would go this far to guarantee a kid, particularly someone this young, that they would be coming in a set year. More likely is he thought he was ready, the staff said we think you need another year (like almost all other kids) and he/his family didn't like the answer. 

Yeah, I never thought of it as a guarantee as I think that would be silly and poor form. They very likely tell him, and other recruits, a window when they'd like them to be ready. They disagreed. And here we are. 

[ChetSteadman]

Turning in to Wisc Lite?  Berry trying to go Hastings on the thing with 23 year old freshman?

[cberkas]

1 hour ago, crb1 said:

Where is the NTDP? Oh yeah that’s right Ann Arbor. Where do a good majority of those players go? Oh yeah Michigan. Not surprising they would be pushing players to the local Michigan schools or B10. Take that with a grain of salt. 

It's been in Plymouth since 2015

[ChadR]

Does anyone know what exactly happened between UND and Morrow/Rizzo? No one has ever found out those details. I don't believe we ever dropped either of them....

For Ryder Donovan and Mitchell Mattson, UND told them to both go play a year of juniors, they didn't agree, and both turned out to be bad college players because of it.

Jake Marto was supposed to arrive 2006-07, but was told we want you to play another year of juniors. He was bummed, but instead of complaining, he had a valuable year in the USHL as a 20 year old then stepped into UND ready to play 2007-08, rather that sit in the stands.

For Spicer, obviously it would be hard if your other 22 teammates are all headed to college next year and you are told to go play in the USHL, but you have to think long term. Look at Adam Scheel as a great recent example. Worked out great for him (BCHL).

[Wilbur]

32 minutes ago, ChadR said:

Does anyone know what exactly happened between UND and Morrow/Rizzo? No one has ever found out those details. I don't believe we ever dropped either of them....

For Ryder Donovan and Mitchell Mattson, UND told them to both go play a year of juniors, they didn't agree, and both turned out to be bad college players because of it.

Jake Marto was supposed to arrive 2006-07, but was told we want you to play another year of juniors. He was bummed, but instead of complaining, he had a valuable year in the USHL as a 20 year old then stepped into UND ready to play 2007-08, rather that sit in the stands.

For Spicer, obviously it would be hard if your other 22 teammates are all headed to college next year and you are told to go play in the USHL, but you have to think long term. Look at Adam Scheel as a great recent example. Worked out great for him (BCHL).

A good take on the matter.  I think they should have brought Spicer in, but thats my opinion.

I think another case for your argument would be Judd.  Kid absolutely should have played a year or two in the USHL.  

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

3 hours ago, jdub27 said:

Knowing the uncertainty of everything with players having an extra year and plus the portal, I very highly doubt coaches were speaking any sort of absolutes to players. Particularly ones that are young. I have no doubt that they mentioned certain things as possibilities but it's not like this is their first rodeo. 

That's well put.

[rochsioux]

I suspect that Spicer would be best served to spend next season in the USHL. Not sure why the rush but it’s his decision. Word is that 17 year olds do not always make the correct decisions. They need parents and advisors to help ensure that they are thinking long term. This goes not only for when to start college but also when to turn pro. Make the wrong decision and you can severely impact your long term career.

Not really a big deal for UND, they have plenty of time to find a replacement for the 2023-24 season. If they can’t find a quality recruit I’m sure they can find a pretty good forward in the portal. 

[Rick]

9 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Season    Team    GP    G    A    Pts    PIM  +/- 
2020-21    U.S. National Development Team    20    2    2    4    8    -8  
2021-22    U.S. National Development Team    26    10    6    16    10    5               

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=238292 

That's #12 on that team. 

That screaming "ready for the NCHC" to anyone?

A year in the USHL (for a currently 17 year old) was a prudent request. 

Exactly, this kid is not a 17 y/o Jonathan Toews.  We’ll see where he ends up and what kind of numbers he puts up. I’m guessing it won’t be numbers that jump out at you. He needs another year of juniors before he’ll make any sort of impact in the NCHC.

[brianvf]

Just a hunch that he'd probably stay closer to home...my guess is UMD/SCSU/UMN, maybe MSUM.
A couple of those teams experienced some heavy forward losses and might promise him playing time right away.

[cberkas]

10 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Season    Team    GP    G    A    Pts    PIM  +/- 
2020-21    U.S. National Development Team    20    2    2    4    8    -8  
2021-22    U.S. National Development Team    26    10    6    16    10    5               

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=238292 

That's #12 on that team. 

That screaming "ready for the NCHC" to anyone?

A year in the USHL (for a currently 17 year old) was a prudent request. 

