Non-UND FCS Thread

[Rory]

Just now, nd1sufan said:

But that is only because all of the other QB's coming out this year suck, so in comparison, Wentz looks good. I'm sure if you ask Cratter or Darrell, if Studsrud was coming out this year he would be the Belle of the Ball too.  If this was a good year for QB's, Wentz wouldn't have the size, intelligence, and leadership qualities NFL teams are looking for nd his arm wouldn't be a strong or accurate. 

Believe it or not, NFL scouts know what they are looking for in a QB. There have actually been down years for QB's when none have been selected in the 1st round and other years when the first QB has gone in the latter half of the 1st round.  

I think I will go with what the guys who cover the NFL for a living rather than a couple of haters. Wentz is going to have a nice NFL career.

[F'n Hawks]

3 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

But that is only because all of the other QB's coming out this year suck, so in comparison, Wentz looks good. I'm sure if you ask Cratter or Darrell, if Studsrud was coming out this year he would be the Belle of the Ball too.  If this was a good year for QB's, Wentz wouldn't have the size, intelligence, and leadership qualities NFL teams are looking for nd his arm wouldn't be a strong or accurate. 

Believe it or not, NFL scouts know what they are looking for in a QB. There have actually been down years for QB's when none have been selected in the 1st round and other years when the first QB has gone in the latter half of the 1st round.  

So u r comparing wentz and studsrud

[geaux_sioux]

4 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

But that is only because all of the other QB's coming out this year suck, so in comparison, Wentz looks good. I'm sure if you ask Cratter or Darrell, if Studsrud was coming out this year he would be the Belle of the Ball too.  If this was a good year for QB's, Wentz wouldn't have the size, intelligence, and leadership qualities NFL teams are looking for nd his arm wouldn't be a strong or accurate. 

Believe it or not, NFL scouts know what they are looking for in a QB. There have actually been down years for QB's when none have been selected in the 1st round and other years when the first QB has gone in the latter half of the 1st round.  

I guess this makes you Cratters uncle? And my brother? 

[UND-FB-FAN]

No one can be sure how Wentz will perform in the NFL. Most admit to the notion that scouting is an inexact science. With that said, I know Wentz was a very good college QB and he will be drafted in the first round. Be careful not to criticize yourself into a corner with this one, fellas. 

[dakotadan]

9 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

You really need to stop posting about him of you can't do it without bias.

He did what he was asked to do. He was essentially 9-10. He showed his wheels. The senior bowl is more about the practices and he completely killed it. The game at the senior bowl is not for the QBs, they only get one quarter, everyone else gets the whole game.

Wentz is a ND kid and we wanted him bad. He's got a great future and we should all be proud of him regardless of how much pub he's getting for NDSU. Good for him. I hope he goes #1 overall and in an all pro.

Saying that he looked OK/average in this game isn't a dig or insult at him.  When FU fans and even yourself say that he did what he was asked to do in the game that doesn't scream that he lit everyone up and stood out like crazy. It just says that he looked like most other QBs who play in this scrimmage game before going on to spend some time in the NFL. 

You said yourself that the game is more about the scouts getting to watch the practices. From all accounts he has what it takes to spend some time on an NFL roster and play some on Sundays. 

But just because he is from North Dakota doesn't mean we need to all blindly say we have never seen anyone play as amazingly as he did in this game.

IMHO when people ask how he played and you reply "He did what he was asked to do," that pretty much says he played "average" in relationship to all the other college QBs who've played in this game and went on to the NFL.

He did what he was asked to do. Nothing more, nothing less. Wouldn't most logical people call that average? 

 

[Rory]

Think of the last four non-FBS quarterbacks selected in the first round of the NFL Draft: Joe Flacco (2008), Steve McNair (1995), Ken O’Brien (1983, played against NDSU for UC Davis at Dacotah Field) and Phil Simms (1979). Three of those four QB’s played in the Super Bowl.

