New Hospital Facility in GF

[OgieOgilthorpe]

5 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

I've heard FiveSouth is dead in Bismarck. Other than permanently 3 laning Main, what else is planned?

Oh really? I believe that was the revival project that I was referring to. That's too bad

It must've got voted down or something? 

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Oh really? I believe that was the revival project that I was referring to. That's too bad

It must've got voted down or something? 

I think the hotel pulled out, causing the rest to domino. And now with the new mayor, I don't expect much city money to be spent improving downtown anymore either. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

43 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

To 3, I think it’s a mix of circumstance and attitude. GF isn’t business friendly or growth minded. GOBC don’t want any outsiders growing the pie and taking slices. And if you look at a population growth graph it’s pretty clear that it took a very long time to fully recover from the flood. I wonder how Minot would be doing if it wasn’t for the current oil climate out west.

100% 

[OgieOgilthorpe]

25 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

It's easy and feels good to blame the flood because it was a natural disaster and thus no one's fault, but I don't think it is the true cause of the situation. I would suggest it was far more about the reduction of the GF AFB than the flood. If the jobs were there, everything else would have quickly followed.

When it comes right down to it, GF will never be able to compete directly against Fargo for one simple reason: I-94. A city with two interstate highways will always have a huge advantage over a city with only one. Same thing with rail lines. Without the development of oil out west, Fargo would likely be the only ND city with double digit growth. And any growth in GF, BisMan or Minot would have been just rural to urban cannibalization. It is what it is.

Since it's unlikely that we'll find a major new resource under NE ND, to change things, GF would have to bring in a new, major industry that needs a large workforce. And that's a hard sell. If the industry is something that uses local materials, why not chose Fargo which has easier shipping access? If it doesn't use local materials, why choose an area where a workforce is hard to find? Go somewhere where unemployment is higher. If GF tries to leverage its available assets like the AFB or UND's aviation department, why should most aviation companies chose a location with bad weather and difficult access over a location like TX, NV, CA or others? And the industries that do choose to build in GF are likely going to be highly automated and not bring in that many new jobs.

I grew up in Wahp during the glory years of 3M, WCCO and NDSCS at it's height. Since then, 3M shut down, WCCO shrank and automated, and NDSCS scaled way back due to funding changes in Bismarck. The city lost around a quarter of it's jobs and population. In the decade that followed, a couple new plants were built, including a corn processing plant. People thought it could be the start of bringing things back. But the corn plant and the other new ventures were so highly automated that it didn't mean much to the community. What's the addition of 100 jobs when you're trying to recover from losing 2,000?

Stark reality: A single new project in Fargo(Aldevron) is likely to bring in more new jobs to Fargo(>800) than every current new project in GF combined that's beyond the drawing board stage. I just don't know how you compete with that. But you probably should look to UND(Aldevron was started by two NDSU students and was an early tenant of the NDSU R&D Park). 

https://www.inforum.com/business/technology/1355795-Fargo-biotech-firm-announces-major-expansion-to-add-189000-square-feet-employ-over-1000

Very great points all around. I'd only argue the point that Bis/Man and Minot growth is solely due to rural to urban cannibalization though. I'd agree that's a good chunk of it, but the majority of Minot's growth has clearly been from the oil field expansions. Minot has been able to sustain more people after the slowdown than Williston, Dickinson and Watford City have been able to just due to the infrastructure and other job opportunities available. Bis/Man has a very surprising mix of large successful companies in several different types of industries that have been growing at a fast pace which has been attracting a lot of out of staters. Power, tech, construction, government, agriculture and higher education. Look at BCS 10 years ago vs today, it's unbelievable what a small trade school like that has been able to transform into. On top of that, having a fortune 500 HQ and several other companies going through expansion after expansion has led to bringing in a lot of new citizens. 

