darell1976 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 You said you aren't looking forward to a .500 record. I pointed out with what they were losing, I think something around that is a likely scenario. Where is the excuse part in that? Just want to point out UND is 10-10 on the road the last two years in Big Sky play. That's the third most wins in that time frame behind Montana and Weber. Again to my point, something will give between conference and OOC play. Too big of a disconnect. Also want to point out that I'm in no way endorsing that Jones is the answer. I also don't have my torches and pitchforks lined up ready to go. Conference record: 12-8 ( 4-6 road) 2013-14 last team in the tournament 10-10 (+2) No 20 win teams 12-8 (6-4 road) 2012-13 last team in the tournament 8-12 (+4) (WSU 30-7, UM 25-7) Don't you think with a down conference that UND could have either hosted the conference tournament, made the NCAA Tournament, or at least win 20 games with a talented senior class? Instead of going from 16-17 to a ONE game improvement (17-17). Jones is not the answer for this team, and its time for him to go. I would think Faison knows when to drop the hammer on Jones' UND career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 What excuses am I using? That I think there is blame that can be placed on the players and not just the coach? That the team had an abnormally large amount of injuries to key players the last 3 years? That's fine if you only want to use regular season OOC games (which I stated the results were not acceptable). But previous arguments were always that they could only win at home. I'm pointing out which games are more important, and its not the ones you are focusing on. I don't know what the team was thinking or feeling at the SUU game or any of the other games. Where is your insight coming from on whether they were "pumped up" or not? How many of the games you mentioned did you actually watch to see how pumped up they were? And fourth/fifth year seniors shouldn't need to be pumped up. Glad you have already decided this team will be getting blown out at home before the roster for next season is even set. Guess it will save you from venturing into any of the other threads besides this one. Blah, blah, blah.....we heard the same song and dance from the Mussman apologists and look where that got us. This is Jones' program, top to bottom, backwards, forwards and sideways. He has been here long enough to be held accountable for the results or lack thereof. In the military, if an army loses battle after battle, do we get rid of all the soldiers and keep the commander or do we sack the general? I think you know the answer to that question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Jones is not the answer for this team, and its time for him to go. I would think Faison knows when to drop the hammer on Jones' UND career. So you think Jones should be fired after this past season? If so, I would think you don't understand what or how Faison thinks. Blah, blah, blah.....we heard the same song and dance from the Mussman apologists and look where that got us. This is Jones' program, top to bottom, backwards, forwards and sideways. He has been here long enough to be held accountable for the results or lack thereof. In the military, if an army loses battle after battle, do we get rid of all the soldiers and keep the commander or do we sack the general? I think you know the answer to that question. That's a terrible analogy. And now you want Jones fired? Just yesterday you said he should have until the end of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 That's a terrible analogy. And now you want Jones fired? Just yesterday you said he should have until the end of his contract. Yes, he should have until the end of his current contract. But if we are still muddling around .500 and fighting hard to get into the CIT on an annual basis, then it will be time for a change, even if those average records are good enough for 2nd or 3rd in the Big Sky. But I have a strong suspicion that some people on here will want him to stick around even if there is no improvement. Those are the people I am getting tired of. And what was wrong with my analogy? It's not perfect, but it illustrates the principle that the CEO/General/Head Coach/General Manager is the boss, is in charge and is responsible for getting results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooToo Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 So you think Jones should be fired after this past season? If so, I would think you don't understand what or how Faison thinks. That's a terrible analogy. And now you want Jones fired? Just yesterday you said he should have until the end of his contract. Thanks for being the voice of reason on this thread, albeit a lonely one. No basketball genius here, but I find it laughable the number of experts on this site who "guarantee" Jones can never win the big one after just two years of conference play -- with second-place and third-place finishes to show for it -- and "know" an assistant's departure reflects impending staff dismissal instead of the lure of a $30,000 pay raise. Like the previous football staff, basketball has been handicapped by limited resources to hire and retain quality/experienced assistants in the D-1 era. This team's inconsistency was troubling over the last couple of seasons, but as you noted, the next couple of years should provide better evidence whether or not the problem is coaching. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'll answer my own question regarding what would be the minimum acceptable record for 2014-15--I believe the minimum number of wins is around 12. I base that on the belief that Jones can probably afford to take a small step back from the 16-17 and 17-17 records of the past two years (considering the large turnover of the roster), but he probably doesn't have sufficient equity to survive a big step back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 What has he done at UND to deserve to be paid according to the market? He's probably a fantastic guy, I've never met him. Possibly a great coach. However, I haven't seen results on the court to warrant a raise to anyone on our men's basketball staff that tells me we should just start handing out raises because "that's the market". I think it is safe to say that given UND constraints, the body of work is respected within coaching community. Some folks might look at 2nd place finish in Big Sky reg season and conference tournament as a pretty good accomplishment. Especially considering your chief rival in recruiting had such a jump start in D1 transition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 How much longer can we put up with Jones? I know the team is young but these losses are getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 You just love bringing this !@#$ up don't you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 The Gobc has it on our radar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 How much longer can we put up with Jones? I know the team is young but these losses are getting old. What are your expectations of UND basketball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux24/7 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 What are your expectations of UND basketball? He should be on the hot seat. Can't win games away from home. Can't maintain halftime leads. That's all on coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 What are your expectations of UND basketball? 