[Siouxphan27]

8 minutes ago, Rory said:

Think of the last four non-FBS quarterbacks selected in the first round of the NFL Draft: Joe Flacco (2008), Steve McNair (1995), Ken O’Brien (1983, played against NDSU for UC Davis at Dacotah Field) and Phil Simms (1979). Three of those four QB’s played in the Super Bowl.

You heard it here first folks;  there's a 75% chance Carson Wentz will be playing in the Super Bowl. 

 

[geaux_sioux]

19 minutes ago, dakotadan said:

Saying that he looked OK/average in this game isn't a dig or insult at him.  When FU fans and even yourself say that he did what he was asked to do in the game that doesn't scream that he lit everyone up and stood out like crazy. It just says that he looked like most other QBs who play in this scrimmage game before going on to spend some time in the NFL. 

You said yourself that the game is more about the scouts getting to watch the practices. From all accounts he has what it takes to spend some time on an NFL roster and play some on Sundays. 

But just because he is from North Dakota doesn't mean we need to all blindly say we have never seen anyone play as amazingly as he did in this game.

IMHO when people ask how he played and you reply "He did what he was asked to do," that pretty much says he played "average" in relationship to all the other college QBs who've played in this game and went on to the NFL.

He did what he was asked to do. Nothing more, nothing less. Wouldn't most logical people call that average? 

 

He's being held to a different standard than the other guys there so I don't think average would suffice. He did a few things that were elite in the game. His throw across the field is something maybe 1% of QBs can do. He also shook the best pass rusher at the senior bowl and ran for a gain. Those two plays were all scouts needed to see in the game. They showed that he has elite skills even though his wrist is still  regaining its strength.

[Bison06]

6/10 for 50 yards with 2 blatant drops and another miscommunication with a receiver on a 4th down.(only the coaches and players know who botched the assignment). Made an "NFL arm" throw, across the field and showed elusiveness in the pocket. As I watched the game on dvr last night I actually thought he looked better than I expected him to.

many disadvantages for Carson in a game like that.

1.It's an all star game, notorious for players not being on the same page. There isn't a position on the field that requires more cohesiveness amongst the team to appear to be playing well yourself.

2. First experience with that level of talent. A learning curve could have been expected even if he ends up being a top 10 pick.

3. Limited reps in the game. Even in a normal game it can take players time to settle into a rhythm.

All things considered, IMO Carson had a great game and showed exactly what he needed to show to make millions of dollars in the spring. 

[Sioux>Bison]

If I was a scout for a team that didn't need a QB I would talk him up too so that another team wastes their first round pick. I think he will be decimated by a pro secondary unless he learns under a veteran . 

This QB class is in fact the weakest in a decade because there is no way he is the best college QB in the country.

[iluvdebbies]

1 minute ago, Sioux>Bison said:

If I was a scout for a team that didn't need a QB I would talk him up too so that another team wastes their first round pick. I think he will be decimated by a pro secondary unless he learns under a veteran . 

This QB class is in fact the weakest in a decade because there is no way he is the best college QB in the country.

There is a huge difference between best college QB and best NFL QB prospect.

[geaux_sioux]

4 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

If I was a scout for a team that didn't need a QB I would talk him up too so that another team wastes their first round pick. I think he will be decimated by a pro secondary unless he learns under a veteran . 

This QB class is in fact the weakest in a decade because there is no way he is the best college QB in the country.

So much butt hurt around here. This is no way the weakest qb class in a decade. 

[F'n Hawks]

7 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

So much butt hurt around here. This is no way the weakest qb class in a decade. 

U gonna be ok?

[Bison06]

29 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

If I was a scout for a team that didn't need a QB I would talk him up too so that another team wastes their first round pick. I think he will be decimated by a pro secondary unless he learns under a veteran . 

This QB class is in fact the weakest in a decade because there is no way he is the best college QB in the country.