With that said, I do actually think the vast majority of the slow but steady growth that GF is seeing is probably exactly that. But not Bis or Minot 

[Hammersmith]

5 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Very great points all around. I'd only argue the point that Bis/Man and Minot growth is solely due to rural to urban cannibalization though. I'd agree that's a good chunk of it, but the majority of Minot's growth has clearly been from the oil field expansions. Minot has been able to sustain more people after the slowdown than Williston, Dickinson and Watford City have been able to just due to the infrastructure and other job opportunities available. Bis/Man has a very surprising mix of large successful companies in several different types of industries that have been growing at a fast pace which has been attracting a lot of out of staters. Power, tech, construction, government, agriculture and higher education. Look at BCS 10 years ago vs today, it's unbelievable what a small trade school like that has been able to transform into. On top of that, having a fortune 500 HQ and several other companies going through expansion after expansion has led to bringing in a lot of new citizens. 

With that said, I do actually think the vast majority of the slow but steady growth that GF is seeing is probably exactly that. But not Bis or Minot 

I think you didn't quite get what I was saying. I was creating a hypothetical where the oil boom never happened. In that specific case, I suggested that Fargo would be the only ND city with double digit growth, and most any growth in the other cities would be because of cannibalization. But obviously the oil boom did happen and the lion's share of the growth of BisMan, Minot, Will & Dick is because of it. I could be persuaded that BisMan would have decent growth even without the oil boom, but I think it would be much closer to the growth rate GF currently has.

[SiouxFan100]

Sanford would help UND 

[Shawn-O]

1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

To 3, I think it’s a mix of circumstance and attitude. GF isn’t business friendly or growth minded. GOBC don’t want any outsiders growing the pie and taking slices. And if you look at a population growth graph it’s pretty clear that it took a very long time to fully recover from the flood. I wonder how Minot would be doing if it wasn’t for the current oil climate out west.

Grafton getting the Marvin assembly plant 20 years ago is when this hit home for me.  

[Kab]

6 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

I don't know much about the new Trinity building, but Trinity is generally the worst hospital in North Dakota by a wide margin.

I would have to agree with that

most-people in the NW corner of the state want to bypass Minot  on a transfer and go to Bismarck but for Medicare patients they sometimes don’t have a choice.  Need to go to the nearest facility that can handle them.

the only good thing about Minots  new facility is that it isn’t in the same location as the old one.

as far as Altru is concerned it’s whats inside that counts not the outside.

i happen to like the new look, just not the location.

[geaux_sioux]

2 hours ago, Hammersmith said:

I think you didn't quite get what I was saying. I was creating a hypothetical where the oil boom never happened. In that specific case, I suggested that Fargo would be the only ND city with double digit growth, and most any growth in the other cities would be because of cannibalization. But obviously the oil boom did happen and the lion's share of the growth of BisMan, Minot, Will & Dick is because of it. I could be persuaded that BisMan would have decent growth even without the oil boom, but I think it would be much closer to the growth rate GF currently has.

I don’t compare GF and Fargo in much else other than attitude because of the advantages laid out in your other post. It’s just a different animal. 

[Cratter]

7 hours ago, Hammersmith said:

A single new project in Fargo(Aldevron) is likely to bring in more new jobs to Fargo(>800) than every current new project in GF combined that's beyond the drawing board stage. I just don't know how you compete with that. But you probably should look to UND(Aldevron was started by two NDSU students and was an early tenant of the NDSU R&D Park). 

https://www.inforum.com/business/technology/1355795-Fargo-biotech-firm-announces-major-expansion-to-add-189000-square-feet-employ-over-1000

Good stuff. As a resident an hour north of Fargo, I love to see Fargo grow.

Now its just time for a new Fargodome, I've been pushing for.

[Frozen4sioux]

On 6/7/2019 at 11:23 AM, UNDBIZ said:

I don't know much about the new Trinity building, but Trinity is generally the worst hospital in North Dakota by a wide margin.

This. Basically i think of Altru as a place where a treatment for a hangnail results in a 50/50  chance of being killed by incompetence.....

but I wouldnt trust trinity to do an autopsy, as there's a better than not odds they find a way to kill you again.

