NCAA To Sanction UND if School Does Not Adopt New Nickname

[darell1976]

You sound like the people who said the NCCA would never be able to force UND to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname.  How'd that turn out?  They have already stated that it very well could end with UND facing sanctions and yet you're still going to go with it will never happen?  Something about "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it" or something like that...?

 

Don't forget how the NCAA could never disrupt the state law that stated UND had to remain the Fighting Sioux, again how did that turn out.

[darell1976]

Are the no nickname crowd worried that UND will turn out like GF Central? Where all the Redskin cheering has stopped and all you hear is Knights, Knights, Knights; where all the merchandising is not of an Indian chief but of a Knight? Well as you can see from any retailer the Sioux merchandising is all but gone, very little remain. Fans aren't united in saying "Go Sioux", its maybe 50-50. Reality is kicking in and the Sioux name and logo is disappearing except in the history books. 

[Cratter]

The ncaa never forced UND to stop fighting Sioux.  UND chose to.  UND can be the fighting Sioux tomorrow if they wanted. 

But the people of the state realized the consequences and voted to get rid of it. 

[The Sicatoka]

Are the no nickname crowd worried that UND will turn out like GF Central? Where all the Redskin cheering has stopped and all you hear is Knights,

Yes. That's part of it. 

The ncaa never forced UND to stop fighting Sioux.  UND chose to.  UND can be the fighting Sioux tomorrow if they wanted. 

But the people of the state realized the consequences and voted to get rid of it. 

That's called "Prudence", also described as wisdom, the ability to judge between actions with regard to appropriate actions at a given time. It along with Justice, Temperance, and Courage make up the four cardinal virtues. 

[Sioux>Bison]

(sigh).  Once again North Dakota crowd, can you please remember to add the part where they actually picked a new nickname?  You forgot that MAJOR part of the equation.  

They didn't say FU to the NCAA and stay Stanford or stay Marquette.  But I know, we are better than Stanford.  

well Stanford did pick a lame color and a tree for a logo and nickname. I would say this is as bad as not picking one at all. You don't hear anything but Stanford when you hear about.... Stanford.

why are you still on this forum spreading a bunch of fear? Are you president Kelley? You people are really digging deep to say that the NCAA will sanction UND further for the fans expressing their first amendment right.

[jdub27]

You people are really digging deep to say that the NCAA will sanction UND further for the fans expressing their first amendment right.

That's the argument you're going to go with? They aren't preventing anyone from doing anything, however when you are a member of a private club, you are subject to their rules.

[82SiouxGuy]

well Stanford did pick a lame color and a tree for a logo and nickname. I would say this is as bad as not picking one at all. You don't hear anything but Stanford when you hear about.... Stanford.

why are you still on this forum spreading a bunch of fear? Are you president Kelley? You people are really digging deep to say that the NCAA will sanction UND further for the fans expressing their first amendment right.

Stanford is one of the best known schools in the country, and they don't base their reputation on sports. Not exactly a good comparison for the University of North Dakota. But a whole lot of people still know that they are the Cardinal.

Yelling Sioux at a sporting event is not protected by the First Amendment.

[bigskyvikes]

That's the argument you're going to go with?

Looks like it to me...as the court hears the slamming of the judges gavel while his honor shouts "case closed, stop wasting our time with this nonsense, have you people not heard of the 1st amendment"!!

 

As sioux83 yells " you can't handle the truth"!

Edited August 26, 2015 by bigskyvikes
Had to add a funny...

[82SiouxGuy]

Looks like it to me...as the court hears the slamming of the judges gavel while his honor shouts "case closed, stop wasting our time with this nonsense, have you people not heard of the 1st amendment"!!

 

As sioux83 yells " you can't handle the truth"!

Have you ever read the 1st Amendment?

First Amendment - Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition.  It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices.  It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely.  It also guarantees the right of citizens to assemble peaceably and to petition their government.   

It doesn't say anything about schools, or organizations such as the NCAA, limiting speech in some way. As a matter of fact, the courts have upheld multiple cases where schools have limited speech.

[4evrSIOUX]

Do you really think the UND administration or NCAA are going subject themselves to the scrutiny they would get for doing something as stupid as telling fans what they can cheer? Twitter, Facebook, etc. would blow up and it would probably make national news! ..and not in a good way!  How would that work for student and/or athlete recruitment? Not happening!

[jdub27]

Do you really think the UND administration or NCAA are going subject themselves to the scrutiny they would get for doing something as stupid as telling fans what they can cheer? Twitter, Facebook, etc. would blow up and it would probably make national news! ..and not in a good way!  How would that work for student and/or athlete recruitment? Not happening!

Or something crazy like being hypocritical and having double standards on what is and isn't acceptable? The NCAA doesn't care and their members gave them that power. Until the P5 takes their ball and moves on, the NCAA is going to do what it wants.  Where else are student athletes going to go?

Fact of the matter is, the NCAA won't tell UND fans what they can and can't do.  What they may and very will likely do (and have already alluded to) is tell them about consequences that will come from them acting as if the Fighting Sioux is still the nickname of the school (and UND is complicit in the deal by selecting "no nickname"). Laying out consequences for doing something is not the same as telling someone what they can and can't do.  Don't believe it? It is exact same play they used to get UND to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname, UND was not forced by the NCAA to do so.

[bigskyvikes]

 

Have you ever read the 1st Amendment?

It doesn't say anything about schools, or organizations such as the NCAA, limiting speech in some way. As a matter of fact, the courts have upheld multiple cases where schools have limited speech.