Currently he's 8th 

Cole Spicer - Elite Prospects

16-16-32 on the year

Against college teams 2-5-7 (0-2-2 against D3 teams)

 

 

[scpa0305]

15 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

So, this goes back to the same argument that we've been having with current players, James, Blake, Etc... There are roles. Spicer would be in a suit basically all year unless we are all ok with bottom 6.

Never said he wasn't close to being good enough, but he's not better than 75% of our forwards, IMO. He's also not better than Blake, McLaughlin, and James, from what I've seen. 

He’s playing 3rd line for ntdp right now. He’s a natural center. Ntdp beat us this past year  fair and square. And as I’ve said all along, assuming he isn’t comparable to a James or even McLaughlin isn’t that crazy. He’s burried on a great team. If he was on SC he’d probably be putting up big number. I just don’t like losing out on the skill/talent. He reminds me a bit of Troy Terry tbh. 

[tnt]

9 hours ago, ChetSteadman said:

Turning in to Wisc Lite?  Berry trying to go Hastings on the thing with 23 year old freshman?

No, although I am sure they would like to get a little older and experienced, and that is probably what this is all about.  You already most likely have Blake, McGlaughlin, and James coming in who are 2003 birth dates, so having a 2004 stay another year in Junior hockey doesn't seem that crazy. 

[The Sicatoka]

4 hours ago, cberkas said:

Currently he's 8th 

... in scoring on a seventh place USHL team. 

He is 17. He was asked to play a full USHL season on a non-all-star team to allow for his complete development. He chose a different path. 

[BusinessSiouxt]

9 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

... in scoring on a seventh place USHL team. 

He is 17. He was asked to play a full USHL season on a non-all-star team to allow for his complete development. He chose a different path. 

You’re right, he’s 17, good luck and success to the young man.

[scpa0305]

14 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I mean, we've gone around ad nauseum about why Spicer decommitted. Could he turn out to bite us in the butt and be an All-American? Sure. This year, I highly doubt it. Quote me and write it down and I'll eat every bit of crow around if it happens.

Rizzo feels like a miss by the team. I'm sure Bubs would agree. I'll gladly die on the hill of thinking not having Scott Morrow on our team is a good thing. Many others would disagree. 

Other than those two... who else are we really missing? Miller did what he did and that's a wholly unique situation. I don't think he'll ever play college hockey again.

We can go down the list of decommits and figure out if this is such a massive problem, if you'd like. 

Re Morrow…you are correct…many others would disagree.

[The Sicatoka]

How old will UND verbally committed forwards be on Oct 1, 2022? 
(forward list from here) 

Yrs-Mos-Days
20-04-28 Strinden
19-07-09 McLaughlin
19-02-28 Blake
18-12-20 James
18-06-24 Panzer
18-05-18 Singleton
18-04-19 Spicer
17-09-19 Perron
17-07-27 Slipec
17-05-23 Klee
 

Highlight the post to magically make the names appear.

For as long as I can remember, forwards come in at 19 for the good of everyone. The exceptions are ... exceptional. 

[siouxfan512]

18 hours ago, tnt said:

Didn't Mankato have as much, if not more NCAA tourney experience than Denver?

Didn’t realize that

[I Ranger]

9 hours ago, ChadR said:

Does anyone know what exactly happened between UND and Morrow/Rizzo? No one has ever found out those details. I don't believe we ever dropped either of them....

For Ryder Donovan and Mitchell Mattson, UND told them to both go play a year of juniors, they didn't agree, and both turned out to be bad college players because of it.

Jake Marto was supposed to arrive 2006-07, but was told we want you to play another year of juniors. He was bummed, but instead of complaining, he had a valuable year in the USHL as a 20 year old then stepped into UND ready to play 2007-08, rather that sit in the stands.

For Spicer, obviously it would be hard if your other 22 teammates are all headed to college next year and you are told to go play in the USHL, but you have to think long term. Look at Adam Scheel as a great recent example. Worked out great for him (BCHL).

Not to beat a dead horse as I've mentioned this a few times before on here, but from everything I've heard Rizzo's decommit caught the coaches off guard. They were not expecting it. I've heard multiple things on the Morrow situation so not really sure the exact story but it kind of relates to not fitting into our culture. 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 hour ago, scpa0305 said:

He’s playing 3rd line for ntdp right now. He’s a natural center. Ntdp beat us this past year  fair and square. And as I’ve said all along, assuming he isn’t comparable to a James or even McLaughlin isn’t that crazy. He’s burried on a great team. If he was on SC he’d probably be putting up big number. I just don’t like losing out on the skill/talent. He reminds me a bit of Troy Terry tbh. 

I don't think it's crazy to assume he'd be comparable to those two, at all. He's just 17 and Bubs and Co. have determined he was behind them in the race to get to the ice. I hate losing him, but Spicer made his choice. I'm sure UND did their best to convince him, but he made his call.