..............While cross infecting a family member at the same time.

[Vegas_Sioux]

On 6/7/2019 at 11:19 AM, geaux_sioux said:

Grand Forks has a lot to improve but it’s absolutely not dying. It’s got a nice growth rate. I think people also forget that it was ravaged by a flood 20 years ago. A lot of places never recover from that type of trauma. Hopefully Altru can raise the level of care in their new facility and fix their financial woes. 

Also, not sure how the Minot facility can be viewed as vastly superior. Looks ordinary to me. It also doesn’t appear that they gave a rip about how landscape can improve recovery, in the video it appears Altru did.

With the Minot airport terminal it was at least built to not be at capacity once it opened. 

[SiouxVolley]

51 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

This. Basically i think of Altru as a place where a treatment for a hangnail results in a 50/50  chance of being killed by incompetence.....

but I wouldnt trust trinity to do an autopsy, as there's a better than not odds they find a way to kill you again.

..............While cross infecting a family member at the same time.

Most surgeries and pharmaceuticals have high rates of bad results regardless where one gets them.

Go to a naturopathic place where there find what causes the ailment by its energy using muscle response testing and remove the offending stressor it naturally (chelation, homeopathic, herbs, etc) and then let the body heal itself.  People needing kidney and heart transplants have gotten cured by removing the offending stressor in the body naturally.  There used to be a practice of this kind in Warren, MN, but this method is growing.

Its amazing how many parasites are within people’s bodies and medical science just laughs at that thought.  Seen people that didn’t have an answer from Vanderbilt or Duke and got an immediate treatment that got them well at the naturopath.  Don’t depend on people that have best quesses.

Your own body is the best MD and will give answers according to the circumstances, not MD’s egos.

[Oxbow6]

9 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Most surgeries and pharmaceuticals have high rates of bad results regardless where one gets them.

Go to a naturopathic place where there find what causes the ailment by its energy using muscle response testing and remove the offending stressor it naturally (chelation, homeopathic, herbs, etc) and then let the body heal itself.  People needing kidney and heart transplants have gotten cured by removing the offending stressor in the body naturally.  There used to be a practice of this kind in Warren, MN, but this method is growing.

Its amazing how many parasites are within people’s bodies and medical science just laughs at that thought.  Seen people that didn’t have an answer from Vanderbilt or Duke and got an immediate treatment that got them well at the naturopath.  Don’t depend on people that have best quesses.

Your own body is the best MD and will give answers according to the circumstances, not MD’s egos.

SiouxVolley will also be on QVC later this week trying to sell "medical" leaches, reiki crystals and sharp knives for at home bloodletting..........

[SiouxVolley]

2 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

SiouxVolley will also be on QVC later this week trying to sell "medical" leaches, reiki crystals and sharp knives for at home bloodletting..........

That's esessentially what Drs demand now in Hospitals.  Trying to explain it to an M.D. always end up with one being ridiculed as MDs believe they have the only answer, but just gets one sicker with drugs as nutrition is overlooked.

[Oxbow6]

7 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

That's esessentially what Drs demand now in Hospitals.  Trying to explain it to an M.D. always end up with one being ridiculed as MDs believe they have the only answer, but just gets one sicker with drugs as nutrition is overlooked.

Nutrition is a personal responsibility/accountability issue...........ask any obese T2 diabetic. Rarely do they concede their diabetes is nutrition/diet related.

[Irish]

13 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Most surgeries and pharmaceuticals have high rates of bad results regardless where one gets them.

Go to a naturopathic place where there find what causes the ailment by its energy using muscle response testing and remove the offending stressor it naturally (chelation, homeopathic, herbs, etc) and then let the body heal itself.  People needing kidney and heart transplants have gotten cured by removing the offending stressor in the body naturally.  There used to be a practice of this kind in Warren, MN, but this method is growing.

Its amazing how many parasites are within people’s bodies and medical science just laughs at that thought.  Seen people that didn’t have an answer from Vanderbilt or Duke and got an immediate treatment that got them well at the naturopath.  Don’t depend on people that have best quesses.