Just copied this, did you chew him out?

well Stanford did pick a lame color and a tree for a logo and nickname. I would say this is as bad as not picking one at all. You don't hear anything but Stanford when you hear about.... Stanford.

why are you still on this forum spreading a bunch of fear? Are you president Kelley? You people are really digging deep to say that the NCAA will sanction UND further for the fans expressing their *****first amendment right.*****

Because I agree with what he is saying

Edited August 26, 2015 by bigskyvikes

[82SiouxGuy]

Do you really think the UND administration or NCAA are going subject themselves to the scrutiny they would get for doing something as stupid as telling fans what they can cheer? Twitter, Facebook, etc. would blow up and it would probably make national news! ..and not in a good way!  How would that work for student and/or athlete recruitment? Not happening!

The NCAA wouldn't say a word to the fans. They would tell UND that by not choosing a new nickname the school obviously hasn't done enough to move away from the Fighting Sioux nickname. Their chosen option would be to put UND back on the same sanctions as they would have been on if they had kept the Fighting Sioux nickname. And UND wouldn't tell the fans what they can cheer. If the NCAA puts UND back on sanctions, UND would move quickly to choose a new nickname to get off sanctions. Yell Sioux all you want, no one is going to tell you to stop (other than the people that think it is disrespectful to yell anything during the National Anthem).

[82SiouxGuy]

Just copied this, did you chew him out?

 

All you had to do was read 2 more posts to see my response, which was to tell him that yelling Sioux at a sporting event was not protected by the First Amendment.

Are you claiming that I chewed you out by asking a simple question? Or that I chewed you out by quoting the First Amendment? Or that I chewed you out by providing more information about the First Amendment and how it applies?

[MafiaMan]

(sigh).  Once again North Dakota crowd, can you please remember to add the part where they actually picked a new nickname?  You forgot that MAJOR part of the equation.  

They didn't say FU to the NCAA and stay Stanford or stay Marquette.  But I know, we are better than Stanford.  

I might suggest that Stanford picking a new tree nickname and logo may have indeed been a big FU to elitist academia nuts and the NCAA...

[jdub27]

I might suggest that Stanford picking a new tree nickname and logo might have indeed been a big FU to elitist academia nuts and the NCAA...

I'd counter that Stanford is a bastion for elitist academia nuts. 

[homer]

Do you really think the UND administration or NCAA are going subject themselves to the scrutiny they would get for doing something as stupid as telling fans what they can cheer? Twitter, Facebook, etc. would blow up and it would probably make national news! ..and not in a good way!  How would that work for student and/or athlete recruitment? Not happening!

All this has already happened.   Most people outside of UND wonder why this has drug on for 5+ years. 

[zonadub]

I might suggest that Stanford picking a new tree nickname and logo may have indeed been a big FU to elitist academia nuts and the NCAA...

Stanford changed their nickname long before the NCAA got involved.

[The Sicatoka]

If the First Amendment mattered to the NCAA, or came into play at all in this conversation, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

[The Sicatoka]

... Twitter, Facebook, etc. would blow up and it would probably make national news! ..and not in a good way!  

(First, folks, this is about Twitter and Facebook, not politics. Thank you.)

I recall a recent, what I would call repugnant, comment by "The Donald" regarding a Fox anchor. It hit the Twit and the 'book and I was sure The Donald was cooked because of the (faux) "outrage" exploding there. Instead, The Donald has shot up even higher in the polls. 

I don't view the Twit or the 'book as much more than the end stool at the corner bar. Lots of loud aggrandizing can be witnessed, but little comes of it. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by The Sicatoka

[UNDBIZ]

 

 

Except academic institutions often do react to the dozen tweeters, unfortunately.  And when that happens, it validates them.  See the springfest t-shirts incident,  "rape culture" that has taken over every campus, and other feminist causes.

There's something going on with the quote function for me, this was in response to Sica.

Edited August 26, 2015 by UNDBIZ

[petey23]

Or something crazy like being hypocritical and having double standards on what is and isn't acceptable? The NCAA doesn't care and their members gave them that power. Until the P5 takes their ball and moves on, the NCAA is going to do what it wants.  Where else are student athletes going to go?

Fact of the matter is, the NCAA won't tell UND fans what they can and can't do.  What they may and very will likely do (and have already alluded to) is tell them about consequences that will come from them acting as if the Fighting Sioux is still the nickname of the school (and UND is complicit in the deal by selecting "no nickname"). Laying out consequences for doing something is not the same as telling someone what they can and can't do.  Don't believe it? It is exact same play they used to get UND to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname, UND was not forced by the NCAA to do so.

What if UND chooses a !@#!$, completely unacceptable nickname of which currently make up 60% of the remaining selections. Is UND complicit then in choosing a name so bad that the UND fans continue on as if we hadn't chose a name and/or continue to refer to UND as the Sioux?

[Teeder11]

What if UND chooses a !@#!$, completely unacceptable nickname of which currently make up 60% of the remaining selections. Is UND complicit then in choosing a name so bad that the UND fans continue on as if we hadn't chose a name and/or continue to refer to UND as the Sioux?

I would say yes.  That would seem as purposeful in undermining the spirit of the settlement as would going with no nickname. Just my two pennies.

[petey23]

I would say yes.  That would seem as purposeful in undermining the spirit of the settlement as would going with no nickname. Just my two pennies.

So President Kelley needs remove Sun Dogs, Nodaks, and Fighting Hawks or UND could face NCAA sanctions.

See how this works?

[GeauxSioux]

What if UND chooses a !@#!$, completely unacceptable nickname of which currently make up 60% of the remaining selections. Is UND complicit then in choosing a name so bad that the UND fans continue on as if we hadn't chose a name and/or continue to refer to UND as the Sioux?

See my post from this morning where I kind of took that direction... http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/20420-predict-the-new-nickname/?do=findComment&comment=805072

Not that the name was so bad, just that saying Nodak is like saying North Dakota, which is what some of the no nicknames want.