What are Carson's weaknesses that you feel will have him "decimated" at the next level?

[Cratter]

3 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Well I guess I'm going to have to put you in a time out for your ignorance. During that time out you can read what Mayock and other people who evaluate football players for a living thought of Wentz not only in the one quarter of an all star game but in the three practices. 

Alright, but the question I was answering only asked about the game not about the practices.

[geaux_sioux]

Just last year alone had two first rounders in Mariota and Winston. #1 and #2. After that is wasn't until the 3rd round for the next qb. Only 7 total abs drafted. This years class is already deeper than that. Wentz would be thought of in the league of Mariota and Winston had he played FBS.

2014 had 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders. It would have been a toss up between Wentz and Bortels. 14 total drafted qbs.

2013 had 1 first rounder (EJ Manuel) and 1 second rounder (Geno Smith). 11 total drafted and Smith is by far the best. Wentz would have gone very high in this one.

2012 finally a great QB class, 4 first rounders with Luck RGIII Weden and Tannehill. Foles and Wilson went in the 3rd. Cousins in the 4th. Wentz would have been behind Luck and RGIII but I'm not certain he would have been behind the other two in the first round. Great depth in this class though.

2011 a lot of teams missed badly on QBs in this class. 4 first rounders in Newton Locker Gabert and Christian Freaking Ponder. 2 second rounders in Kap and Dalton. 6th round gem in Tyrod Taylor. Newton is a monster and would go #1 in almost any draft without Elway in it. The other first rounders were trash. I think Wentz would've been the second QB here.

2010 I doubt we'll find a worse class than this one. It's pure trash. 2 first rounders Bradford and Tebow. Clausen in the second. 14 qbs taken. Wentz may have gone ahead of Bradford because he has more tools and played a pro style offense. This class really took sucking to a new depth.

2009 3 first rounders Stafford Sanchez and Freeman. We all know how bad Freeman and Sanchez turned out. I'm not sure Wentz could have overcome the USC factor with Sanchez though. After Stafford this class has nothing. Biggest play made by anyone not named Stafford was the butt fumble. 12 total qbs drafted, 11 of them trash.

2008 2 first rounders, Ryan and Flacco, both very good NFL qbs. 2 second rounders, Brohm and Henne, yawn. 13 qbs, two franchise types, eleven forgettable ones. This one would have been interesting to see where Wentz would have gone in the first round.

2007 this one is a doozie, 2 first rounders in Russel and Quinn. Second rounders Kolb Beck and Stanton. Kolb was by far the best here. Russel set the standard for a bust. I like Wentz's chances in this draft after Russel. 11 drafted, basically 0 impact.

2006 3 first rounders in Young Leinart and Cutler. Clemens and good ol Tevarus Jackson in the second. 11 drafted overall. Wentz should have been drafted ahead of Leinart in this one but you never know how that would have worked out with the USC factor. Cutler is the bell cow in this class. He's had a decent career.

It's a toss up between 2010 and 2007 for worst. 2012 seems the best by far. This class feels like it will be somewhere in the middle. Obviously we won't know actually until they are drafted and their careers pan out a little bit. 

[geaux_sioux]

14 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

What are Carson's weaknesses that you feel will have him "decimated" at the next level?

Southern speed.

[homer]

1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

So much butt hurt around here. This is no way the weakest qb class in a decade. 

People sharing am their opinion that doesn't agree with yours is not butt hurt.  

[geaux_sioux]

6 minutes ago, homer said:

People sharing am their opinion that doesn't agree with yours is not butt hurt.  

There is a deep butt hurt undertones to some of these opinions. It's clear as day. The guy is from Bismarck we should be happy that he could be the top pick in the draft. We should also be happy that he can't throw for any more TDs on our defense. 

[fightingsioux4life]

5 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

There is a deep butt hurt undertones to some of these opinions. It's clear as day. The guy is from Bismarck we should be happy that he could be the top pick in the draft. We should also be happy that he can't throw for any more TDs on our defense. 