Your own body is the best MD and will give answers according to the circumstances, not MD’s egos.

Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? ......... Medicine

[Cratter]

On 6/7/2019 at 11:27 PM, Cratter said:

I love to see Fargo grow.

Now its just time for a new Fargodome, I've been pushing for.

The larger Fargo is and the more options for stuff to do. The higher the quality of life for Grand Forks residents. Especially with the foregone conclusion of the future of cars. 

For example, what was going on this week in Fargo? Ribfest outside the Fargodome. Soon you'll be able to pour yourself and your wife some red wine. Hop in the car. Set the destination to Fargo. Facetime the kids. Have some appetizers. And arrive at the Dome. Have a few more cocktails there, eat some ribs, and listen to some live music under the sun. Summon the car to pick you up, tap the "home button" and take a nap on the way back.

[nd1sufan]

15 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

SiouxVolley will also be on QVC later this week trying to sell "medical" leaches, reiki crystals and sharp knives for at home bloodletting..........

He will also be peddling the very rare and extremely accurate “SiouxVolley crystal ball”. The predictions are guaranteed to come true, even if nobody alive today will be around to see it. 

[SiouxVolley]

Sanford Health is merging with a slightly smaller Iowa based healthcare company:  UnityPoint Health.

https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2019/06/28/sanford-health-announces-massive-merger-plan-unitypoint-health-iowa-south-dakota/1588506001/

Sanford had a goal to buy Twin Cities hospitals, but that apparently feel through.

[iramurphy]

On 6/8/2019 at 10:06 PM, SiouxVolley said:

Most surgeries and pharmaceuticals have high rates of bad results regardless where one gets them.

Go to a naturopathic place where there find what causes the ailment by its energy using muscle response testing and remove the offending stressor it naturally (chelation, homeopathic, herbs, etc) and then let the body heal itself.  People needing kidney and heart transplants have gotten cured by removing the offending stressor in the body naturally.  There used to be a practice of this kind in Warren, MN, but this method is growing.

Its amazing how many parasites are within people’s bodies and medical science just laughs at that thought.  Seen people that didn’t have an answer from Vanderbilt or Duke and got an immediate treatment that got them well at the naturopath.  Don’t depend on people that have best quesses.

Your own body is the best MD and will give answers according to the circumstances, not MD’s egos.

This is such nonsense and without factual evidence. Modern medicine includes close attention to the importance of daily exercise, proper sleep, dental care and of course nutrition. Most surgeries do not have bad results. What is your evidence. Surgeries are reviewed at hospitals and surgery centers across the entire country. Those statistics are available to the public. Peer review is done is hospitals/surgeries/clinics across the country. Deaths, surgical errors, medication errors, falls, injuries, complaints etc are all reviewed. Mistakes are dealt with and policy changes and corrective action plans put in place. Complaints to the State Board of Medical Examiners are all addressed, even those without evidence or cause. All pharmaceutical drugs have potential side effects and the providers and patients must weigh risks vs benefits before the patient makes an informed decision. Every Herbal product, naturopathic supplement also has potential risks and side effects including death, cancer risks, kidney and liver damage. The issue most educated and intelligent people raise with your claims is what evidence do you have to support your claims?  Very few people have parasites in their bodies. Who told you this nonsense and where is your evidence?  Most of the stool culture results I have seen are negative for parasites. The human body is full of bacteria which when overgrown or removed can cause a multitude of problems. The people who go to a few weekend workshops then pass themselves off as Naturopathic “doctors” should have the same regulation, oversights, education requirements, and reviews medical doctors/chiropractors/dentists/physical and occupational therapists undergo. Blood letting or when done by professionals phlebotomy is an important tool in modern medicine for a few select problems, but cutting someone’s skin with a scalpel then putting blood in a test tube and holding it up to the light, then making a diagnosis is nothing short of crazy and dangerous. Time and proper care, diet, and lifestyle changes certainly can improve heart failure, early kidney failure and diabetes. It is very rare that end stage heart failure or renal failure will ever save a patient from the need of a transplant or death. To refer to isolated cases where patients supposedly needed a heart or kidney transplant without the audience knowing what the medical records and studies showed is not evidence. The majority of licensed physicians and other providers include the natural, dietary and appropriate homeopathic approach to the patient and your ridiculous comments are without evidence or merit. Too many times have I dealt with patients given a diagnosis by one of these so called naturopathic folks that I can easily prove with a simple test is false. What I can’t do is get them a refund for the hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars wasted on unnecessary supplements or vitamins that did no more than give the patient expensive poop. Difficult patients that traditional providers struggle to help often have pain, fatigue, weight, psychological problems etc. that are difficult to find a cause or cure for. There are also a multitude of patients that we may not know at first what the issues are. Your insulting and inaccurate comments focus on those we struggle with. We also can be wrong or make mistakes. If an alternative provider can help someone that traditional providers can’t, I’m all for it. It happens. They should be able to do so under the microscope of state boards and reviews like the rest of us and be subject to reprimand for make false or misleading statements. 