20+ win seasons and annual conference titles and trips to the dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 20+ win seasons and annual conference titles and trips to the dance. The first goal should be win the Big Sky, if I'm not mistaken didn't he make it to the title game in the second year in the Big Sky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 What are your expectations of UND basketball? 20+ win seasons, annual conference titles, trips to the dance, and a packed Betty Engelstad Sioux Center. Tonight was an ugly loss to a terrible program. The first goal should be win the Big Sky, if I'm not mistaken didn't he make it to the title game in the second year in the Big Sky? That should be a goal. Another goal should be to not be terrible against non-Big Sky teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Darrell was just waiting for UND to lose to a "lesser team." Hakstol would/should have been fired long ago then. No coach has taken as long as UND has to win no championships than the current men's hockey coach. UND men's basketball "almost" has made it to the NCAA "dance." Which no UND men's basketball coach has ever been close to achieving before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 Darrell was just waiting for UND to lose to a "lesser team." Hakstol would/should have been fired long ago then. No coach has taken as long as UND has to win no championships than the current men's hockey coach. UND men's basketball "almost" has made it to the NCAA "dance." Which no UND men's basketball coach has ever been close to achieving before! With Jones you don't have to wait to lose. He is not a good coach. Brewster took UND to the dance in his second year why isn't it time for a change? Or are you still pissed they canned Muss. Last I heard almost counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 What are your expectations of UND basketball? To win on the road against in OOC (not tournament play) games still winless since February 2012, have a 20 win season, beat marquee teams (not a Duke or Kansas), and make the dance. If Brewster can do it in 2 seasons, Jones should be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopster Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I hear that Coach K and John Calipari as well as tons of others are chomping at the bit to take over the UND basketball program . They all want to be the lowest paid D1 Head coach in the Country with the lowest paid assistant coaches not to mention having the pleasure of residing in one of the coldest cities in one of the lowest D1 talent producing states in the USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 I hear that Coach K and John Calipari as well as tons of others are chomping at the bit to take over the UND basketball program . They all want to be the lowest paid D1 Head coach in the Country with the lowest paid assistant coaches not to mention having the pleasure of residing in one of the coldest cities in one of the lowest D1 talent producing states in the USA Hopefully Faison will pump some money in the program like he did with football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I hear that Coach K and John Calipari as well as tons of others are chomping at the bit to take over the UND basketball program . They all want to be the lowest paid D1 Head coach in the Country with the lowest paid assistant coaches not to mention having the pleasure of residing in one of the coldest cities in one of the lowest D1 talent producing states in the USA Do you think giving the current staff a raise would produce better results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 With Jones you don't have to wait to lose. He is not a good coach. Brewster took UND to the dance in his second year why isn't it time for a change? Or are you still pissed they canned Muss. Last I heard almost counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. There were calls for Brewster's head after his first season - good thing the fans don't make the coaching decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Do you think giving the current staff a raise would produce better results? Agreed that we are not currently in a basketball hotbed - however, here's my frustration with Jones: - The group that just graduated was probably the most talented team we have ever had. Many started for 4 years. However, during their careers, Jones showed absolutely no ability to either coach them on some of the most basic basketball skills such as boxing out or passing. They were more than content to go 1 on 3 and play playground basketball. In addition, they turtled every time they went on the road. He could not add any significant talent to the group. Now they are gone and after all this time it seems like we are starting from scratch. I have not seen through his tenure a solid foundation that we can build on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feff Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 The problem this season is that the team looks good in the first half and looks terrible in the second. The second half is about coaching adjustments. I haven't seen much to indicate Jones can do that so far this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Agreed that we are not currently in a basketball hotbed - however, here's my frustration with Jones: - The group that just graduated was probably the most talented team we have ever had. Many started for 4 years. However, during their careers, Jones showed absolutely no ability to either coach them on some of the most basic basketball skills such as boxing out or passing. They were more than content to go 1 on 3 and play playground basketball. In addition, they turtled every time they went on the road. He could not add any significant talent to the group. Now they are gone and after all this time it seems like we are starting from scratch. I have not seen through his tenure a solid foundation that we can build on. Why is it assumed that this group was so talented? Drives me nuts. Just because they were all seniors doesn't make them talented. They were recruited when no one was going to come here. Nobody else was recruiting them. You can make the opposite argument that jones got the most out of a group of kids that no other D1 programs recruited. Fast forward to today and jones IS getting kids that have other D1 offers. Progress, real progress in my opinion. Secondly, regarding money. It isn't just salaries that are an issue. 1) facilities are D2 quality. 2) money game requirements. Meanwhile, their neighbors get 10 million put into a locker room. Our players still use the same type of cold/hot tub that Phil Jackson used. I wouldn't be shocked if their weight room had one of those vibrating belt machines that Jack Lalanne used to hawk in the 60's. I guess you can flip it around when talking to a recruit by stating, "not only did Phil Jackson play here, you will be getting taped on the very same table he used". Embarrassing. Everyone's frustration should be pointed directly at AD and not Coach Jones. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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