Just like all those Bison rubes who liked to make snide comments about Jimmy Kleinsasser back during his assent as a top NFL prospect and subsequent career with the Vikings. Turnabout is fair play. I have nothing against Wentz or anyone else from FU that makes it at the next level (CFL or NFL), but I am also not on the edge of my seat with anticipation as to where they end up or how high they are drafted. If that's "butt hurt", then so be it. One good turn deserves another.

[Bison06]

7 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Just like all those Bison rubes who liked to make snide comments about Jimmy Kleinsasser back during his assent as a top NFL prospect and subsequent career with the Vikings. Turnabout is fair play. I have nothing against Wentz or anyone else from FU that makes it at the next level (CFL or NFL), but I am also not on the edge of my seat with anticipation as to where they end up or how high they are drafted. If that's "butt hurt", then so be it. One good turn deserves another.

Many on this board deride bison fans for acting a certain way towards anything UND related. I've even heard directly and indirectly on this board that UND fans are somehow above the fray in regards to these types of discussions. Isn't it interesting that you are eluding to the fact that you aren't objectively assessing wentz, but rather saying "turnabout is fair play". It seems when the shoe is on the other foot it's ok to be specifically bias toward ndsu, but it wasn't ok when ndsu fans were doing it? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

[geaux_sioux]

9 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Just like all those Bison rubes who liked to make snide comments about Jimmy Kleinsasser back during his assent as a top NFL prospect and subsequent career with the Vikings. Turnabout is fair play. I have nothing against Wentz or anyone else from FU that makes it at the next level (CFL or NFL), but I am also not on the edge of my seat with anticipation as to where they end up or how high they are drafted. If that's "butt hurt", then so be it. One good turn deserves another.

Seems like a definition for butt hurt does it not?

[fightingsioux4life]

Just now, Bison06 said:

Many on this board deride bison fans for acting a certain way towards anything UND related. I've even heard directly and indirectly on this board that UND fans are somehow above the fray in regards to these types of discussions. Isn't it interesting that you are eluding to the fact that you aren't objectively assessing wentz, but rather saying "turnabout is fair play". It seems when the shoe is on the other foot it's ok to be specifically bias toward ndsu, but it wasn't ok when ndsu fans were doing it? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

Like I said, I have nothing against anyone on NDSU's team that makes it at the next level. That is always a tremendous accomplishment, especially for a kid from an FCS or lower school. I just take exception to the idea that we are supposed to be all nice and sweet and objective towards NDSU and their alums on our own discussion forum when the same thing does NOT take place on Bisonville.

Rivals are going to be biased against each other, that is the nature of the beast. Oh wait, that's right, your REAL rival now is SDSU and that stupid piece of crap Dakota Marker Trophy you play for every year. Sorry for the confusion.

[fightingsioux4life]

4 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Seems like a definition for butt hurt does it not?

No, it's simply dishing it out and not just taking it. Especially on a forum called siouxsports.com....not to be confused with Bisonville.

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Like I said, I have nothing against anyone on NDSU's team that makes it at the next level. That is always a tremendous accomplishment, especially for a kid from an FCS or lower school. I just take exception to the idea that we are supposed to be all nice and sweet and objective towards NDSU and their alums on our own discussion forum when the same thing does NOT take place on Bisonville.

Rivals are going to be biased against each other, that is the nature of the beast. Oh wait, that's right, your REAL rival now is SDSU and that stupid piece of crap Dakota Marker Trophy you play for every year. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm certainly not asking anyone to be a wentz cheerleader, just don't allow your ndsu hatred to lead you to say ridiculous things like "he will be decimated at the next level", "this is the most overrated QB class in a decade". I realize you didn't specifically say either of those, but you and others aligned yourself with that side of the argument. Both of those things could turn out to be true, but there is literally no evidence to support such a stance.