[SiouxVolley]

3 hours ago, iramurphy said:

This is such nonsense and without factual evidence. Modern medicine includes close attention to the importance of daily exercise, proper sleep, dental care and of course nutrition. Most surgeries do not have bad results. What is your evidence. Surgeries are reviewed at hospitals and surgery centers across the entire country. Those statistics are available to the public. Peer review is done is hospitals/surgeries/clinics across the country. Deaths, surgical errors, medication errors, falls, injuries, complaints etc are all reviewed. Mistakes are dealt with and policy changes and corrective action plans put in place. Complaints to the State Board of Medical Examiners are all addressed, even those without evidence or cause. All pharmaceutical drugs have potential side effects and the providers and patients must weigh risks vs benefits before the patient makes an informed decision. Every Herbal product, naturopathic supplement also has potential risks and side effects including death, cancer risks, kidney and liver damage. The issue most educated and intelligent people raise with your claims is what evidence do you have to support your claims?  Very few people have parasites in their bodies. Who told you this nonsense and where is your evidence?  Most of the stool culture results I have seen are negative for parasites. The human body is full of bacteria which when overgrown or removed can cause a multitude of problems. The people who go to a few weekend workshops then pass themselves off as Naturopathic “doctors” should have the same regulation, oversights, education requirements, and reviews medical doctors/chiropractors/dentists/physical and occupational therapists undergo. Blood letting or when done by professionals phlebotomy is an important tool in modern medicine for a few select problems, but cutting someone’s skin with a scalpel then putting blood in a test tube and holding it up to the light, then making a diagnosis is nothing short of crazy and dangerous. Time and proper care, diet, and lifestyle changes certainly can improve heart failure, early kidney failure and diabetes. It is very rare that end stage heart failure or renal failure will ever save a patient from the need of a transplant or death. To refer to isolated cases where patients supposedly needed a heart or kidney transplant without the audience knowing what the medical records and studies showed is not evidence. The majority of licensed physicians and other providers include the natural, dietary and appropriate homeopathic approach to the patient and your ridiculous comments are without evidence or merit. Too many times have I dealt with patients given a diagnosis by one of these so called naturopathic folks that I can easily prove with a simple test is false. What I can’t do is get them a refund for the hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars wasted on unnecessary supplements or vitamins that did no more than give the patient expensive poop. Difficult patients that traditional providers struggle to help often have pain, fatigue, weight, psychological problems etc. that are difficult to find a cause or cure for. There are also a multitude of patients that we may not know at first what the issues are. Your insulting and inaccurate comments focus on those we struggle with. We also can be wrong or make mistakes. If an alternative provider can help someone that traditional providers can’t, I’m all for it. It happens. They should be able to do so under the microscope of state boards and reviews like the rest of us and be subject to reprimand for make false or misleading statements. 

So  the huge fraction of emergency room visits due to pharmaceutical side effects is perfectly ok by you?

The AMA is so beholden and bought by the pharmaceutical industry and the main food processors to make Americans take artificial stuff that makes them deathly ill.  That’s the reason the places like Whole Foods and other natural groceries are seeing such growth.

Hippocrates said “Let thy food be you medicine and medicine be your food”.  You must disagree totally on that.

Old time MDs used to have a bag with herbs and other stuff on their house visits.  Guess they were just quacks.

Just in a grocery store and the soft drinks and other junk food were loaded up on customer carts would make anyone sick or hyperactive.

Most of what you have with written is hogwash but protects corporate interests and the medical profession.

[iramurphy]

7 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

So  the huge fraction of emergency room visits due to pharmaceutical side effects is perfectly ok by you.

The AMA is so beholden and bought by the pharmaceutical industry and the main food processors to make Americans take artificial stuff that makes them deathly ill.  That’s the reason the places like Whole Foods and other natural groceries are seeing such growth.

Hippocrates said “Let thy food be you medicine and medicine be your food”.  You must disagree totally on that.

Just in a grocery store and the soft drinks loaded up on he customer carts would make anyone sick or hyperactive.

Most of what you have with written is hogwash.

How would you know what fraction of ER visits is due to pharmaceutical side effects?  I was chief of emergency services in one hospital, medical director of another and did ER work for many years. That was not true in my experience. What is your experience?  I doubt you have ER experience so what is your reference. I’m not a member of the AMA so I don’t know their relationship with pharmaceutical companies. Many ER visits aren’t emergencies. We advise people against eating processed foods regardless of where you get your groceries.Whole foods have organic foods. All grocery stores have natural foods and most now have an organic section. The growing of foods organically is thought to be better for the environment.  Last time I checked we didn’t have evidence that organic foods we more nutritious than non-organic foods. You make unsubstantiated statements which are easy to prove false. What is your training and experience you base this on? You basically support my arguments concerning outlandish claims and statements made by people with inadequate training or experience to have credibility. To many who prey on those poor suffering souls desperate for help who will pay almost anything for worthless supplements and unproven/untested snake oil remedies. You might want to research how many billions Americans spend on these untested remedies. It is almost as big of a problem as our over priced pharmaceutical drugs, but at least our prescriptions have to undergo testing and scrutiny and have some evidence they do what they claim they do. 

[SiouxVolley]

17 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

How would you know what fraction of ER visits is due to pharmaceutical side effects?  I was chief of emergency services in one hospital, medical director of another and did ER work for many years. That was not true in my experience. What is your experience?  I doubt you have ER experience so what is your reference. I’m not a member of the AMA so I don’t know their relationship with pharmaceutical companies. Many ER visits aren’t emergencies. We advise people against eating processed foods regardless of where you get your groceries.Whole foods have organic foods. All grocery stores have natural foods and most now have an organic section. The growing of foods organically is thought to be better for the environment.  Last time I checked we didn’t have evidence that organic foods we more nutritious than non-organic foods. You make unsubstantiated statements which are easy to prove false. What is your training and experience you base this on? You basically support my arguments concerning outlandish claims and statements made by people with inadequate training or experience to have credibility. To many who prey on those poor suffering souls desperate for help who will pay almost anything for worthless supplements and unproven/untested snake oil remedies. You might want to research how many billions Americans spend on these untested remedies. It is almost as big of a problem as our over priced pharmaceutical drugs, but at least our prescriptions have to undergo testing and scrutiny and have some evidence they do what they claim they do. 

https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2016/11/22/side-effects-emergency-room/

Pharmaceutical side effects are getting to be almost a majority of ER visits now.  In favor of genetic medicines to correct those issues, but diabetes, cardio, kidney, and hypertension can have natural based curses that most MDs reject because they don’t want to be sued because the patient won’t follow a strict routine.

My evidence is life experience.  Many doctors reject Jesus too because there isn’t enough evidence.

[SiouxFan100]

I want a hospital that can contribute millions of dollars into UND